[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Thirdkoopa]

I'd post another reaction image, but two is too many for one post. People here love Lyn. Ridley was probably not considered very much. When Sakurai mentione him in the NP interview, he wasn't very definitive. He was a little coy, making me think he didn't consider Ridley for Brawl. He'll probably be one of the lapse characters. Otherwise, it's about right.

But logically; Lyn never had a chance. I honestly don't see what makes her that special as opposed to other FE Lords asides from the fact that she's a girl. Ike was already confirmed and obvious, Marth was obvious, and If we were to get a third one chances are it would've went to roy or another recent one (Which in the end, a 3rd rep was pretty doubtable considering the roster size...I actually was thinking 38-40 the entire time, and If you include Shiek/Zss I was pretty close )

Well, I suppose she had a chance during roster deciding, but of course Ike and Marth > Her priorities. I never really got what was special about her. Feel free to clarify.

...This makes me want to write what I think of all AT's possibilities at playability in the next game but I'll do that later today.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

@smashchu: Another reasonf or his inclusion wasn;t nessecarily his popularity, but his mirrored aspects to pikachu (Cat and Mouse - #25 and #52 etc.). Just thought I'd give you some more ammo for this uphill battle you seem to be facing (though It being Mewoth, I'm not sure why)

 

[lordvaati]

I've been thinking of something new that could be implemented, and I came up with this: double jump storing. normally, the average recovery pattern is: jump>double jump> recovery attack. but if you do jump>recovery attack, you get no no Double jump afterwards even after being hit. now my idea is that if you do this method and fail, you enter the normal helpless state and die,or whatever. however,if you do this method and someone hits you during/after the recovery attack, you can use the unused double jump as a last- ditch effort to recover. this could be an interesting counter to edgeguarding. what do you guys think?

 

[n88]

@Kuma

Samus/ZSS isn't meant to be played like a duo. They were made to be two distinct characters. ZSS does not compliment Samus like Charizard compliments Squirtle and Zelda compliments Sheik. During a match, most people would just pick one and go with it even if you could transform at will.

EDIT

@lordvaati

Isn't recovering in Brawl easy enough already?

 

[Big-Cat]

@Kuma

Samus/ZSS isn't meant to be played like a duo. They were made to be two distinct characters. ZSS does not compliment Samus like Charizard compliments Squirtle and Zelda compliments Sheik. During a match, most people would just pick one and go with it even if you could transform at will.

I never played the two like a duo; in fact, I barely touched Samus. Smashchu is implying that they should (at least I think) because they're a spin on the transformation gig.

 

[Hero Dude]

Did we even talk about the likelyness of Tingle?
You all just told me how much you hated him......

 

[n88]

@Kuma

Sorry. Guess I misread the argument. Well, my post still stands for anyone who thinks Samus and ZSS are meant to be played together.

Howzabout Bosses in the next game? Personally, I would like to see Boss Battles expanded into its own mode, outside the stadium. And I would like these characters for bosses:

Giga Bowser (Super Mario Bros)
Petey Pirahna (Super Mario Bros)

Vaati (Legend of Zelda)

Ridley (Metroid)*
Meta Ridley (Metroid)*

Nightmare (Kirby Superstar)

Andross (StarFox)

Black Shadow (F-Zero)**

Rayquaza (Pokemon)
Latest-Gen Character(Pokemon)

Master Hand (Smash)
Crazy Hand (Smash)
Tabuu (Smash)
Galleom (Smash)
Duon (Smash)

Metal Gear (Metal Gear)
Dr. Robotnik/Eggman/Whatever the hell he's calling himself these days
(Sonic the Hedgehog)


Also, Night Terror from SoulCalibur would be pretty awesome, should a SoulCalibur character make it in. But again, I don't feel like going through that debate right now.

*If he didn't make the playable roster. I'm not looking to start a debate here. If you think Ridley's gonna be playable, just mentally scratch him off this list.

**In his car/vehicle thing. I don't find it all that probable, but hey, ya never know.

EDIT: @Hero Dude

Tingle is among the best picks for SSB4, but many people do their best to deny it, because they hate him. It's a topic that's been discussed multiple times.

 

[Hero Dude]

Why isn't there a * by Vaati?

 

[n88]

Because people don't get into massive wars over Vaati. The * was just a way of indicating I wasn't trying to start a fight. Vaati is a possiblity, but he's currently only appeared in three games, none of them terribly recent, and he can't easily be a clone of anyone. He kinda missed his chance.

 

[Hero Dude]

I see what you are saying.
He is the equivalant of Zant, but to Celda.

Change the subject if you don't want to "Fight". Discuss is the right word.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Did we even talk about the likelyness of Tingle?
You all just told me how much you hated him......

Yeah, we do but there's really no denying that he's by far the most likely new Zelda character if they decide to add one. He's fairly popular outside North America, is now the star of his own franchise, and is still a reoccuring character in the regular Zelda games. Basically, the only other character I'd consider is Vaati but he's not that popular and has pretty much been left behind in the franchise.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Na, Fatman, Vaati would be good. Midna and maybe even Zant are still choices. Honestly, the more Tingle we keep away the better. Twin Rova (Spirit Temple boss) is reoccuring, and who knows what Spirit Tracks will bring. And there is the ever growing fandom for Tetra!

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Yea N88's right, People either hate him, love him, or don't care enought to comment (I wouldnt care if he got in, but I'd rather see T. Ganon get in first.

Now for the bosses:

Good list, a little small though...but I'm assumign thats just because you don't know enough about the series to make decsions?

 

[n88]

@Hero Dude

I use "Fight" because it more accurately reflects what's happening when certain topics are being discussed. People get really PO'd when someone argues with them over the internet, including myself. I'm not sure why.

Not sure why you're talking about Zant. Clarification?

EDIT:

@Shino

Actually, the list is quite large, by current standards. Fifteen-Seventeen bosses would make for a much longer adventure than SSE.

 

[Hero Dude]

@ n88: He is the puppet of his game, not really any other role than that.

@Fat Jackie Chan: Fatman is right, and you are wrong. Fatman provides evidence with his claims. you state your oppinions, and think they are true.
For example, you may want Vaati, but that doesn't mean he is likely.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Na, I wasn't saying that I want Vaati, FMOI agree on a lot of stuff. I am just saying that Tingle isn't the only option. and for a simple claim like that I really don't need evidence. Vaati has been in multiple games, so has Twin Rova. Both Zant and Midna are modern characters. AND WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT SPIRIT TRACKS WILL BRING. So I really can't be wrong. Zant and Midna are from the last Wii game (save cross bow training), Vaati and Twin have been in more than 1 game. Those are facts. Tingle has just as much of a shot as other. The only thing that was an opinion is that I don't want Tingle. So before you go trying to flame me, think about what you are doing.

 

[Hero Dude]

Tingle has three games all in his own.

 

[FatJackieChan]

So? I can't think of how Tingle will work...

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Every boss shouldn't have to be outrageously huge to be considered a boss, and I stand by that. Another thing, I want to see bosses where you don't necessarily have to beat the tar out of them to win.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing the following:

Mario

• Giga Bowser
• Petey Pirahna

Loz

• Vaati
• Ganon
• Skull Kid (Catch him through a maze of sorts. He'll send waves of enemies to attack you, a la TP. Can be considered a mini-boss)

Metroid

• Kraid
• Omega Ridley
• Dark Samus

Pokemon

• Giovanni (Controlling armored Mewtwo)
• 5th-gen pokemon

Kirby

• Possessed DDD
• Zero

Wario

• Captain Syrup (In Pirate Ship)

Yoshi

• Kamek

Mother/EarthBound

• Porky
• Masked Man

F-Zero

• Black Shadow

Kid Icarus

• Eggplant Wizard
• Medusa

Third Party

• Dr. Eggman
• Dr. Wily
• Metal Gear Ray

Smash Bosses

• Master Hand
• Smash inspired boss
• Mario inspired boss
• Donkey Kong inspired boss (A DK robot, Possessed K.K Rool, Dark K.K Rool, Giga-esque K.K Rool, I dunno)
• Star Fox inspired boss
• Fire Emblem inspired boss
• Mother/Earthbound inspired boss
• Ice Climbers inspired boss
• Etc.

@FatJackieChan: Tingle certainly isn't the only option, I agree. Midna and Tetra are viable--Midna having the whole Sheik factor going for her, and Tetra being a popular new character.

Still, it really depends on the people. He definitely could work splendidly, even though you can't really see how.

 

[FatJackieChan]

Thank you, oh, and if the voters don't really want Tingle we wouldn't get him. Diddy Kong didn't have a recent game besides the racing port to the DS, but he got rated #2 in the Japanese chart and he is in the game.

 

[mariorocks64]

I hope every stage in the smash series return.
I want a stage called Corneria 2.
Corneria 2 will be an unlockable stage. its unlocked by completing the event "starfox showdown". The stage takes place on the great fox. then you fight ontop of the arwings and wolfens. then, you'll end up on a flat surface with the great fox that crash landed in the background. it remains on fire.

ORIGIN
not really an origin. mabye its the crash landing scene from starfox assualt. in starfox games, starfox will battle starwolf. this is also shown. Corneria is the fourth planet of the lylat system. You end up in the field area where you fight the first boss when taking the easy path.


FEATURES
the stage starts off ontop of the great fox. all of a sudden, incoming enemy missles hit the stage, and the great fox crash lands on a field. before it hits the ground, enemy ships swarm the top of the screen for you to use as platforms. soon, all ship get blown up by lasers. and you and the enemy land on the field, with the destroyed great fox in the background still on fire. arwings and wolfens battle in the background. sometimes, a ship will crash land on the stage. this is critical to the player that gets hit by a falling ship. when all ships (including arwings and wolfens) are gone, the rest of the match will be neutral. no more crazy features.

I thought of the idea myself. so what do you think?

 

[Pieman0920]

There really won't be as many bosses as most people think, and there certainly won't be a boss for each series. Will probably get something fromt he main series, and probalby one or two from a more obscure series, and that's probably going to be it. (And that will only be for lesser series who actually have bosses. It makes no sense to put Black Shadow in there as a boss for instance, because he's not a fighter. Heck, even Deathborne who makes a lot more sense due to him actually having powers still makes no sense)

Also Kamek is a pretty unlikely choice given that he's technically a generic enemy, and because the character in the Yoshi series never fights himself.

 

[Hero Dude]

The Japanese like Tingle. The polls are held in Japan. Whats that lead to?
Just becouse you can't think of how he will work doesn't mean he won't be in. To be exact, that has nothing to do with it.
Twin Rova REALLY has no chance.
While I can't say that they aren't options, I can say that they aren't as likely as Tingle.
You told Fatman he was wrong, when he presented you with nothing but facts.
I alerted you at this, and you accused me of flaming.
Edit: Twin Rova has no chance to be playable. He could be a boss.

 

[Fatmanonice]

You know what they should do? They should set it up like the SSE but it's seperated into different worlds based on the different Nintendo franchises that you can choose to play in order. Basically, each world would be 3-6 stages based on the size of the franchise and every stage would have a mini boss while there would be a big boss at the end of the world. In the end, it would basically be a mix between the SSE and Melee's Adventure mode.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

The Japanese like Tingle. The polls are held in Japan. Whats that lead to?
Just becouse you can't think of how he will work doesn't mean he won't be in. To be exact, that has nothing to do with it.
Twin Rova REALLY has no chance.
While I can't say that they aren't options, I can say that they aren't as likely as Tingle.
You told Fatman he was wrong, when he presented you with nothing but facts.
I alerted you at this, and you accused me of flaming.
Edit: Twin Rova has no chance to be playable. He could be a boss.

Twin Rova's a girl(s).
And No one wants to argue Tingle anymore because all you do is yell at them if they don't want Tingle. He is a likely candidadate, yes, but if anyone says otherwsie, you go aggro. You gave the reasons as Tingle being the only candidate as him being reoccurring. HE pointed out that Tingle is not the only reoccuring character, not the best candidates for smash (Sorry if I'm supporting you wrongly FJC)

You know what they should do? They should set it up like the SSE but it's seperated into different worlds based on the different Nintendo franchises that you can choose to play in order. Basically, each world would be 3-6 stages based on the size of the franchise and every stage would have a mini boss while there would be a big boss at the end of the world. In the end, it would basically be a mix between the SSE and Melee's Adventure mode.

I like this idea. I think it was Pieman who said that the Story Mode Boss holds some kind of contest for the fighters to enter, which I think is a good idea.

I think the characters you choose should start in his or own themed homeworld and a VERY short cutscene (Nothing too extravagant like the SSE) will show why everyone is fighting in this contest (Boss promises the winnder his dream come true)
ex. Mario and Peach want a safe Mushroom Kingdrom, DK and Diddy want lots of bannanas, etc.

 

[Hero Dude]

@Shino: But I am not even angry. I just showed him how Tingle was more likely than the other Zelda options.

It isn't called going aggro, if all I did was debate.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Regarding Tingle, there are other reoccuring Zelda characters but they're not entirely relevant. Vaati hasn't been around since the Minish Cap (2005) and Twin Rova hasn't been around since Orcale of Seasons/Ages (2001). As of right now, Zant and Midna have been one hit wonders and, if I had to guess, Zant is probably offically dead while I wouldn't be surprized if Midna returned eventually. Regardless, Tingle's not the only choice for the Zelda franchise but he's far and away the most likely at this current time if Zelda were to get a new character. (Which is debatable all onto itself.)

 

[SmashChu]

@ Hero Dude: The reason why Tingle will never get in is because the US hates Tingle. Sakurai would not be dumb enough to add a character a lot of people loath.

 

[DekuBoy]

That's a somewhat funny look on things SmashChu. Nintendo are still making games for Tingle so to say that he doesn't have chances is kinda silly.

 

[Arcadenik]

So because one country hates Tingle, the rest of the world can't have Tingle? In case you forgot, Tingle's games were released in Japan and Europe (as in more than two countries). Sometimes I think you hate Tingle but you don't want to say it so you just say "USA hates Tingle".

 

[Scott!]

Tingle is an abomination and is the single biggest thing wrong with every Zelda game he's in. that said, he's the most likely new LoZ character for SSB4. His presence would irritate lots of people, but I can't believe he'd be a deal breaker that would keep people from buying the game. I hate him, and I will buy every smash game and Zelda game he's in. Not his spin-offs, because that's just too horrible to imagine, but the rest of what I mentioned, yes. He was included as an AT, so he's on Sakurai's mind. Clearly, Sakurai would include a character so many Americans hate. Skull kid lost his chance in Melee. Midna and Wolf Link are quite probably one-shot deals. Vaati's possible, and would be awesome, but Tingle's just so much more known and probable.

 

[n88]

Where does the Tingle hate come from? Seriously. I found him mildly annoying at worst, and fairly helpful the rest of the time.

But like Scott! said, the hate isn't going to keep him out if Sakurai thinks he should be in.

 

[Pieman0920]

Yeah, I'm in agreement that Tingle hate won't keep him out, and that most people will still buy the game even if he was playable. And heck, if you really hate him that much, then you can just use him as a punching bag, right?

In any case, it seems the Koopalings have been "officially" shown now for NSMB Wii, and it also seems Bowser Jr. is going to be the semi-main bad guy like he was back in NSMB for the DS, which should increase his chances even more. In addition, he now has his own tiny Koopa Clown car, which seems like a very possible Up special.

 

[Wizzerd]

Anyway, everyone else beat me to the Tingle defense, but I just wanna point out that by SSB4 most people won't even know who he is. He's seemingly being phased out of the mainstream Zelda titles in favor of his

Spoiler

epic

own games, which are only released outside of homophobic territory. People would find him mildly flamboyant at worst... A deal breaker just isn't true.

EDIT: Yeah, Bowser Jr. has a pretty good chance.

 

[justaway12]

http://www.nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nsmbw_scan-3.jpg

I think Bowser. Jr's chances just got bigger (bottom right corner), notice anybody familier?

@Pieman: Pretty sure Bowser is going to be head bad guy :O
Look who is on top of the cake in the picture.
But yeah...

Tingle's cute, not that I've played LoZ...
other than 1/4th (?) of OoT and the first three days of MM, so, IDK

 

[Thirdkoopa]

http://www.nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nsmbw_scan-3.jpg

I think Bowser. Jr's chances just got bigger (bottom right corner), notice anybody familier?

@Pieman: Pretty sure Bowser is going to be head bad guy :O
Look who is on top of the cake in the picture, he is in a mini clown car, and since we had a preveiw of NSMBW and faced Morton (?), I think it would seem random seeing Bowser jr. in a random boss fight...

Tingle's cute, not that I've played LoZ...

Picture doesn't work, can anybody give me a working one? I haven't been up to date on NSBWii

 

[justaway12]

I didn't work for me for a while as well, just stay there for, like, 1 minute.
If it doesn't work, sorry.

EDIT: http://www.nintendoeverything.com/?attachment_id=25853
Try here, and enlarge the picture...

 

[SmashChu]

So because one country hates Tingle, the rest of the world can't have Tingle? In case you forgot, Tingle's games were released in Japan and Europe (as in more than two countries). Sometimes I think you hate Tingle but you don't want to say it so you just say "USA hates Tingle".

I'd post another reaction image, but I don't have time.

Sakurai has said characters must make people want to play the game. Thus, the opposite is true. Sakurai would add characters that would not make players want to play the game. Thus, Tingle is out.

Sakurai isn't going to add a character a lot of people loath just becuase two other regions like him (although Europe is more OK with him). The post below yours is how players would react if Tingle would be in the game.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I love the Klown Car, This may make having Bowser Jr. bearable in SSB4...

As for Tingle: People act like Tingle is the ONLY other viable character, despite Sakurai showing intrest in Toon Zelda.

Toon Ganon (just sayin)

And Tetra probably has a better love:hate ratio, despite having less overall popularity (again, just sayin)

 

[Hero Dude]

He was already likely, this raises his chances alot.

@ Tingle debate: As far as I know, the polls are held in Japan. The Japanese LIKE Tingle.
But I am sure people wouldn't just evade the game, just becouse of one character. Only people with no sense.