[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Mario the Jumpman]

Do any of you guys know what Nintendo should do? Buy back Rareware (or at least buy out the Banjo-Kazooie series), that way we can finally play as the bear-and-bird duo, Banjo-Kazooie in Smash 4. Fans of both B-K and Smash would love it so much. And I know the duo's chances of appearing in Smash 4 is slim to none. But if Nintendo owned Rareware before they sold it to Microsoft (bad idea by the way) and they created both Melee and the original Smash before Rareware was sold, why didn't Banjo and Kazooie appear in the first two games of the Smash series?

 

[majora_787]

I'm just going to say this now, I'd like to see The World Ends With You get a little bit of representation in Smash 4.

Just my opinion. It has options in virtually every category.

Don't judge me.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Lip.

Spoiler

10lips

Not to be a douche but I think Takamaru would appeal to a lot more people. He's basically Samurai Jack with magic abilities while Lip... is Lip. Not to say that they both couldn't get in but if it were left down to those two, I think a lot more people would go with Takamaru since he fits the "fighter" bill better as it is.

@ Majora:

If Square Enix were to get a rep, it would probably be someone from the Crystal Chronicle games at this point. The World Ends With You is an awesome game but it definately doesn't deserve top billing to represent the entire company.

 

[majora_787]

Not to be a douche but I think Takamaru would appeal to a lot more people. He's basically Samurai Jack with magic abilities while Lip... is Lip. Not to say that they both couldn't get in but if it were left down to those two, I think a lot more people would go with Takamaru since he fits the "fighter" bill better as it is.

@ Majora:

If Square Enix were to get a rep, it would probably be someone from the Crystal Chronicle games at this point. The World Ends With You is an awesome game but it definately doesn't deserve top billing to represent the entire company.

I can dream. I know a lot of other series would probably get the top spot if SE even GETS a spot. But still, TWEWY has options for EVERYTHING a series could add to the game. I wouldn't mind fighting in front of the 109....or the 104, I guess it would be...

Plus, I'm sure a lot of people who played the game would like to kick Joshua in the face.

 

[Clownbot]

Japanese characters?

Eh... as mentioned, we have Lip and Takamaru, as well as Sukapon and Captain Rainbow...

And then there are ones that used to be Japan exclusives, like Starfy and S&P characters, but are now getting American releases...

 

[lordvaati]

@Mario the jumpman
well, Rare's report card as of late with Microsoft was pretty bad. Kameo was eh. GBTG was called the worst Rare game ever. and Viva Pinata and BK: Nuts and Bolts sold suprisingly few copies. Plus after leaving Microsoft, Peter Moore said that Rare couldn't succeed because they are stuck in the past, and before he was defending them. they might have to go back to Nintendo.

@majora 787
Unfortunately, since Square is third party, they can only have one rep. and if they do put one in, it willmost likely be Cloud or Geno.

 

[Clownbot]

@majora 787
Unfortunately, since Square is third party, they can only have one rep. and if they do put one in, it willmost likely be Cloud or Geno.

Wrongness.

I mean everyone has their chances, but Cloud has EXTREMELY little past with Nintendo, and there are literally a dozen Mario characters who deserve to be playable more than Geno.

EDIT: At the cost of my life, I am officially a Smash Journeyman. W00t!

 

[SkylerOcon]

If Square Enix were to get a rep, it would probably be someone from the Crystal Chronicle games at this point. The World Ends With You is an awesome game but it definately doesn't deserve top billing to represent the entire company.

I'd lean more towards Crono or Cecil when it comes to Square Enix. Most people don't really care all that much about Crystal Chronicles (though it has it's fans), but Chrono Trigger is considered one of the best games ever made and has had a recent remake for the DS. Final Fantasy IV is considered to be one of the better Final Fantasy's (my personal second favorite), and has had a sequel for WiiWare and a remake for the DS.

And then... Well, I can't even NAME a Crystal Chronicles character.

 

[Wizzerd]

I quite agree with Clownbot. Cloud had one minor cameo in Kingdom Hearts for GBA. As for Crono, as cool as he would be, he isn't quite significant enough to be a third party. His game may be great, but if game goodness was a factor Cloud would deserve it even less and Sonic would be cut.

Also, Chocobo is also pretty reasonable as a Square Enix rep. Chocobo has a series of his/her/its own (Chocobo Mystery Dungeon) and is significant in Final Fantasy, though Megaman and Simon Belmont should get in before.

 

[BG3]

Has anyone ever thought of redoing Wario's moveset? To me it doesn't seem like the moveset they gave him reflects his abilities. I mean when did he ever bite or fart as an attack, and when did he ever appear as Wario-man? Just a thought.

 

[WolfCypher]

I've heard (again, no source) that Pit was originally in Smash 64, and Jiggs just replaced him because Pokemon was so popular.

False (Click Here)

 

[Clownbot]

I quite agree with Clownbot. Cloud had one minor cameo in Kingdom Hearts for GBA. As for Crono, as cool as he would be, he isn't quite significant enough to be a third party. His game may be great, but if game goodness was a factor Cloud would deserve it even less and Sonic would be cut.

Well, there's probably some sort of middle ground here.

You see, what with Crono's game being revered as a great RPG, he's become a memorable character in the Square department, and therefore, does have (at least a little more) possibility as being playable.

Also, despite the annoying voice acting, I think we should be thankful that Sonic got a moveset that was based more around the classic games, which were AWESOME.

Spoiler

Also, thanks for the MYM move tip. I look forward to getting a full review when you get back.

Also, Chocobo is also pretty reasonable as a Square Enix rep. Chocobo has a series of his/her/its own (Chocobo Mystery Dungeon) and is significant in Final Fantasy, though Megaman and Simon Belmont should get in before.

0_o

Chocobo had its own game?

Interesting.

Spoiler

Chocobo for top tier!

 

[Wizzerd]

It's very odd, I know. Maybe I'll make Chocobo for MYM... You're right, Crono's game was memorable, but I just don't see him as a Square rep over Chocobo or Slime (Dragon Quest). Also, Sonic's set was so obviously rushed, he rolls up into a ball for nearly every move. His Bair is stolen from every generic kick in existence, his Fair is from Falco, his Uair from Samus and the Dair is a generic stall-then-fall.

Spoiler

You're welcome. The move was really cool.

 

[lordvaati]

Has anyone ever thought of redoing Wario's moveset? To me it doesn't seem like the moveset they gave him reflects his abilities. I mean when did he ever bite or fart as an attack, and when did he ever appear as Wario-man? Just a thought.

its because his moves were based off his warioware persona. the them with Warioware was random stuff that made little sense, thus hi moveset.


also, holy crap, I forgot about Chrono. now that i think about it, it would make sense(seeing as he was the first ever Square Enix character) but I wonder if they'll keep his Toriyama-style look or change it like what they did with Pit.

 

[SkylerOcon]

It's very odd, I know. Maybe I'll make Chocobo for MYM... You're right, Crono's game was memorable, but I just don't see him as a Square rep over Chocobo or Slime (Dragon Quest). Also, Sonic's set was so obviously rushed, he rolls up into a ball for nearly every move. His Bair is stolen from every generic kick in existence, his Fair is from Falco, his Uair from Samus and the Dair is a generic stall-then-fall.

Spoiler

You're welcome. The move was really cool.

Chocobo won't get in for the same reason Toad won't get in - he's a generic NPC race from a game. It would just be a bit... awkward to have one in, instead of a recognizable and popular Square-Enix character.

 

[DemonFart]

Has anyone ever thought of redoing Wario's moveset? To me it doesn't seem like the moveset they gave him reflects his abilities. I mean when did he ever bite or fart as an attack, and when did he ever appear as Wario-man? Just a thought.

SOMEBODY needs to play more Warioware games....

 

[sundayseclipse]

Has anyone ever thought of redoing Wario's moveset? To me it doesn't seem like the moveset they gave him reflects his abilities. I mean when did he ever bite or fart as an attack, and when did he ever appear as Wario-man? Just a thought.

warios just fine and wario wario man ... if your talking about when hes in his purple suit, the game was wario man of mystery. also when did wario fart or bite....hmm when did rob shot lazers , when did mario upercut u and coins comeout, when did luigi shoot out like a torpedo....my point exacualy.

dude thxs for the link, your awsome.

and vaati you said its a 3rd party and can only have one rep.... ima let you on a secret... once is not a trend, and no one officaly annouced that to be true.


hmmm toad can be playable its just recent games that make him look like a ****** spaz slave to princess

 

[Clownbot]

hmmm toad can be playable its just recent games that make him look like a ****** spaz slave to princess

Really, the games have always done that.

Nevertheless, Toad has his chances, having had significant roles in the past, as well as being the only one of the Mario series' Big Eight to not be playable.

 

[mariofanpm12]

with those 2 new toads in new super mario bros wii that actually have names and personalities, i think that toad has a chance, if only as an assist trophy. its about time he gets out of peach's dress

 

[Big-Cat]

Which five characters of Brawl's roster do you guys think have the greatest chance of being removed? I think these characters are the ones that Nintendo might most likely remove (and I'm not saying that I want all these characters removed): Ike, Wolf, Lucario, Toon Link, and Lucas. Snake and Sonic have a chance of being removed as well, since they're third-party characters.

As Fatmanonice said, no default character has been removed from the roster and my guess is that it will be like that. Therefore, I think the most likely are Wolf, Lucario, and Toon Link. I think Wolf might get cut for Krystal. Lucario may or may not get cut for a new gen Pokemon. Toon Link will simply be succeeded by the new Young Link.

also, holy crap, I forgot about Chrono. now that i think about it, it would make sense(seeing as he was the first ever Square Enix character) but I wonder if they'll keep his Toriyama-style look or change it like what they did with Pit.

Chrono Trigger existed years before Square Enix came to be. It wasn't until the early 21st century that Square and Enix merged.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Japanese characters?

Eh... as mentioned, we have Lip and Takamaru, as well as Sukapon and Captain Rainbow...

And then there are ones that used to be Japan exclusives, like Starfy and S&P characters, but are now getting American releases...

Captain Rainbow's doomed to obscurity and Sakurai has now said twice that Sukapon would be too hard to impliment into Smash Bros thanks to his character design.

Add in: As for Crono, I really wonder if his copyright issues have been completely cleared up. In 2006, Square Enix said that re-releasing Chrono Trigger would be a legal mess because almost none of the people who originally helped developed it work for Square Enix anymore. As we all know, it was re-released for the DS earlier this year so it does make me wonder...

 

[lordvaati]

As Fatmanonice said, no default character has been removed from the roster and my guess is that it will be like that. Therefore, I think the most likely are Wolf, Lucario, and Toon Link. I think Wolf might get cut for Krystal. Lucario may or may not get cut for a new gen Pokemon. Toon Link will simply be succeeded by the new Young Link.



Chrono Trigger existed years before Square Enix came to be. It wasn't until the early 21st century that Square and Enix merged.

true, but it was the first game Square and Enix made together, thus making the first Square Enix character.(in a sense)

 

[Clownbot]

Captain Rainbow's doomed to obscurity and Sakurai has now said twice that Sukapon would be too hard to impliment into Smash Bros thanks to his character design.

Thanks a lot for shooting down my suggestions. You know, I cried when I read this post.

But in all seriousness, doesn't obscurity (in some instances) actually help your chances? Increase game sales, maybe bring a Japan exclusive over to America?

 

[lordvaati]

tell that to the Mother series.

 

[Big-Cat]

tell that to the Mother series.

It didn't work for MOTHER because Nintendo is being incredibly stupid with handling this series outside of Japan. There's a demand, but NOA doesn't want to bring it. Earthbound won't be put on the VC because a number of the tracks sample from licensed music and NOA wants to change the music, but NOJ says no.

However, Fire Emblem was exported out of Japan because of Smash.

true, but it was the first game Square and Enix made together, thus making the first Square Enix character.(in a sense)

Enix had nothing to do with it. Akira Toriyama, according to Wiki and the game Blue Dragon, is a freelancer. He did not have to have loyalty to the Dragon Quest series.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Thanks a lot for shooting down my suggestions. You know, I cried when I read this post.

But in all seriousness, doesn't obscurity (in some instances) actually help your chances? Increase game sales, maybe bring a Japan exclusive over to America?

Not really, no. Captain Rainbow sold terribly in Japan and NOA would probably be too squimish of the game's content to bring it over here. I think that's the reason why Mother 3 hasn't been brought over either and they're too afraid to admit it. (Mother 3 has some gay and transgender motifs in it and, despite them being minor, they probably expect Americans to over-react to them if it was brought over here.)

Add in: I know you're referring to Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, the Legendary Stafy, Animal Crossing, and Custom Robo but those series did fairly well in Japan before coming over here. Marth and Roy in Melee created a demand for Fire Emblem which worked very well in their favor because it was a low risk investment; Captain Rainbow, on the other hand, would be extremelly risky for a plethora of reasons.

 

[Clownbot]

Not really, no. Captain Rainbow sold terribly in Japan and NOA would probably be too squimish of the game's content to bring it over here. I think that's the reason why Mother 3 hasn't been brought over either and they're too afraid to admit it. (Mother 3 has some gay and transgender motifs in it and, despite them being minor, they probably expect Americans to over-react to them if it was brought over here.)

Add in: I know you're referring to Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, the Legendary Stafy, Animal Crossing, and Custom Robo but those series did fairly well in Japan before coming over here. Marth and Roy in Melee created a demand for Fire Emblem which worked very well in their favor because it was a low risk investment; Captain Rainbow, on the other hand, would be extremelly risky for a plethora of reasons.

Yeah, I guess I understand. Really, as far as Japan-only characters go, Sukapon and Captain Rainbow were the only ones I could think of other than the already-mentioned ones, so I just threw them in regardless of my standpoint on their chances.

In fact, are there even any others aside from those?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, I guess I understand. Really, as far as Japan-only characters go, Sukapon and Captain Rainbow were the only ones I could think of other than the already-mentioned ones, so I just threw them in regardless of my standpoint on their chances.

In fact, are there even any others aside from those?

Truth be told, not really unless you wanted to go into really obscure territory like Wanda the fairy, Demille (who would actually be really cool) from Tomato Adventure, various Fire Emblem characters like Sigurd, and Doshin the giant. There are a few obscure characters from other regions too like Mike Jones from Startropics and Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land.

 

[Clownbot]

Truth be told, not really unless you wanted to go into really obscure territory like Wanda the fairy, Demille (who would actually be really cool) from Tomato Adventure, various Fire Emblem characters like Sigurd, and Doshin the giant. There are a few obscure characters from other regions too like Mike Jones from Startropics and Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land.

Believe it or not, you just made me think of another obscure Japan-only character with the mention of Doshin the Giant (both were trophies in Melee): Donbe & Hikari.

Of course, I don't realize how important they are, so...

Also, the last two characters you mentioned actually WOULD make good retro reps imo. And Clu Clu Land was actually released in Japan as well (as Kuru Kuru Land, to be exact), so Bubbles might have a (small) chance, unless we're talking "WTF" characters, in which case she'd be an EXCELLENT choice.

Spoiler

As a matter of fact, I was planning on doing a MYM set for her.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I think Baloon Fighter should be a representative for a classic series, but at this point that looks grim

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

For the topic I started for playable Japanese characters in SSB4, would anybody expect Donbe from Shin Onigashima as a playable character? The Shin Onigashima song from Brawl was awesome.

 

[Wizzerd]

Chocobo won't get in for the same reason Toad won't get in - he's a generic NPC race from a game. It would just be a bit... awkward to have one in, instead of a recognizable and popular Square-Enix character.

That's true, but Chocobo has lost some genericness from Chocobo Mystery Dungeon. In my opinion, the best options for Square Enix third parties are Slime... and Chocobo. Besides, there still is a Chocobo called "Chocobo" from Chocobo Mystery Dungeon, I believe, and the "Toad" died long ago.

 

[Pieman0920]

Chocobo's analogy in the Mario-verse is closer to Yoshi than it is to Toad, so I do think there's a chance for the bird. Both are ridabe animals who due to their popularity, eventually got spin off games of their own, away from the core series. Thus, I really wouldn't be too surprised if it was the representative of SE.

 

[Clownbot]

I agree. The "true" Chocobo has been around latelier than the true Toad (even though I still think he'd be a legitimate representative), and it would actually be pretty fun to play as him imo.

 

[Heartz♥]

Chocobo? I can see that, to be honest. Which is a surprise since I am quick to say that Final Fantasy only has a snowball's chance in Hades in Smash. lol

 

[drag0nscythe]

Lil mac shoul be retro rep.
Isaac, Stafy, Ray Mk3, Andy should be new series reps.
Diskun should be the next system rep. (he has wicked moveset potential. Being flat like paper. Let him bend, ley him fold. Let him be like paper mario in the Paper mario games.)

 

[Big-Cat]

Why should Little Mac be a retro character anymore? He was just brought back last month.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Is Pit still a retro character?

 

[Big-Cat]

Is Pit still a retro character?

Assuming Kid Icarus Wii does not exist despite the rumors, then he is a retro character since his last game was in the early 90's.

 

[BlublacMH]

My wishlist

Characters:
BLACK MAGE
Krystal (replacing Wolf)
Mewtwo (replacing Lucario and buffed)
Ganondorf (given his own moveset)
Toon Link (given some of his WW/PH items)
Megaman
Issac (from Golden Sun)
No more ROB
Original 12 get seniority buffs (Link and Mario especially, why are the two most popular heroes two of the worst chars in the game?!)
Derek Stiles (from Trauma Center) as a WTF character

Stages:
Bowswer's Castle
Hyrule Caste from SSB64 returning
Brawl's Battlefield should return

Misc:
Cut out stickers, masterpieces, TRIPPING, chronicle, & rotation mode
Make water attacks do damage
Try harder for balance (no one or two characters should be unbeatable)
Bring back the end of fight bonuses
Bring back character specific break the targets, race to the finish, and trophy catch
Better, harder events (more Trophy Tussles would be appreciated)
At least 40 Characters

If these things happen (or at least most of them), SSB4 will be the best game ever