[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[BigDaddy4]

Something tells me **** like brawl+ and BBrawl might give Sakurai the motivation NOT to make SSB4 for awhile.


Anyway, I think Bowser Jr has a decent chance of making it, a better chance than Tingle IMO.

 

[Hero Dude]

Tingle IS pretty likely.

I didn't know it was this contreversial.

RANDOM SIDE NOTE: Hey, a long time ago I found a Japanese site that was all about brawl, and its characters. It was in all japanese though. It was pretty popular at the time, so since I lost it and can't remember the name, I figured one of you might know about it. ( Link please )

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Tingle IS pretty likely.

I didn't know it was this contreversial.

RANDOM SIDE NOTE: Hey, a long time ago I found a Japanese site that was all about brawl, and its characters. It was in all japanese though. It was pretty popular at the time, so since I lost it and can't remember the name, I figured one of you might know about it. ( Link please )

This? http://ikusaba.client.jp/character/

Why; I'm currently rendering the Claus art from it (oh how I wish someone could do that for me ;_; ) That site has some pretty good character art in general. Some of those would've made great Characters/AT's/Bosses...

If It's not then I have probably no clue.

 

[Hero Dude]

Yes! that is it exactly! Thanks.

I do not hate Tingle if that last post by Arcadenik is to me. But I don't think it is.
Tingle is a great character. Imagine playing as him. You float up above people with your balloons and drop bombs on them. Then prance about emotionally scarring every other character in the match.

I am disapointed at that site......it used to be alot better, with more options and stuff.
Can I ask what happened too it?
It used to have Bosses, ATs, and alot more characters.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

That does have good art, the characters that got in though look weird compared to the real versions and BJ was weird looking too

*thinks about Tingle in Smash* thinking.......*wretches* Oh Wow! Words can't express how I feel about that.

 

[Hero Dude]

Well, for you people that don't want him in, try to find some good in it.
Atleast you can beat him up

Just think about how funny he would be in SSE!

@ Wizzerd: When you said this: He's seemingly being phased out of the mainstream Zelda titles in favor of his epic own games, which are only released outside of homophobic territory.

I agreed, 300%
I thought I was the only Importer, unless you live in Europe.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Well, for you people that don't want him in, try to find some good in it.
Atleast you can beat him up

Just think about how funny he would be in SSE!

*goes to training mode*, Ike, Tingle, CPU stop, Smash Ball, GREAT AETHER!!!!

*thinks about him in Story Mode* *starts crying* That would ruin it completely that stupid little 32 year-old wanna-be fairy. It might be humorous but awful, just awful

 

[Hero Dude]

Give me some reason as to why you hate him.

How would it be awful? I'll be willing to bet that you haven't even played his games.
You mostly all hate him for his looks.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

...he's thirty five

 

[Hero Dude]

...he's thirty five

Yes, he is. Not thirty-two

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

The reasons most people dislike Tingle, at least I think, is because he's creepy and weird, not terribly nessecary to the plot of any of the "good games", annoying in mannerisms , like his odd catchphrase, as well as the western nation being generally homophobic

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Yes! that is it exactly! Thanks.

I do not hate Tingle if that last post by Arcadenik is to me. But I don't think it is.
Tingle is a great character. Imagine playing as him. You float up above people with your balloons and drop bombs on them. Then prance about emotionally scarring every other character in the match.

I am disapointed at that site......it used to be alot better, with more options and stuff.
Can I ask what happened too it?
It used to have Bosses, ATs, and alot more characters.

Here: http://ikusaba.client.jp/
Just remove the "Character" off of it and don't remove the / - It's a bit more awkward to navigate now but w/e.

But yeah; It has great art. Claus, Daroach, Isaac, and K.Rool's art for starter's look awesome.

 

[Hero Dude]

Creepy and Weird in westurn culture, but not overall.
Not to mention that statement was completely biased, but most people in the west are.
( Just using you as a example. )

I am only biased on a few things, and games aren't one of them. Atleast not often.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I wasn;t being biased, you aksed why people dislike him, I was giving the opinion of biased people. I don;t care at all about Tingle, wouldn't mind Tetra or Toon Ganon getting in over him, but wouldn;t mind him getting in. You asked for reasons, I stated reasons.

When something is hated, it's often not backed by logical means (though a 35 year old man thinking he's a fairy is not normal, so he is weird). Tingle is no exception. Nothing any character does that makes them hated is unibiased, but thats what an opionon is, a personal bias.

I am not biased towards or against Tingle, I was simply stating the ideas and opinions I have heard others relay about Tingle.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, I'm in agreement that Tingle hate won't keep him out, and that most people will still buy the game even if he was playable. And heck, if you really hate him that much, then you can just use him as a punching bag, right?

In any case, it seems the Koopalings have been "officially" shown now for NSMB Wii, and it also seems Bowser Jr. is going to be the semi-main bad guy like he was back in NSMB for the DS, which should increase his chances even more. In addition, he now has his own tiny Koopa Clown car, which seems like a very possible Up special.

Bowser Jr. is just a boss again. Only now this time, he is just one of the Koopa Kids. So, how is this such a big deal for Bowser Jr.? I mean, he was a boss in Galaxy and the first NSMB, so what makes NSMBWii special for Bowser Jr.? At least NSMBWii is special to Toad because Toads are finally playable in a non-spin-off game since SMB2. NSMBWii is also special to the original Koopa Kids because they are finally back in a 2D platforming game since SMW. Again I ask this... what makes NSMBWii special to Bowser Jr.?

I love the Klown Car, This may make having Bowser Jr. bearable in SSB4...

As for Tingle: People act like Tingle is the ONLY other viable character, despite Sakurai showing intrest in Toon Zelda.

Toon Ganon (just sayin)

And Tetra probably has a better love:hate ratio, despite having less overall popularity (again, just sayin)

Well, I don't think a Zelda/Sheik clone is a better choice over Tingle for SSB4. They might be in SSB4 if Sakurai wants to add some last-minute clones to increase the roster. That's how we got Wolf in Brawl.

He was already likely, this raises his chances alot.

@ Tingle debate: As far as I know, the polls are held in Japan. The Japanese LIKE Tingle.
But I am sure people wouldn't just evade the game, just becouse of one character. Only people with no sense.

Yeah, Tingle wouldn't be a deal breaker. What would be a deal breaker in my eyes is if all the newcomers in SSB4 are third party characters and/or non-video-game characters. The idea of a fighting game featuring Nintendo all-stars (plus a few obscure stars) is what drew me to Smash in the first place.

Yes! that is it exactly! Thanks.

I do not hate Tingle if that last post by Arcadenik is to me. But I don't think it is.
Tingle is a great character. Imagine playing as him. You float up above people with your balloons and drop bombs on them. Then prance about emotionally scarring every other character in the match.

I am disapointed at that site......it used to be alot better, with more options and stuff.
Can I ask what happened too it?
It used to have Bosses, ATs, and alot more characters.

That post wasn't for you. That was for Smashchu.

 

[n88]

@Arcadenik

NSMB Wii could be big for Bowser Jr. for three reasons:

1) With Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings, there are eight bosses, the number of bosses in a traditional Mario game.
2) BJ is driving the Koopa Car
3) Bowser himself has not been mentioned in regards to NSMB Wii (IIRC)

All this seems to indicate that Bowser Jr.'s gonna be the star of the villains show this time around. It would be strange for Bowser to not play a part at all, but Bowser Jr. may once again have a more prominent role.

Plus, when the Koopalings were revealed as bosses, many people thought that meant Jr. was out. Apparently, this is not the case.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@Arcadenik

I figured Toon Zelda would not work, but I threw it out there because of the Forbidden 7.

Also, Are you saying that Tetra wouldbe a shiek clone?

 

[Hero Dude]

Koopa3, I still can't find the spot that shows all the character art.
For someone to say something is weird is biased in itself. Altough, I think so too. But most nintendo characters are.

I already thought that Bowser jr. was gonna be in but now, to me, it is confirmed.
Especially if he is the main boss.

 

[justaway12]

Well, if Bowser isn't there which would suck, even though it's possible, Bowser Jr. is kinda the head of the Koopa Kids, even with Bowser.

The story

Spoiler

shows Koopa kids at the bottom of the cake, and Bowser Jr. at the top, it's not much, but it's a pretty good indication of who's boss

And it's pretty much obvious he is going to be the final/2nd final boss, behind Bowser,

Spoiler

there was a demo of the game where Mario challenged the first boss: Morton, it seems random sticking Bowser Jr. in the middle of the game for a random boss fight....

And he has a clown copter.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Well, for you people that don't want him in, try to find some good in it.
Atleast you can beat him up

Catharsis is not a good reason to include a character.


It doesn't matter WHY people dislike Tingle, only the fact that they dislike him at all. Opinions don't have to be justified or debated.

North America generally hates him. Japan likes him. I haven't seen anything that suggests Europe cares either way. For the Zelda series, Nintendo values the interests of the western world more than Japan's (as they should, Zelda is far more popular here). That's why Tingle has been exiled to his own spinoff series that most of us will never see.

Consider that North America by itself also accounts for around 58% of Smash series sales. And then remember that Tingle holds the dubious title of "the only Nintendo character forced out of a series and into a regional-exclusive spinoff."


Do you really think Sakurai, a man known for his ability to please customers, would go out of his way to exasperate such a massive audience with a playable Tingle? Especially when he could just leave him as an AT or stage element (which in his mind is still a sweet deal).

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Koopa3, I still can't find the spot that shows all the character art.
For someone to say something is weird is biased in itself. Altough, I think so too. But most nintendo characters are.

Again, Any opinion is biased, and you aksed why people *hate* Tingle. HATE. An opionion, which can only be biased.

 

[n88]

@Toise

Yes.

Actually, he might pull a Marth and just put him in the Japanese version, but I doubt anyone will coax him out of that one. Stupid homophobes.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Sakurai is against the idea of characters being exclusive to regional versions of Smash.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

Pretty sure I completely agree with Toise on every point

 

[Hero Dude]

I see what you are saying Toise.
I understand you to, Arcade.
Yay! I get to blame my home country for the lack of my 5th most wanted character!

 

[n88]

@Toise

Is he? I could have sworn he tried to do it with Marth. I still think it could happen to Tingle, though, because Sakurai does cange his mind about things sometimes.

At any rate, this site in particular seems to be more Tingle-loving than most. That is, there are a good chunk of people that like Tingle in addition to those that hate him. Unless this site is a pathological liar, this is the largest Smash community, meaning that he's more popular among Smash fans than Zelda fans.

And yes, most Smash sales may come from America, but I would estimate that <30% of everyone who bought the game would know who Tingle was beforehand (Maybe a few more than that because of his AT in Brawl), and not all of them would hate him.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

But I have noticed that the Tingle hate, is espcially Vehement, more so than any other character proposed, which should say something, despite how many people love him: i think the Hate is stronger than the Love.

 

[Hero Dude]

Well, The poll was on the nintendo website. I have wanted to know the exact results of it, to know if enough people voted to accurately represent America.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

@n88: He planned on doing it with Marth and Roy, then NOA convinced him otherwise. Lucas is evidence that he wants everyone to get the same package.

You can't use an individual site as a barometer for popularity. Just reading this thread alone gives the impression that Fire Emblem and Paper Mario are flagship titles, Donkey Kong is a footnote on Nintendo's early years, and F-Zero is some kind of spaceship owned by the Star Fox team.

Anyway, the important thing to note is that Nintendo's actions have been shaped by the response from North America. It's one thing for fans to complain about stuff, but for the Big N to act on that specifically definitely says something.

 

[Paper Mario Master]

I agree just like Waluigi, Tingle's hate (I'm most sure) is stronger than his love.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@Toise

Is he? I could have sworn he tried to do it with Marth.

Nintendo of America tried to do it with marth, he disagreed*

Face it tingle fans; While he's pretty likely, he's not a shoe-in of any sorts (Especially since we have no info on what sakurai thinks about him) and his american hate CAN Keep him out.

On the other hand, It's not like he has no shot whatsoever. Oh If only we knew why some AT's were discluded from the playable roster.

 

[Hero Dude]

I don't want to discuss this any more.......I see why you didn't in the first place.
Somebody care to change the discussion?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Hmm....What changes do people want to see to individual characters (Now no Samus talk again)

Proposed this once before, and it just became a debate on Samus's brawl abilitties, and a little of Link's.

So new specials, stats, etc.?

 

[Hero Dude]

I really could care less about move sets, specials, and stats. Besides the Ganondorf with sword thing.

 

[Big-Cat]

Hmm....What changes do people want to see to individual characters (Now no Samus talk again)

Proposed this once before, and it just became a debate on Samus's brawl abilitties, and a little of Link's.

So new specials, stats, etc.?

Let Link aim his arrows in any direction.
Give Yoshi a tongue tether
Fix the characters' recovery frames where we don't have chain grabs
Fix Peach's second jump
Get rid of the PT stamina
Give Samus the option to fake out beam and missle attacks

 

[n88]

@Toise

Ah.

Specific character changes?

Mario - Make FLUDD more useful for recovery and gimping.
Luigi - Replace Luigi Tornado w/Poltergust (Projectile catcher functionin similar to G&W's bucket.
Peach - Better 2nd Jump.
Bowser - Move Whirling Fortress to Dash Attack, use the Koopa Car for recovery.

DK - Fix his FS. Seriously, it's the worst move in the game.
Diddy - Add Dixie as a B-Down swap/Ice Climber-style partner.
Yoshi - Tongue tether (I was originally opposed to the idea, but I've warmed up to it)
Wario - Nothing here. I could care less abot Wario.

Link - Make Bombs useful for recovery, add Wolf Link/Midna as a FS Transformation.
Zelda - Make Din's not leave you in helpless, allow Nayru's Love to be held like Fox/Wolf's reflectors, decrease transform time, New F-Air
Sheik - Bring back Melee D-Air, decrease transform time, make chain more useful
Ganondorf - A few New Attacks:

......U-Tilt: Not sure. Just something better than the poor excuse foor an attack he's got now.
......N-Special: Reflector Ball: High damage projectile with low knockback, about the size of Lucario's AS. High charge time ad moderate endlag. The ball doesn't travel very fast, and can be turned around by hitting it with an attack. As with all reflected projectiles, it gains power, and will eventually be able to break through attacks.
......D-Special: Sword Strike: In the air, this is pretty much the same B-Down he's already got, except he holds his sword beneath him as he dives, making the hitbox disjointed. On the ground, G-dorf spins the sword around him in a low-to-the-ground circle. Excellent GTFO move.

Toon Link - Few New Attacks as well:

......F-Smash: Skull Hammer
......Up-Special: Deku Leaf: After completing his spin attack, Tink is able to float down on a Deku Leaf, much like G&W.
......D-Special: Bombchu: Tink sets a Bombchu on the ground, which runs to the edge of the platform or until it hits another player before exploding.

Samus - Make the Charge Shot and Smash Missiles kill, make transition to ZSS slightly easier
ZSS - A Z-Air would be nice.
Pit - Make his voice less annoying. I shudder whenever I hear it.
ICs - Make Nana's Damage visible.
ROB - Make his Side Special fire him forward a la Brawl+

Have to go. More later.

 

[Arcadenik]

Let Link aim his arrows in any direction.
Give Yoshi a tongue tether
Fix the characters' recovery frames where we don't have chain grabs
Fix Peach's second jump
Get rid of the PT stamina
Give Samus the option to fake out beam and missle attacks

Link's arrows... okay, I can take that... but no curving the arrow's path.

Yoshi's tongue tether... meh, I can live without it.... after all, I main Yoshi in Brawl. But that would be nice to have.

As a Peach player, I don't feel that Peach's second jump needs to be fixed. Her second jump is fine as is. She was more broken in Melee compared to in Brawl because her second jump allowed her to go higher before she started floating.

What's wrong with stamina?

Also, how would Samus fake out her projectiles? I mean, she already has B for Charge Shot and Side B for Missile... so what button(s) would I need to press to fake out?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Also, how would Samus fake out her projectiles? I mean, she already has B for Charge Shot and Side B for Missile... so what button(s) would I need to press to fake out?

How about pressing the shield button as soon as you input B or Side B? I think there's a long enough delay before they fire to make that plausible.

EDIT: Holy cow, KumaOso surpassed me in the post count for this thread! *bows down*

Seriously though, you've done some serious posting, man.

 

[Fatmanonice]

@ Hero Dude: The reason why Tingle will never get in is because the US hates Tingle. Sakurai would not be dumb enough to add a character a lot of people loath.

I disagree. If that were the case, Samus and Ness wouldn't have even been in the original because, in Japan, Metroid's barely a blip on the radar while Earthbound tanked spectacularly in the US despite a strong ad campaign and gift promotion from NOA.

 

[BKupa666]

@Arcadenik

2) BJ is driving the Koopa Car

Where did it say that? Please link.

This really does not decrease Jr.'s prominence. If anything, it solidifies that he'll be sticking around, as he was brought back alongside the Koopalings and Kamek rather than replaced by them.

Croctopus​

Croctopi are territorial octopi who hide in the vibrant coral reefs of Donkey Kong Country. Should any intruder disturb their peace, a Croctopus will spin its poisonous tentacles like a windmill and chase the perpetrator. Croctopi are among the strongest underwater opponents in any DK game; they cannot be defeated in any way, shape, or form. The answer to avoiding the wrath of a Croctopus is simple; swim away like Michael Phelps on weed (oh...my bad).

Statistics​

Traction: 10
Aerial Movement: 8
Jumps: 8
Movement: 6
Size: 5
Weight: 5
Power: 3
Fall Speed: 2

Croctopus has a unique, floaty style that even Mewtwo could not hope to achieve; he glides around to run and flaps his tentacles to jump, as if he were underwater. Keeping true-to-character, Croctopus wants to stay close to opponents and pressure them, and he's equipped with the fast attacks with which to do so. In particular, he wants to pressure his opponents into a dodge, giving him and opening to snare them with one of his held-out attacks.

Croctopus has a unique mechanic on his jumps. By tapping the jump button, Croctopus flaps upwards a short distance, holding out the animation slightly. By quickly tapping the jump button again, Croctopus brings his tentacles together powerfully, gliding upwards a Ganondorf and a half. He can do this three times in mid-air at once. Croctopus can angle the second part of this jump in any direction, making these glide-jumps an effective recovery. By glide-jumping close to the ground, Croctopus can short-hop multiple aerials at once.

Specials​

Neutral Special - Pinwheel

Croctopus begins doing what he does best; he extends his tentacles and spins them 'round and 'round rapidly. The spinning octopus becomes a Bowser-sized grab hitbox. Croctopus starts and ends this move very quickly; what makes the move special is that he can hold his spinning out as long as he wants. Should a foe attempt to shield or spot-dodge this move, Croctopus will easily snag them in his tentacles in a grab.

Characters will quickly learn to retaliate against Croctopus if he just throws this move out there. However, your grab and throws are among Croctopus' best damage-builders, so this is a great tool for transitioning into these moves. How do you land it on a foe, then? Croctopus wants to pressure a character into dodging with his other moves, before punishing the dodge with this move. Croctopus can also perform this move in mid-air, slowly falling as he holds the move out (he can pull a character down to where they can't recover, before using glide-jumps to make it back safely).

Up Special - Chase
Croctopus begins spinning and honing in on the closest character at Falcon's dash speed. Because there's almost no lag starting this up, it can give characters an 'oh shit' impulse to dodge, especially if Croctopus is close to the character and they have no time to retaliate. Croctopus can hold his pursuit out for up to three seconds; by shielding, he can end his chase early.

If Croctopus hits the victim, he'll spin them around in his tentacles, dealing 15% and knockback that KOs around 150%. If Croctopus' enemy dodges, he'll miss them by a character width before looping back around to continue his assault. Plenty of time for the victim to DI away and escape. How do you combat this? You can also instantly break his chase by pressing B, which will cancel this move right into his spinning grab. If they did indeed dodge, use B to break on top of them, and Croctopus will have them in his clutches. Croctopus can close the distance between himself and a character if necessary, and can even scare them into a dodge with the sheer speed of this move.

Down Special - Ink
Croctopus flaps his tentacles, causing a cloud of ink two Bowsers wide and tall to appear around him, with .45 second startup. Nothing can be seen inside this murky cloud for the five seconds it stays out; Croctopus can squirt multiple ink clouds next to each other to envelop the stage in obscurity. If a character can't see what attacks you're using, they'll be likely to dodge erratically to try and avoid whatever you might throw their way. Go ahead and Pinwheel them. Also, if you wish to take advantage of their dodge with another move, try hitting them into the ink with the same attack, multiple times. They'll dodge what they expect is coming at them...so change it up once they can't see and hit them with another move of your choice.

Side Special - Poison Spray
Croctopus aims his tentacles sideways and flails them around, tossing many little particles of green poison, all clumped together in a Bowser-sized cloud, forward two Bowsers. These particles deal multiple light hits, all at once. One properly-timed dodge will clear every single particle (they vanish after a short period of time). However, it is crucial to dodge, or you'll take the 20% that the particles deal.

Croctopus has .2 second startup lag, but none on the end; this allows him to dash up to characters dodging his poison and hold his grab out to catch them. Because Croctopus ultimately wants to build damage, this move is great for him; if pulled off properly, his opponent either has to take the damage, or get grabbed. Of course, Croctopus must pressure the character with a grab if this is to work; he can't just let his opponent dodge and escape...

Grab and Throws​

Grab -
Croctopus begins doing what he does best, spinning his tentacles at a rapid pace. This grab has minimal lag on both ends; what makes it special is that Croctopus can hold it out for as long as he wishes. The closest equivalent would be Inhale, although with more applications in Croctopus' game. Croctopus can grab in mid-air, although he slowly descends as he spins, similarly to holding Fox's reflector. By activating your grab offstage, you can block a recovering character, take them down far enough to prevent their safe return, then float back up to the stage.

Pummel - Tentacle Choke
Croctopus uses his tentacles to throttle his victim by the throat. Each pummel deals 2%, and can be done rapidly to stack damage on characters before throwing them.

Forward Throw - Windmill Toss
Croctopus winds up, opponent caught in his tentacles, before spinning to toss them horizontally.