[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[PHiL Gee]

Megaman and Zero for sure!

 

[Fatmanonice]

In all honesty, how can there still be people out there who literally believe that's Sakurai purposely made Brawl the way that he did to troll the Melee competitive community? It's ABSURD! It's like saying Cartoon Network now has reality shows just to piss off the people who watched it in the late 1990's. How can people view things in such a way? *ends rant and goes upstairs to the liquer cabinet for the long, long, long night ahead of him*

 

[Sukai]

Sakurai stated he didn't want Brawl to be competitive. A thread was made about it like Sept./Oct. of last year with a link to him stating he perfers casual "FFA item timed" matches over "No items, Fox only, Final Destination".
Brawl being non-competitive is not my opinion.
And can you stop insulting my intelligence? I'll get a mod in this *****.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Here's what I'm thinking...

Nintendo of America is hinting that a future smash is being considered and what types of characters we can hope to see.

Maybe Sakurai noticed Megaman would have been good for Brawl and talked to Megaman's developer. Maybe Square Enix has already been consulted about Geno. I'm not saying the roster is already decided, but maybe Square Enix was asked for Geno to be in a future smash game IF there is a future smash game.

I don't think Sakurai even knows about this. Sakurai never planned on making Brawl until it was announced at E3 05 that a new Smash game was to be developed without him even knowing about it. Maybe this is Nintendo's way of saying "If there was another Smash game, this is who you might see."

OR...

Like someone mentioned earlier, this could be some sort of expansion to Brawl. I really hope this isn't the case, if there is some sort of expansion, I want it to be an actually full game.

But the wierd thing is, this isn't like the EGM Sonic Hoax. This is NINTENDO talking about Smash and characters that were attending a "Grand Smash Tournament". This has to mean something, it can't just be Nintendo pulling our legs... I just want to know why Nintendo did this and exactly what it means, and I want to know soon...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sakurai stated he didn't want Brawl to be competitive. A thread was made about it like Sept./Oct. of last year with a link to him stating he perfers casual "FFA item timed" matches over "No items, Fox only, Final Destination".
Brawl being non-competitive is not my opinion.
And can you stop insulting my intelligence? I'll get a mod in this *****.

*comes back in a stares at the screen for a minute* ... *closes eyes and rubs the bridge of his nose* ... *somehow convinces himself to respond*

He prefers it but he has never come out and said "I do not like competitive play." If you are referring to the "real men use items" picture on the Dojo, I think I will literally scream. If Sakurai was truly against competitive play as you say, Smash would be like Mario Kart. (Which I already said but you decided not to read for some, doubtless petty, reason.) All items would be on, you couldn't control how much there were, you couldn't customize your controls, all the stages would probably have hazards of some kind, timed matches would be the only matches you could do, etc. Basically, he did most of the basic things the way he did with all the Smash games. Oh course, there's also the tournament mode too which in turn suggests that he expected people to do some sort of structured competition whether it completely followed competitive standards or not.

Brawl is less competitive than Melee, not "non-competitive." Non-competitive would be like Mario Kart where you can use things like stars and blue shells to win or royally screw up other players at the last minute and experience and no-how means close to nothing when it comes to who wins in the end. Competition is still possible in Brawl. You can still counterpick stages and characters. Yes, Brawl has infinites, jab locks, grab releases, and laughably bad match ups but, in a sense, it doesn't completely kill competition. If you play as Ganondorf and you lose to King Dedede, the terms of competitive play say "no Johns", it's your fault for not counterpicking. If you play as Peach against Metaknight on Rainbow Cruise and get three stocked, again, sucks to be you. Melee and 64 were the same way when it comes to that.

Brawl has less options overall which makes it less competitive. The characters have better recoveries and aerial dodging is a lot more effective. Because of these, some characters are left with less edgeguarding options, wave dashing is gone, and makes true combos near impossible to do. Sakurai said at the beginning that he wanted to put more aerial options in Brawl and not "Habba Jeeba Joe, this will reeeeeeeeeeeeally piss off the guys at Smash Boards." What I mentioned were pretty much unintentional side effects much like wave dashing in Melee. In short, Sakurai's goal was to make the game different and the fact that these changes made the game less competitive overall was a coinicidence.

What about character balance? The guy spent about 3 months putting the characters in the game. He said that probably about 60% of the development time was spent of the SSE and some 25% on the online options leaving 15% for everything else. Because competitive play isn't the main focus of the Smash series, it's common sense that they didn't spend all that much time on character balance based on everything else they had to do. Metaknight's really good but, in the standard casual way, he's not as cheap because he has one of the weakest Final Smashes and his weak aerials usually take it longer for him to break Smash Balls. Sakurai and his staff probably didn't have time to find the various infinites and grab releases that plague the game or learn that Captain Falcon and Ganondorf would be so greatly hindered by their lack of approaches. Again, it just happened and were understandable oversights when the developers weren't competitive players like me or you.

In the end, I feel as though I have every right to question your intelligence if you somehow overlooked everything I mentioned here and still insist that "Sakurai is a troll and intentionally ruined Smash." Did Sakurai make Brawl less competitive than Melee. Yes. Did he do it intentionally? Not unless you like wearing tin foil hats. Now I just went through this and it took a little less than five minutes to read so please, for the love of the God, don't insist that it is far and beyond your mental capabilities to go through.

 

[Clownbot]

We had a wonderful discussion over supper about people reading too much into things. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

Perhaps a new Smash may not be as likely as we thought...

 

[Sukai]

Yeah okay, feel smart if you please. Question my intelligence, you're one of the many people whom I don't give a rats *** what he thinks about me. But for the record.
Mario Kart was not designed by Sakurai, so you cannot say for certain that Smash would be like Mario Kart if it was non-competitive, that's stupid. Plain and simple.

You make it sound like casual gamers have no standards, don't care about having neat features and customizable controls, you imply this by saying that such features wouldn't exist if smash was "non-competitive", that's also stupid and an insult to casuals. I'm sure casual gamers like having options too.

You do not hold any right to dictate what "non-competitive" games will or won't feature. I see you parading about saying what smash would be like if designed with no concern for competition. Almost as if you know.
Well you don't, hate love to break it to you.
All you're spouting out is badly executed speculation, which pulls no weight.
Why? Groundless opinion.

Lastly!!!
I--in no way, shape, fashion, form, or interpretation said Sakurai was trolling us as SWF and it's members, that he was putting Brawl together to deliberately disappoint us, that's what you somehow got out of the "he spat in our faces" comment, which was an exaggeration at best. Sakurai designed Brawl to be fun, he--personally--doesn't think competitive play is fun, therefore took a casual-oriented approach
This--although indirect--was what made the game non-competitively designed.

Simple, straight up, stop trying to justify it.
I never character balance, because even competitively designed fighting games often have shaky character balance.

ONE MORE TIME
Lets hope SSB4 is not another Brawl
in the sense that it is designed with no concern for competitive play.

Your hearsay appears to be nothing but weak attempts at justifying Brawl's suckage, attacking sheer opinion and specifically targeting clearly exaggerated comments using beyond flawed logic, feeling oh so smart of the **** that flys of your fingers.
You have no intelligence to question or insult.
I'm ignoring you, literally.

 

[Fatmanonice]

^^^^^
See?
He's one of those guys who hates others for having different opinions.

Aside from the fact that you were stating your opinions as facts and then decided that mine, which I bothered to back up with credible info and legitimate arguements, were not worth your time reading because they took about a minute longer to read than the menu at McDonalds. Make no mistake, I don't hate you, I hate the fact that you don't just swim in a pool of intentional ignorance, you tie cinder blocks to your ankles and try to eat a sub sandwich as you sink to the bottom. As you can see, I have zero tolerance for those who attempt to troll me.

@ clownbot:

Nintendo must have feared the backlash. From a public relations stand point, they should have run with it a little longer.

 

[Sukai]

I love the ignore list feature.
It's so pro.

 

[Clownbot]

Guys, please stop arguing. You're making my SSB4 Discussion Thread visit gloomy.

Anyway...

I question what kind of moveset Prof. Layton would have in Smash. Anyone have ideas? (I've never played the games that much before, so I'm not quite sure what he's done in the past.)

 

[Starphoenix]

Perhaps a new Smash may not be as likely as we thought...

No the quote means exactly what it says, people are reading too much into it. All it shows is Nintendo recognizes how badly people wanted Geno and Megaman, Little Mac is simply due to his recent appearance and how much he was requested before.

It is obvious it was just a teasing joke on Nintendo's part, but at least they get to see how much hype Megaman and Geno can get. They are watching us...

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Perhaps a new Smash may not be as likely as we thought...

Dang! Beat me to it, I was about to post that!

But yeah, I had the same thought when I read that. It makes the whole thing seem like a bit of a joke. But still, why would Nintendo joke about something like THAT? Do they get a kick out of watching people go crazy over the mention of Geno and Megaman in Smash? This could be the case, but it seems unlikely.

And anyway, how do we know that Nintendo set up the the twitter account? It could have been a clever group of fans, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I never noticed any official mention of NOA linked with the Twitter page...

 

[Sukai]

I wouldn't say it's a joke, but a teaser, if that makes any sense, remember the other parts of the quote, "not that there's anything wrong with that".
That could go in many directions.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I wouldn't say it's a joke, but a teaser, if that makes any sense, remember the other parts of the quote, "not that there's anything wrong with that".
That could go in many directions.

I sensed a bit of sarcasm in there, or just a way of saying "sorry, its not what you expected", or "It's okay, people make mistakes." But you could be right, it could mean anything. I just think that mentioning the "how people read too much into things" part is kind of implying that it was taken to seriously or that it really wasn't as big of a deal as many people thought...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well, the guy can't even read my posts now. If you ask me, putting someone on the ignore list just to avoid a debate is simply an act of cowardice. Awesome, he responds and then makes it so he can't even read what I write back just to avoid me pointing out how "spat in our faces" and "Brawl's suckage" are indeed opinions that he expressed as facts. God, to think where I'd be if I ever ran away from every debate I've been cornered in.

@ clownbot:

Nintendo should have gone on with it longer. If their goal was simply to get more attention for the game, it definately would have been a lot smarter to do it longer than a day.

 

[sundayseclipse]

lol smash is a nintendo trend now, even if sakurais not atending, "The show must go on."

lol you know what would REALLY PISS ME OFF.
if the grand smash tournamrnt wasnt a referance to brawl. ide go on a killing spree.....

"only time we'll tell"

 

[Clownbot]

Uh, is there a typo in your post? What matters whether it's related to Brawl? (other than being in the same series, and, y'know, all that gameplay stuff.)

 

[Fatmanonice]

lol smash is a nintendo trend now, even if sakurais not atending, "The show must go on."

lol you know what would REALLY PISS ME OFF.
if the grand smash tournamrnt wasnt a referance to brawl. ide go on a killing spree.....

"only time we'll tell"

Why would it be a reference to Brawl though? As already mentioned, DLC is impossible and an expansion pack would be completely out of left field. Granted, it's not like it couldn't happened but it would be so uncharacteristic of Nintendo to do so. If it did pertain to an actual Smash game, maybe it's foreshadowing a poll like what was held about a year after the original Smash Bros release in Japan.

Regardless, it seems to have just been a way to get attention although I bet Nintendo's regretting taming the crowd seeing how they actually got a ton people's attention by simply talking about Smash Bros.

 

[majora_787]

Why would it be a reference to Brawl though? As already mentioned, DLC is impossible and an expansion pack would be completely out of left field. Granted, it's not like it couldn't happened but it would be so uncharacteristic of Nintendo to do so. If it did pertain to an actual Smash game, maybe it's foreshadowing a poll like what was held about a year after the original Smash Bros release in Japan.

Regardless, it seems to have just been a way to get attention although I bet Nintendo's regretting taming the crowd seeing how they actually got a ton people's attention by simply talking about Smash Bros.

Yeh...It'd be really stupid for them to mention Smash Bros. that way and then go "You're reading too much into it " The next day. I guess we can only hope that "Not that there's anything wrong with that" is just a mean joke like "Up until now".

 

[Zario777]

All I have to say to wrap up the arguement between Fatmanonice and KnuxRouge is that, if Brawl was meant to be "Fun" and not "Competitive", then I wouldn't like a game that was competitve and NOT fun.

But anyways, for SSB4, I gave Pokemon Trainer some better options:

I was thinking that you could either choose one from each Type, one from each evolution, both, or choose any 3. What do you guys think?

 

[Pieman0920]

Nope. Pokemon Trainer's three pokemon will remain as three Pokemon. If they are the three Pokemon from Brawl remains to be seen (I bet they'll stay the same) but there's no way there will be a mix and match thing going on. Its just too much set up ahead of time for something that really isn't needed. (Also too much focus on Gen 1 again)

And as far as that Twiter thing does, I really don't think it would relate to Brawl at all, outside of the same series thing. As I said before, if it actually does mean anything, I'd have to guess that it would be the long anticipated DS Smash game, since Brawl came out fairly recently, and there's no way its DLC.

 

[n88]

This whole Nintendo/Twitter thing is evil. It's like telling a dog he might get a treat, but he might not, and that the treat is a certain flavor, which happens to be the dog's favorite. (A CLassic example of a bad analogy)

Pokemon Trainer will retain the same Pokemon. We may get a 2nd PT, but the original willl not change dramatically.

 

[sammy p]

for the second pokemon trainor i like the idea of chimchar prinplup and torterra... anyone agree?

 

[Terra~]

@Fatmanonice

Well played. Not that I have anything against knuxrouge and I recognize why you defended yourself so well but the Fatman has many good points.

Many people don't realize exactly how much time and effort is put into a game. There's so much testing going on. They have to create a physical engine, graphics, code every GOD **** exception in the book. I swear it never ends. Also, Sakurai, having lead things, had some amount of control over how the game turned out, but with a whole ****load of people to look over, he couldn't put 100% of his time in 100% of the game. Simply put, if you like Melee and want to see another Melee, modify Melee and make it like you want it. Some people don't like Brawl so they're changing it to their liking. You CAN change the game so do it. But if you want Brawl to be Melee, go play Melee. Otherwise, make your lifes goal to create the game that YOU want. Congrats Fatman on your wisdom, no offence meant knux.

Now to get the ball rolling again. I want to see Geno, and I mean really really. I would really like to know what the Twitter deal truely meant. We'll all find out soon enough. BUT GENO OMG! GENO WHIRL

 

[ffdgh]

piplup for fast hits and grace?
monferno,4 speed and basic strength
torterra 4 brute force and some long ranged attacks

lol dawn in brawl

 

[Pieman0920]

Chikorita, Combusken, Empoleon seem better since it crosses generations. Plus, Johto and Hoenn need a bit of love, right?

(Still don't think we'll see another PT though)

 

[Terra~]

For the Piplup, Monferno and Torterra deal, I somehow feel that it would be Piplup, Grotle and Infernape.
Piplup is the "cute" starter 1st form. Infernape is probably the most recognized 3rd form of 4th gen. Also on a competitive level Charizard and Infernape are both generally more used than the other 2 of the same gen. Everyone hates grass pokémon, so they get the 2nd form. Not the cute little first form of the huge awesome 3rd form

 

[ffdgh]

lol monferno is a *playful pokemon* so he would fit well

screw piplup, add buizel XD and let all their shinys be avalable

 

[Pieman0920]

The real problem with a Piplup, Grotle and Infernape team is that its the exact same as the one we have in Brawl. First starter is water, second is grass, and third is fire. Sure there are technical differences from them and the gen 1 starters, but that's still way too close.

 

[Terra~]

I agree and that would be a good reason to change it up. Then again they could just be "clones"

Honestly I have a hard time seeing another PT but individual Pokémon, just maybe!

 

[Sukai]

No more Pokêmon, they are the biggest Nintendo rep in Brawl, and was tied with the Mario franchise in Melee and 64.
There are plenty, no more. If anything, replace some.

 

[ffdgh]

i want luigi's anweser to mario's peach XD
daisy
mario/peach vs luigi/daisy was always a hopeful

 

[pacmansays]

No more Pokêmon, they are the biggest Nintendo rep in Brawl, and was tied with the Mario franchise in Melee and 64.
There are plenty, no more. If anything, replace some.

Yeah I agree, Pokemon get a bit boring for me after a while and I think other franchises should get more light...

tbh, I'd rather have them introduce more franchises into brawl rather than just add to the existing ones

i want luigi's anweser to mario's peach XD
daisy
mario/peach vs luigi/daisy was always a hopeful

You can get a daisy outfit if you play as Peach, I don't think she's famous or distinct enough to earn her own individual place

 

[Sukai]

Daisy would have to be a powerhouse.

 

[ffdgh]

only peach's daisy alt is a true daisy imo

ahe can be a clons eithor so float ans veg is a no go

mario strickers charged move set?

melee alt

 

[Sukai]

Daisy is categorized as an athletic tomboy.
So I'm thinking something along the lines of Melee Captain Falcon.
Fast and Powerful.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I really wouldn't bet on Daisy, it's not going to happen. She's not a significant enough Mario character, only appearing once in a canon game at the very end. She's only been a spinoff character since. There are way more deserving characters than Daisy to represent the Mario series.

I agree with Knuxrouge on the Pokemon debate. We have enough as it is, instead of adding more you can probably expect to see a few replaced ones (Lucario and possibly the Pokemon Trainer).

Also, about Nintendo/Twitter, has anyone thought that we really don't know that NOA set up the account? I could be wrong, but I never saw any reference of NOA on the page... It could just be a group of fans, but I could be wrong...

 

[ffdgh]

they put marth and roy into melee and look how fire emblem moved to america

they can use the next ssb to increase her popularity to the point she.....get into the next main game

 

[justaway12]

Really the only Pokemon I see leaving is POSSIBLY Lucario, Pokemon Trainer is technically the main character of all the games, I wouldn't really be suprised if Pokemon did get 1 new pokemon as it is the second most popular selling game in Nintendo, behind Mario.

Really the all the Pokemon deserve to be in there except possibly Lucario.

Spoiler

Hopefully the Jigglypuff debate would be long gone

 

[n88]

I think they should make alternate costumes for characters that are more than just recolors. This way, we could get all of the characters removed from Melee back (except Mewtwo), plus more. Here are some ideas:

Mario - Dr. Mario
Luigi - Mr.L
Peach - Daisy
Bowser - Dry Bowser
Donkey Kong - Funky Kong
Diddy Kong - Dixie Kong
Yoshi - Boshi
Zelda/Sheik - Nayru/Din
Toon Link - Young Link
Samus - Dark Samus

There are others that could be done, but I'm getting tired of typing.

As for Pokemon, Mewtwo should return, Lucario should be replaced by someone more up to date.