[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Arcadenik]

How about pressing the shield button as soon as you input B or Side B? I think there's a long enough delay before they fire to make that plausible.

EDIT: Holy cow, KumaOso surpassed me in the post count for this thread! *bows down*

Seriously though, you've done some serious posting, man.

But pressing the shield button makes Samus stop charging and then she stores the amount of power she was charging... and then if you press the B button again, she resumes charging. I believe you can do that with DK's punch and Lucario's sphere, too.

@ BKupa... here is the link.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I disagree. If that were the case, Samus and Ness wouldn't have even been in the original because, in Japan, Metroid's barely a blip on the radar while Earthbound tanked spectacularly in the US despite a strong ad campaign and gift promotion from NOA.

Fun Fact: Super Metroid did better in Japan than in America.

Anyway people don't hate Samus and Ness. They might have never heard of them, but there's no animosity towards them like there is for Tingle.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toise... about Tingle, surely by now there are many younger gamers whose first Zelda game might be Twilight Princess and they probably don't know who Tingle is except from his appearance in Brawl and would be unbiased toward him so if they unlock Tingle in SSB4, they wouldn't be butthurt like most older gamers would be.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@Arc: If someone's unfamiliar with something, you can't take their current opinion into account. You have to deduce what their response will be afterward. If kids didn't like him in Majora's Mask through Minish Cap, what makes you think they'll suddenly think he's cool now that he's in Smash?

 

[Arcadenik]

@Arc: If someone's unfamiliar with something, you can't take their current opinion into account. You have to deduce what their response will be afterward. If kids didn't like him in Majora's Mask through Minish Cap, what makes you think they'll suddenly think he's cool now that he's in Smash?

That's not what I meant. The older gamers, the ones who played MM through TMC, didn't like him so they won't like it if Tingle was in SSB4, even if he plays good. The younger gamers, the ones who played PH and TP, don't know who Tingle is and won't have any feelings toward him if he showed up in SSB4. They would see Tingle firsthand and they would decide if they liked him or not based on how Tingle is like in SSB4, not based on how Tingle was like in past Zelda games.

I didn't know who Ness and Captain Falcon were before I played SSB. I like Ness but not Captain Falcon based on how they were like in all three games. It is the same thing with Marth and Roy in Melee. American gamers didn't know who they were before they showed up in Melee and they liked both characters based on how they were like in Melee.

 

[Big-Cat]

What's wrong with stamina?

Also, how would Samus fake out her projectiles? I mean, she already has B for Charge Shot and Side B for Missile... so what button(s) would I need to press to fake out?

Stamina forces you to swap Pokemon.

When you fire your projectiles, you can press B again to cancel the attack. Note, you still retain charge for the charge shot. Basically, you press B when Samus is just about to fire.

@Flyin'
I don't post much else except here. I spend more time posting at SRK.

 

[Starphoenix]

That's not what I meant. The older gamers, the ones who played MM through TMC, didn't like him so they won't like it if Tingle was in SSB4, even if he plays good. The younger gamers, the ones who played PH and TP, don't know who Tingle is and won't have any feelings toward him if he showed up in SSB4. They would see Tingle firsthand and they would decide if they liked him or not based on how Tingle is like in SSB4, not based on how Tingle was like in past Zelda games.

If "new gamers" do not even know who he is then why even bother adding him? Especially when many of those who would recognize him despise him.

I didn't know who Ness and Captain Falcon were before I played SSB. I like Ness but not Captain Falcon based on how they were like in all three games. It is the same thing with Marth and Roy in Melee. American gamers didn't know who they were before they showed up in Melee and they liked both characters based on how they were like in Melee.

To my knowledge no one is saying Tingle would not get in due to being some obscure character. Tingle is out there, he is known by a fairly large segment of gamers. People simply hate him.

You also take for granted that Majora's Mask is readily available on the Virtual Console. It wouldn't be difficult to imagine little Jimmy or Jane haphazardly blowing 1000 WiiPoints on "that old Zelda game"; he isn't that obscure.

 

[SmashChu]

I disagree. If that were the case, Samus and Ness wouldn't have even been in the original because, in Japan, Metroid's barely a blip on the radar while Earthbound tanked spectacularly in the US despite a strong ad campaign and gift promotion from NOA.

There is a difference. Samus and Ness aren't hated. Tingle is hated.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fun Fact: Super Metroid did better in Japan than in America.

Anyway people don't hate Samus and Ness. They might have never heard of them, but there's no animosity towards them like there is for Tingle.

They don't hate them, sure, but the arguement is that characters can be excluded passed on not being popular in certain regions and those two go against that.

Add in: See, that's the thing, the hatred towards Tingle couldn't possibly be strong to negate sales of a Smash Bros game. Yes, North America turned down Tingle's Ruby Rupee Land but despite tripping, the abscence of Ridley/Megaman/*insert character here*, crappy online, Ganondorf not getting a sword, ROB, the removal of character based break the targets, the removal of Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, l-canceling, most true combos, and wavedashing etc Brawl still sold more copies than Melee did its lifetime in only about 2 1/2 months. With that being said, Tingle would have to somehow be worse than all of these combined in order to decrease the sales of SSB4 if he were playable.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

That's not what I meant. The older gamers, the ones who played MM through TMC, didn't like him so they won't like it if Tingle was in SSB4, even if he plays good. The younger gamers, the ones who played PH and TP, don't know who Tingle is and won't have any feelings toward him if he showed up in SSB4. They would see Tingle firsthand and they would decide if they liked him or not based on how Tingle is like in SSB4, not based on how Tingle was like in past Zelda games.

I know what you meant. I'm asking why people introduced to Tingle in SSB4 would feel any differently than people introduced to Tingle from Zelda games. Because he's playable? Sure, that might earn him a few fans, but most people will still be turned off by his character design. He's still a strange man in silly tights, and now you can't avoid him.

They don't hate them, sure, but the arguement is that characters can be excluded passed on not being popular in certain regions and those two go against that.

How do they go against that? Samus and Ness were always popular in Japan. The worst they have it is that they're not mainstream like Mario and Pikachu.

Add in: See, that's the thing, the hatred towards Tingle couldn't possibly be strong to negate sales of a Smash Bros game. Yes, North America turned down Tingle's Ruby Rupee Land but despite tripping, the abscence of Ridley/Megaman/*insert character here*, crappy online, Ganondorf not getting a sword, ROB, the removal of character based break the targets, the removal of l-canceling, most true combos, and wavedashing etc Brawl still sold more copies than Melee did its lifetime in only about 2 1/2 months. With that being said, Tingle would have to somehow be worse than all of these combined in order to decrease the sales of SSB4 if he were playable.

No, of course not. No single fault will noticeably hurt sales because there's tons of great content to make up for it.

But that doesn't mean adding a character hated by the biggest region is a good idea. Sakurai is trying to please fans rather than disgust them. Tingle is counterproductive to that goal, and to be honest he's one of the only characters (maybe even the only one) who manages to pull that off.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Seriously though, what kind of moveset would Tingle have anyway?

He has never really shown any way of power or anything; even Jigglypuff shows power.
Should he ever be added into Smash Brothers 4, he would most likely end up in the lower to lowest tiers.

Besides, all of the characters in Brawl have looks. Tingle, on the other hand, is:

a strange man in silly tights

He might get fans, but not many.

 

[Fatmanonice]

To be completely honest with ourselves, probably 50% of the people who buy the Smash Bros games only know half or less of the playable character outside of Smash. We may have our discussions on this forum but we are definately not the majority. Truth be told, most people probably don't care who's added and are more concerned about who doesn't get added.

 

[Starphoenix]

To be completely honest with ourselves, probably 50% of the people who buy the Smash Bros games only know half or less of the playable character outside of Smash. We may have our discussions on this forum but we are definately not the majority. Truth be told, most people probably don't care who's added and are more concerned about who doesn't get added.

True, but that does not mean Sakurai should tick off the fans who do know who he is.

 

[Big-Cat]

No single fault will noticeably hurt sales because there's tons of great content to make up for it.

A game may have great sales, but that doesn't mean the customers are completely satisfied. Think of how many people were expecting Brawl to improve on what's worked gameplay wise, increase the amount of characters, and more to only be disappointed. This can lead to a decrease of sales in the sequel.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I think I get what Toise is saying. Every person who plays Zelda and sees Tingle sevelops an opinion of him. if that opinion goes to somethign like a 2:1 hate:love ratio (this is a hypthetical ratio of course).

Now In smash, If we see this same character doing the same things he does in Zelda (along with some obscure moves thrown in to complete his moveset), but we don;t know eho he is the why would that ratio change much from the Zelda 2:1?

And Kuma's right, Despite Brawl being successful, a lot of people are unhappy with the game, have gone through extravagant lengths to hack it (more so than most games...I think) and are wary of getting SSB4. (Yes I have seen and heard people state that they will never buy another smash game after the "atrcoity" of Brawl)

 

[Arcadenik]

The reason why most people are unhappy with Brawl is because they had unrealistic expectations for Brawl and they didn't like what reality gave them.

 

[Cyn]

The reason why most people are unhappy with Brawl is because they had unrealistic expectations for Brawl and they didn't like what reality gave them.

i cant speak for everyone else but my expectations were pretty much met as far as game play goes. the thing that kind of f'd up the gameplay for me was some of the extras like tripping for one thing, everything else for me is a side note because i dont really play unless i have someone else to play with (after i finished all the single player modes there was nothing left). but i guess that just means they really need to put more heart into the single player modes to draw me in and everyone like me.

Originally posted by Omnicron: Seriously though, what kind of moveset would Tingle have anyway?

He has never really shown any way of power or anything; even Jigglypuff shows power.
Should he ever be added into Smash Brothers 4, he would most likely end up in the lower to lowest tiers.

Besides, all of the characters in Brawl have looks. Tingle, on the other hand, is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToiseOfChoice
a strange man in silly tights

He might get fans, but not many.

THANK YOU!!! i couldnt agree more

 

[Arcadenik]

Omnicron, the reason why you can't imagine what kind of moveset Tingle would have and haven't seen Tingle's power is because they are all in Tingle's games, not Zelda games.

Toise, are you saying a man in tights wouldn't fit right in the crowd with plumbers, princesses, pink puffballs, psychic kids, furries, an electric rat, a stick figure, a NES peripheral, and an astronaut with flower soldiers? Really.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The reason why most people are unhappy with Brawl is because they had unrealistic expectations for Brawl and they didn't like what reality gave them.

Edit; Arcandenik, this isn't against you or anything. I just have the habit to rant when seeing things like this.

Oh great; Another person going "LOL YOU OVERHYPED YOURSELVES" YEAH; THAT'S WHAT WE NEEDED. But in a more serious matter upon this post:

No. My character roster hopes were actually always personally around a 35-40 Area, and I had a list of top newcomers I wanted. My most wanted (Lucas) Did make it in the game. Sure my second (Claus/The MM) Didn't; But I still have the alt costume to lean back upon. The roster was pretty fine...Just VERY Odd in the New Franchise area considering all we got there was Olimar...And 4 stages. My Music was very awesome despite not being able to put songs from a franchise together, like having Snowman on onett which is WHERE IT FITS. I loved some of the alternate music in brawl.

The stage variety is more than most people give it credit for. While not every stage is great (I'm looking at you Spear Pillar) It's altogether so much fun, even in the competitive area. When I play doubles, FD Isn't overpicked so in a re-cap I get:
-My most wanted character to brawl as.
-Awesome music
-Awesome starter's like Halberd and Yoshi's Island.

Is that my problem with Brawl? Of course not. My problems come from the fact of how they spent SIXTY Percent of the time not even working on the actual core of the game or features that have potential. Seriously, SSE? You want me to go on a rant on it?

This would be fine If everything else was established but It's not. We're on a horrible server with mostly mediocore online (Try playing a doubles match online; Tell me It's "Fun" Dealing with lag) I mean I knew there was gonna be lag but not THIS Bad. We don't even have an online ranking board.

Then let's see Stage Builder; I even thought this wouldn't be that advanced, but even the slightest things weren't all so good at pleasing. You can't even change what music you have after making the stage. Event Matches were MOSTLY A downgrade. Pointless things similar to SSE Got overworked too...Who the heck is going to use 700 Stickers?

Battle system was more like Smash 64...I actually kinda like this, but not balancing enough (lol mk), footstool jump, and Tripping.

So while I could go on more, I won't. Do I like brawl? Yes. Do I think there could easily be things improved in the next installment and that should regardless of people going "lol brawl just wusnt u expected"? Yes. I don't know about you guys but I've actually been playing it a lot during this threads life and I can see these flaws while discussing new ideas.

Oh, and a lot of people actually didn't bring there expectations up that high. You'd be surprised.

Finally to finish this off;

A game may have great sales, but that doesn't mean the customers are completely satisfied. Think of how many people were expecting Brawl to improve on what's worked gameplay wise, increase the amount of characters, and more to only be disappointed. This can lead to a decrease of sales in the sequel.

Quote. Of. Win. Things like this CAN Damage future sales. People want better Online, Stage Builder, etc. Not stickers and a story you'll only play through once that barely has anything to do with actually smashing.

Oh, end of that post? Nope.

To be completely honest with ourselves, probably 50% of the people who buy the Smash Bros games only know half or less of the playable character outside of Smash. We may have our discussions on this forum but we are definately not the majority. Truth be told, most people probably don't care who's added and are more concerned about who doesn't get added.

Actually you'd be pretty surprised. While not that many of my friends knew who Lucas or G&W Were, a lot of them knew most of the newcomers. The thing is: Smash bros is also about opening the gates to nintendo's other games. Think of what Lucas/Ness did for Mother/Earthbound with the representation in smash. (They need to release all 3 mother games in the US already) Think of what Marth/Roy did with FE Coming to the states.

Truth be told about; Tingle is rather counter-productive in the states to this. Tingle isn't really a character someone would want to play as. I'll show an example here with other possible newcomers:

"DUDE! I'M GONNA TRY OUT ISAAC! HE USES MAGIC AND A SWORD!"
"I'LL BEAT YOU ALL WITH BOWSER JR! HIS PAINTBRUSH IS SO AWESOME AND SO COOL AND STUFF"
"MY CHARACTER CLAUS HAS MAGIC AND A SWORD...AND A CANNON ATTACHED TO HIS HAND."
"HAHA YOU GUYS ARE GONNA GET OWNED BY TINGLE! HE SPREADS FLOWERS LOL"
Other 3 dudes not as tingle: "...O_o"

It gives a negative outcome in one region; While he is the most likely LoZ Newcomer, It's a very shaky series. It's one of the least where we know who comes next unlike Mother, F-Zero, Metroid, etc, which is the point I'm trying to get across (Unsure about toise, smashchu, etc)

 

[Peach_rules]

Hope they put knuckles in it or something :D
Make something better than the Smash ball.

There is nothing better than the smash ball :|


I tried to say that as seriously as possible!

 

[Pieman0920]

Then let's see Stage Builder; I even thought this wouldn't be that advanced, but even the slightest things weren't all so good at pleasing. You can't even change what music you have after making the stage. Event Matches were MOSTLY A downgrade. Pointless things similar to SSE Got overworked too...Who the heck is going to use 700 Stickers?

You can change the music.

Truth be told about; Tingle is rather counter-productive in the states to this. Tingle isn't really a character someone would want to play as. I'll show an example here with other possible newcomers:

"DUDE! I'M GONNA TRY OUT ISAAC! HE USES MAGIC AND A SWORD!"
"I'LL BEAT YOU ALL WITH BOWSER JR! HIS PAINTBRUSH IS SO AWESOME AND SO COOL AND STUFF"
"MY CHARACTER CLAUS HAS MAGIC AND A SWORD...AND A CANNON ATTACHED TO HIS HAND."
"HAHA YOU GUYS ARE GONNA GET OWNED BY TINGLE! HE SPREADS FLOWERS LOL"
Other 3 dudes not as tingle: "...O_o"

It gives a negative outcome in one region; While he is the most likely LoZ Newcomer, It's a very shaky series. It's one of the least where we know who comes next unlike Mother, F-Zero, Metroid, etc, which is the point I'm trying to get across (Unsure about toise, smashchu, etc)

Same thing applies to Jigglypuff, Pichu, or heck even Kirby. There are a good deal of characters in Smash that don't look particularly cool, but they still get in. And heck, there's a certain satisfaction of beating your friends up with a character they can't even conceive as being a threat. While I think there could be a valid point saying that the Americas don't like him all too much, this point doesn't make sense when you look at what Smash has already done.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You can change the music.

I worded that awfully;
You see how Past Stages only have two songs? Now then: Why is it that I can't take songs from the same series (New Pork City stage music) and put them on a different stage (Onett) of the same series?

Better?

Same thing applies to Jigglypuff, Pichu, or heck even Kirby.

But the first two got in DUE to people liking them and aren't viewed as odd (Well, at least not in there show/series/game/potato)

There are a good deal of characters in Smash that don't look particularly cool, but they still get in.

Particularly cool =/= A 35 Year old fairy with a hate fanbase. Sure some might not view Bowser Jr as "Particularly Cool" But It helps advertise his game and open them up to more of nintendo and whatnot, which was the deep point of the example.

And heck, there's a certain satisfaction of beating your friends up with a character they can't even conceive as being a threat.

Catharsis ain't a good excuse. (quoted from toise)

While I think there could be a valid point saying that the Americas don't like him all too much, this point doesn't make sense when you look at what Smash has already done.

Negative Advertisement/Appeal of the character for starters?

You can dig deep down in all the characters of smash; But nothing stands out as much as tingle. People aren't going to get a different view of him because he's in smash. Remember one of Sakurai's "Rules" - "A character people would want to play as"

So really; Until we get some news, tingle's chances are up in the air, along with the rest of LoZ.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Particularly cool =/= A 35 Year old fairy with a hate fanbase. Sure some might not view Bowser Jr as "Particularly Cool" But It helps advertise his game and open them up to more of nintendo and whatnot, which was the deep point of the example.

It's a matter of opinion whether or not one thinks Tingle is "cool". I don't really care either way, though. Tingle does advertise Nintendo games, however.

Catharsis ain't a good excuse. (quoted from toise)

Catharsis would be wanting Tingle in the game just to beat him up. If you want to use him to beat your friends, that's just called "rubbing it in their faces".

Also, you were around for the pre-Brawl period, weren't you? The amount of speculation/conspiracy/hype was tremendous! Some people were crushed when certain things didn't turn out (including me ).

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Omnicron, the reason why you can't imagine what kind of moveset Tingle would have and haven't seen Tingle's power is because they are all in Tingle's games, not Zelda games.

And what exactly would the attacks be, hm? If he did have attacks, they wouldn't be of much use. Would he have any spikes? Meteor smashes?

plumbers

Mario and Luigi are too popular.

princesses

Popular again.

pink puffballs

Kirby = Main character. Jigglypuff = Very popular, especially in Japan

psychic kids

Ness = Main character. Lucas = Main character

furries

lol,
Fox = Main character. Falco = Popular. Wolf = Main antagonist.

an electric rat

One of the first Pokemon ever introduced, popular.

a stick figure

Revive a character.

a NES peripheral

Nintendo trying to revive a series or at least revive the character.

and an astronaut with flower soldiers?

Olimar = Main character.

Tingle has no where near as many fans as these characters do, and he is a rather small character in the Zelda series, Sakurai most likely would not add him.

 

[flyinfilipino]

And what exactly would the attacks be, hm? If he did have attacks, they wouldn't be of much use. Would he have any spikes? Meteor smashes?

Tingle has no where near as many fans as these characters do, and he is a rather small character in the Zelda series, Sakurai most likely would not add him.

How many other characters in Smash had "spikes" and "meteor smashes" in their games? I'm no expert on Tingle or his games, but I do know that if characters like Fox, Falco, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Sheik, R.O.B., and Mr. Game and Watch can be given almost completely made-up movesets, surely Tingle can be given the same treatment.

Tingle is a well-known character among Legend of Zelda fans.

 

[Wizzerd]

How many other characters in Smash had "spikes" and "meteor smashes" in their games? I'm no expert on Tingle or his games, but I do know that if characters like Fox, Falco, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Sheik, R.O.B., and Mr. Game and Watch can be given almost completely made-up movesets, surely Tingle can be given the same treatment.

Totally, dude. And the thing is, his moveset doesn't even need to be made up, like many other characters. Even in his NPC role in Wind Waker, he showed how he can fight with Tingle Bombs, Tingle Balloons and the Tingle Shield- I mean, how many other side characters show moveset potential? In Rosy Rupeeland, he can engage in crazy bar fights with enemies and hire bodyguards to delegate fighting to. I haven't played Color Changing Tingle's Love Balloon Trip (Though I may import it), but I'm sure it shows even more potential.

I'm not even trying to argue that Tingle should be in. I'm only saying that, as always, moveset potential is a BAD ARGUMENT.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Tingle is a well-known character among Legend of Zelda fans.

Maybe, but is he popular? Do enough people like him?

I do, personally.

 

[Calzum!]

Maybe, but is he popular? Do enough people like him?

I do, personally.

nobody likes Tingle
smash needs moar greyfox

 

[Arcadenik]

Tingle is very popular in Japan. Tingle is the main character of his own games. Tingle would probably have his own world icon (Rupee) instead of the Triforce like the Zelda characters. That said, he would still be grouped with them on the character select screen anyway as the "5th Zelda character". I doubt anyone from the Zelda games except maybe Toon Zelda would get in anyway.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Totally, dude. And the thing is, his moveset doesn't even need to be made up, like many other characters. Even in his NPC role in Wind Waker, he showed how he can fight with Tingle Bombs, Tingle Balloons and the Tingle Shield- I mean, how many other side characters show moveset potential? In Rosy Rupeeland, he can engage in crazy bar fights with enemies and hire bodyguards to delegate fighting to. I haven't played Color Changing Tingle's Love Balloon Trip (Though I may import it), but I'm sure it shows even more potential.

I'm not even trying to argue that Tingle should be in. I'm only saying that, as always, moveset potential is a BAD ARGUMENT.

Just to add to this, there are a lot of characters in Brawl where more than 90% of their moves were made up for Smash Bros. This list would include:

1. Marth
2. Ganondorf
3. Donkey Kong
4. Wario
5. Luigi
6. Bowser
7. Pit
8. ROB
9. Ice Climbers
10. Olimar
11. Fox
12. Falco
14. Wolf
15. Captain Falcon
16. Zero Suit Samus
17. Ike
18. Zelda

Basically, the only characters who have more than half of their moves from their respective games are:

1. Mario
2. Mr. Game and Watch
3. Kirby
4. Metaknight
5. Sonic

Just for the sake of information, these are the characters that have at least 25%-

1. Peach
2. Diddy Kong
3. Yoshi
4. Link
5. Toon Link
6. Samus
7. King Dedede
8. Pikachu
9. Squirtle
10. Ivysaur
11. Charizard
12. Lucario
13. Jigglypuff
14. Lucas
15. Ness
16. Snake

All in all, the ratio is 18/5/16 out of 39 which, percentage wise would be:

About 46% for characters whose movesets are or are almost completely made up.

About 13% for characters whose movesets are at least half from their games.

About 41% for characters whose movesets are between 25-49% from their respective games.

 

[SmashChu]

Add in: See, that's the thing, the hatred towards Tingle couldn't possibly be strong to negate sales of a Smash Bros game. Yes, North America turned down Tingle's Ruby Rupee Land but despite tripping, the abscence of Ridley/Megaman/*insert character here*, crappy online, Ganondorf not getting a sword, ROB, the removal of character based break the targets, the removal of Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, l-canceling, most true combos, and wavedashing etc Brawl still sold more copies than Melee did its lifetime in only about 2 1/2 months. With that being said, Tingle would have to somehow be worse than all of these combined in order to decrease the sales of SSB4 if he were playable.

First, there has never been a character added that people hate. Krystal would have been the closest thing to that if she got in.

Also, Toise explained it really well again. Why add a character people hate.

To be completely honest with ourselves, probably 50% of the people who buy the Smash Bros games only know half or less of the playable character outside of Smash. We may have our discussions on this forum but we are definately not the majority. Truth be told, most people probably don't care who's added and are more concerned about who doesn't get added.

Just because people don't know him, does mean they'd like him or like the addition. If Zelda fans hate Tingle, then new fans would probably hate him as well.

And Kuma's right, Despite Brawl being successful, a lot of people are unhappy with the game, have gone through extravagant lengths to hack it (more so than most games...I think) and are wary of getting SSB4. (Yes I have seen and heard people state that they will never buy another smash game after the "atrcoity" of Brawl)

Every game that is hackable (and popular with a large enough group of people) gets hacked. This is no surprise. The hacks are to add content people may have wanted in the game. I don't think a lot of people wanted Lucas to look like Jimmy Neutron.

Toise, are you saying a man in tights wouldn't fit right in the crowd with plumbers, princesses, pink puffballs, psychic kids, furries, an electric rat, a stick figure, a NES peripheral, and an astronaut with flower soldiers? Really.

I don't think he;s saying that. He may be saying that is a reason people will still dislike Tingle even if he's a character in Smash.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

It's a matter of opinion whether or not one thinks Tingle is "cool". I don't really care either way, though. Tingle does advertise Nintendo games, however.

It's a matter of opinion, inwhich, america doesn't see that as plausible. America is the main central of Smash Games sales wise. Sakurai is known to try and please fans. How would Tingle accomplish that?

Answer: He wouldn't. As stated you would be pretty surprised to see how many people care for newcomers. A lot of people I know are usually playing with a newcomer, whether It be Ike, Meta-Knight, Lucario, Pit, Olimar, Lucas, etc.

Catharsis would be wanting Tingle in the game just to beat him up. If you want to use him to beat your friends, that's just called "rubbing it in their faces".

As I said; It's still not a good reason to add him in.

Also, you were around for the pre-Brawl period, weren't you? The amount of speculation/conspiracy/hype was tremendous! Some people were crushed when certain things didn't turn out (including me ).

I was around during the Pre-Brawl period: Posted on NSider and the two clones made after that. Made an account here at first mainly due to the pre-brawl speculation, Made an All is Brawl account, BrawlCentral, etc etc.

I know how crazy the speculation was. I remember the day Smashville was announced and to put it shortly; I remember a lot. I know how NSider's had ridiculous expectations (They even flamed Nintendude when he said that he thinks It's very possible for Brawl's roster to be around the same character ammount I expected) - People just lost all logic.

Brawl is still rather fun in most area's, It's just that It's problems are really unavoidable. I mean sure, online is an improvement from melee, but is it that great compared to current days? Heck; At least other nintendo games have a leaderboard.

Just throwing that out there, anyhow to add onto this previous arguement:

Mario and Luigi are too popular.

And they're from the original cast of 12 Smash bros characters, along with the fact that they're both very important to the nintendo franchise today and basically some of the faces of nintendo's mascots even with Mii's around.

Popular again.

And an at least pretty important role in most mario games. Try: Insanely popular.

Kirby = Main character.

Also sakurai made kirby and kirby is one of nintendo's more important and better selling franchises.

Jigglypuff = Very popular, especially in Japan

And the anime role; despite not being that relevant now. 2nd most popular poke.

Ness = Main character. Lucas = Main character

Not just that but it was one of nintendo's first franchises and one of nintendo's more original/first RPG's (FE Was still a war game on the nes yes?) - And sakurai does seem to have some sympathy for the fans, as time and time again Nintendo of America screws over the mother franchise.

And Sakurai helped work on Mother 3; Let's not also forget that while the franchise may not have the greatest sales, it once again has a huge fanbase, just like how Starfox currently has 3 characters and a fourth one (Krystal) Is still surprisingly in a lot of roster's with FOUR Starfox reps!

Oh, and from what I've also aquired, mother inspired pokemon. Ness represents not only Mother 2 but Mother 1 (see: most fan art If you don't think him and ninten look similar) And mother has a rather unique cast of characters to work from anyways despite a lot of copy and pasta's each game.

/At least one of the biggest mother fans in this thread.

lol,
Fox = Main character. Falco = Popular. Wolf = Main antagonist.

Wolf isn't really the main antagonist but the true main antagonist is pretty much unworkable (lol, andross, lol)

One of the first Pokemon ever introduced, popular.

And the most popular poke at that + lolanime

Revive a character.

Considering I know a lot about G&W, I'll sum this one up shortly:
Creator of G&W Wanted him in smash (note that he died somewhere around melee's production or something like that - A tribute) G&W Played a huge role onto nintendo's history, especially handheld wise and was one of nintendo's first characters ever - You can't even try and tell me that tingle did something close to as important as that, because without him, we probably wouldn't HAVE Smash Bros. Thus why him and Sukapon are important characters to smash. (And why we need sukapon)

Oh and he had a few of those G&W Gallery games being revived back.

Nintendo trying to revive a series or at least revive the character.

More like Sakurai's "I can't believe it got in" And once again, while I don't like rob and his moveset is the only true completely idiotic moveset in my honest opinion, ROB Played a huge role in selling off consoles as an "Entertainment System"

Olimar = Main character.

And was one of nintendo's few new franchises on the gamecube that didn't tank, etc.

smash needs moar greyfox

No.

How many other characters in Smash had "spikes" and "meteor smashes" in their games?

He's simply asking how the character would incorporate that.

Fox, Falco, Wolf

Actually did outside of land battle during one of the modes of Starfox 64 from what I recall. I know assult had that thus covering wolf.

Captain Falcon

Anime wishes to have a word with you right about now.

Sheik

...IIRC Had those moves. Haven't played OoT In a while.

Mr. Game and Watch

Actually used all of his moves from certain game and watch games, like his bucket move that sucks up projectiles actually did that in his game.

R.O.B.

...I'll give you this one.

Tingle is a well-known character among Legend of Zelda fans.

This here is something true.

Totally, dude. And the thing is, his moveset doesn't even need to be made up, like many other characters. Even in his NPC role in Wind Waker, he showed how he can fight with Tingle Bombs, Tingle Balloons and the Tingle Shield- I mean, how many other side characters show moveset potential? In Rosy Rupeeland, he can engage in crazy bar fights with enemies and hire bodyguards to delegate fighting to. I haven't played Color Changing Tingle's Love Balloon Trip (Though I may import it), but I'm sure it shows even more potential.

People have been saying moveset out because of all things Sakurai gave him...He throw's out flowers and items.

Of course; Sakurai has previously denied some characters (Didn't he say something about bubbles like "It doesn't actually fight"?) for moveset, well similar. Not that It's anything holding tingle back If they make something...Not using flowers? I don't know a better way on wording it.

I'm not even trying to argue that Tingle should be in. I'm only saying that, as always, moveset potential is a BAD ARGUMENT.

Uh no; Bad arguements are:
"WE NEED MOAR GIRLS THIS PRIORITY OF X FOR BEING A GIRL > PRIORITY OF Y"
"WE NEED MOAR VILLIANS"
"WE CAN'T HAVE TOO MANY BLOO HAIRED SWORDSMEN"

etc; But It's certainly not one that works on tingle. Moveset potential for being Extremely Unique or a Lack of one can work against/for other characters tho. Hi olimar and PT. (Had other reasons other than unique; but they differ)

Anyways; my opinion on tingle is pretty neutral actually despite all those. I think he's pretty annoying, but If he got in I wouldn't mind. It's just that the LoZ Series is still really up in the air, as brawl technically added nobody new to it asides from changing younk link's name to make everyone freak out. :C

 

[Fatmanonice]

Why add a character that people hate? Because, as I already explained, there's overwelming evidence that people will still buy it anyways. It's like with the Sonic franchise; there's basically been mediocre to cry yourself to sleep bad games since Sonic Adventure 2 but the franchise is still one of the best selling in gaming. The fans have said "no more crappy cameras, no more useless additional characters, no more gimmicks, etc" but SEGA has pretty much stayed the course and the series is still going strong. Honestly, if Sonic can still be a best selling franchise after train wrecks like Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic R, and Sonic Heros, then I think Smash Bros will easily survive the addition of Tingle. I think we're giving ourselves too much credit in this situation and overlooking the developers themselves. We are the fans but the number of fans who would legitimately boycott Smash Bros is laughably low and even then they are quickly and greatly outnumbered by those who really don't care who's added as long as the game is still fun overall.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

14. Lucas

What part of Lucas's moveset was made up, FMOI?
-His B Moves are all from PSI Powers, which he has access to.
-Starstorm (lol final smashes) Is also a move one of his partner's had access to thus legitly he does, and of course wasn't "Made up"
-His Stick (Side Smash) was what he used in game as a beginning weapon. I can actually say I'm proud to have beat mother 3 with keeping that same stick on lucas.
-His U-Smash is PK Love
-His A Moves (Those squares) Actually heavily relate to his combat style and his game of how there were music battles with good timing to be able to do things like hit a 13 hit combo, or a 7...And If you're insanely good, a 16.
-His Grab is duster's rope snake which sorta screws them up twice in the story.

Yeah; I'm missing what was "Made up" In his moveset.

Why add a character that people hate? Because, as I already explained, there's overwelming evidence that people will still buy it anyways. It's like with the Sonic franchise; there's basically been mediocre to cry yourself to sleep bad games since Sonic Adventure 2 but the franchise is still one of the best selling in gaming. The fans have said "no more crappy cameras, no more useless additional characters, no more gimmicks, etc" but SEGA has pretty much stayed the course and the series is still going strong. Honestly, if Sonic can still be a best selling franchise after train wrecks like Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic R, and Sonic Heros, then I think Smash Bros will easily survive the addition of Tingle. I think we're giving ourselves too much credit in this situation and overlooking the developers themselves. We are the fans but the number of fans who would legitimately boycott Smash Bros is laughably low and even then they are quickly and greatly outnumbered by those who really don't care who's added as long as the game is still fun overall.

Thing is: Smash Bros is about fan satisfication. It seems as there's more hate for him being in smash bros than like, and quite frankly, we don't even know If Sakurai will give the series a new rep which as you've said previously Is completely debateable on It's own. There's certainly possibility of another character turning reoccuring in five years. Honestly, would tingle have had a chance in melee compared to now?

I mean; I agree he doesn't have no shot on the roster whatsoever, which was ridiculous for smashchu to say, but It certainly does count up to a disadvantage seeing the "Critera" Sakurai uses.

Basically: Will it keep him out of being playable? Probably not, up in the air currently. Is it a disadvantage? Yes.

 

[Arcadenik]

I know how crazy the speculation was. I remember the day Smashville was announced and to put it shortly; I remember a lot. I know how NSider's had ridiculous expectations (They even flamed Nintendude when he said that he thinks It's very possible for Brawl's roster to be around the same character ammount I expected) - People just lost all logic.

Irrationality knows no bounds. Just wait until SSB4 is announced in a few years. LOL

Brawl is still rather fun in most area's, It's just that It's problems are really unavoidable. I mean sure, online is an improvement from melee, but is it that great compared to current days? Heck; At least other nintendo games have a leaderboard.

Didn't Sakurai already explain why he didn't add leaderboards in Brawl? Click here for Sakurai's answer.

And Sakurai helped work on Mother 3; Let's not also forget that while the franchise may not have the greatest sales, it once again has a huge fanbase, just like how Starfox currently has 3 characters and a fourth one (Krystal) Is still surprisingly in a lot of roster's with FOUR Starfox reps!

I think it is because of two factors. One is that most fans don't want any characters to be removed at all. Second is that I think it is because Krystal is a fap fodder for furries.

Considering I know a lot about G&W, I'll sum this one up shortly:
Creator of G&W Wanted him in smash (note that he died somewhere around melee's production or something like that - A tribute) G&W Played a huge role onto nintendo's history, especially handheld wise and was one of nintendo's first characters ever - You can't even try and tell me that tingle did something close to as important as that, because without him, we probably wouldn't HAVE Smash Bros. Thus why him and Sukapon are important characters to smash. (And why we need sukapon)

Sukapon? What does he has to do with Mr. Game & Watch?

Anime wishes to have a word with you right about now.

The anime came out in 2003. Four years before the original SSB and two years before Melee. Therefore Captain Falcon's moves were made-up.

...IIRC Had those moves. Haven't played OoT In a while.

Only two moves of the whole moveset Sheik has were from OOT. Up B and Down B. Of course, it kinda made sense for him/her to use the Light Arrow since he/she is really Zelda but Zelda really used it twice. First time in TWW and second time in TP.

Of course; Sakurai has previously denied some characters (Didn't he say something about bubbles like "It doesn't actually fight"?) for moveset, well similar. Not that It's anything holding tingle back If they make something...Not using flowers? I don't know a better way on wording it.

I think Sakurai asked how could Bubbles fight if she cannot stop herself from moving around (just like in Clu Clu Land).

Uh no; Bad arguements are:
"WE NEED MOAR GIRLS THIS PRIORITY OF X FOR BEING A GIRL > PRIORITY OF Y"
"WE NEED MOAR VILLIANS"
"WE CAN'T HAVE TOO MANY BLOO HAIRED SWORDSMEN"

I agree. They are all bad arguements. I want to add one more bad argument you forgot to mention.

"WE CAN'T HAVE TOO MANY FIRST GEN POKEYMANS"

 

[DekuBoy]

Remember the hat ROB got when he was revealed for Brawl? He was a useless NES accessory, made into a great fighter. I think Tingle would gain popularity from a Smash Bros roster spot. Oh, and he's Eiji Aonuma's favourite character. Though even he knows about the character's dubious popularity...

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Just throwing that out there, anyhow to add onto this previous arguement:


And they're from the original cast of 12 Smash bros characters, along with the fact that they're both very important to the nintendo franchise today and basically some of the faces of nintendo's mascots even with Mii's around.

And an at least pretty important role in most mario games. Try: Insanely popular.

Also sakurai made kirby and kirby is one of nintendo's more important and better selling franchises.

And the anime role; despite not being that relevant now. 2nd most popular poke.

Not just that but it was one of nintendo's first franchises and one of nintendo's more original/first RPG's (FE Was still a war game on the nes yes?) - And sakurai does seem to have some sympathy for the fans, as time and time again Nintendo of America screws over the mother franchise.

And Sakurai helped work on Mother 3; Let's not also forget that while the franchise may not have the greatest sales, it once again has a huge fanbase, just like how Starfox currently has 3 characters and a fourth one (Krystal) Is still surprisingly in a lot of roster's with FOUR Starfox reps!

Oh, and from what I've also aquired, mother inspired pokemon. Ness represents not only Mother 2 but Mother 1 (see: most fan art If you don't think him and ninten look similar) And mother has a rather unique cast of characters to work from anyways despite a lot of copy and pasta's each game.

/At least one of the biggest mother fans in this thread.


Wolf isn't really the main antagonist but the true main antagonist is pretty much unworkable (lol, andross, lol)

And the most popular poke at that + lolanime

Considering I know a lot about G&W, I'll sum this one up shortly:
Creator of G&W Wanted him in smash (note that he died somewhere around melee's production or something like that - A tribute) G&W Played a huge role onto nintendo's history, especially handheld wise and was one of nintendo's first characters ever - You can't even try and tell me that tingle did something close to as important as that, because without him, we probably wouldn't HAVE Smash Bros. Thus why him and Sukapon are important characters to smash. (And why we need sukapon)

Oh and he had a few of those G&W Gallery games being revived back.

More like Sakurai's "I can't believe it got in" And once again, while I don't like rob and his moveset is the only true completely idiotic moveset in my honest opinion, ROB Played a huge role in selling off consoles as an "Entertainment System"


And was one of nintendo's few new franchises on the gamecube that didn't tank, etc.

Thank you for backing up my argument on that.

Do you think that they would come up with another SSE-esque film for SSB4?
SSE wasn't that exciting; quite a bland storyline. If they come up with a new one, they should input the idea of a universal crisis, not just in the World of Trophies.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Considering I know a lot about G&W, I'll sum this one up shortly:
Creator of G&W Wanted him in smash (note that he died somewhere around melee's production or something like that - A tribute)

I'm sorry, but lol.

Just pointing it out, Gunpei Yokoi, creator of the Game Boy, Game & Watches, designer for R.O.B., and Metroid producer, died in 1997. Smash Bros 64 came out 1999. Melee came out in the 2001. But adding Mr. Game & Watch was most certainly a tribute, as Gunpei Yokoi was a close friend and mentor for Sakurai.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What part of Lucas's moveset was made up, FMOI?
-His B Moves are all from PSI Powers, which he has access to.
-Starstorm (lol final smashes) Is also a move one of his partner's had access to thus legitly he does, and of course wasn't "Made up"
-His Stick (Side Smash) was what he used in game as a beginning weapon. I can actually say I'm proud to have beat mother 3 with keeping that same stick on lucas.
-His U-Smash is PK Love
-His A Moves (Those squares) Actually heavily relate to his combat style and his game of how there were music battles with good timing to be able to do things like hit a 13 hit combo, or a 7...And If you're insanely good, a 16.
-His Grab is duster's rope snake which sorta screws them up twice in the story.

Yeah; I'm missing what was "Made up" In his moveset.



Thing is: Smash Bros is about fan satisfication. It seems as there's more hate for him being in smash bros than like, and quite frankly, we don't even know If Sakurai will give the series a new rep which as you've said previously Is completely debateable on It's own. There's certainly possibility of another character turning reoccuring in five years. Honestly, would tingle have had a chance in melee compared to now?

I mean; I agree he doesn't have no shot on the roster whatsoever, which was ridiculous for smashchu to say, but It certainly does count up to a disadvantage seeing the "Critera" Sakurai uses.

Basically: Will it keep him out of being playable? Probably not, up in the air currently. Is it a disadvantage? Yes.

Regarding Lucas, his B moves, his usmash, and his fsmash are the only attacks that come directly from Mother 3. Everything else is not a specific attack from the games. For example, in Mother 3, the rope Snake was not used to grab enemies. In Mother 3, Lucas didn't have any kicks or punches and, even if he did, the graphic style of the Mother franchise in prevents you from seeing physical attacks in battle. Overall, most of his attacks are not specific attacks from the game. Also, I didn't count Final Smashes because I don't see them as standard because they're item triggered.

Now, take Mr. Game and Watch for example, all of his moves are characteristic of a game he's been in. His bucket is from Oil Panic, his frying pan is from Chef, his double hammer is from Mole, his single hammer is from Judge, etc.

Regarding Sakurai's "criteria" we're not entirely sure what it is. He added Dr. Mario in Melee because he liked his theme. He added Ganondorf because, physically speaking, he's designed similar to Captain Falcon. He kept King Dedede and Metaknight out of Melee because he didn't want to show bias towards his own characters. The assumption is that the three key factors are importance, popularity, and Sakurai's opinion. The first is pretty standard but it doesn't guarentee anything, the second is still highly questionable, and, of course, Sakurai isn't entirely straight forward about who he picks or, more importantly, why.

 

[DekuBoy]

Umm.... Sorry to be off topic but I don't know if this has been discussed. It's a new Pokemon for Wii and it looks........ interesting to say the least.

http://http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=225518?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSS