[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Clownbot]

I just noticed this.

For the topic I started for playable Japanese characters in SSB4, would anybody expect Donbe from Shin Onigashima as a playable character? The Shin Onigashima song from Brawl was awesome.

Is it just a coincidence that you posted that, like, two posts after I brought Donbe & Hikari up?

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

I just noticed this.



Is it just a coincidence that you posted that, like, two posts after I brought Donbe & Hikari up?

I'm sorry, but the post wasn't there at the time I posted the response you're talking about.

To BlublacMH: Do you have any ideas for Derek Stiles's Specials and Final Smash?

 

[Clownbot]

It's all good, just curious.

On Derek Stiles... there is such a thing as being too "WTF".

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

A Nintendog could be a WTF character.

Also, Stiles could be a great character. He could fight with a giant scapel (is that what you call those cutting knife thingies?), throw siringes filled with poison, and one of his Specials could be a defibrilator. His Final Smash could involve a type of deadly virus. I know he never did stuff like that in his own franchise, but this is Super Smash Bros.; you never know what to expect.

 

[Pieman0920]

On the note of Diskun, can that thing actually move? Was it ever in a real game? I don't see how something like that could have any moveset pottential if it can't even move.

Oh, and since someone brought it up again, Mewtwo won't be replacing Lucario in the next game. Its pretty obvious that Mewtwo was cut due to a combination of the four representative limit, as well as the large amount of first gen Pokemon that are already in. If anything, Mewtwo didn't compete with Lucario, but rather Jigglypuff, which is hinted by the fact that Jiggs herself was a somewhat late inclusion. In the end, I guess they chose Jiggs because she was more popular with Smashers, had a more unique fghting style, and had been in both SSB games before Brawl.

 

[Clownbot]

On the note of Diskun, can that thing actually move? Was it ever in a real game? I don't see how something like that could have any moveset pottential if it can't even move.

R.O.B. didn't start as a VG character. Captain Falcon never left his car in the F-Zero games. Peach only got captured. Olimar was never exactly fighter material.

I'm not saying I think Diskun should get in, but this isn't a very solid argument against him.

Oh, and since someone brought it up again, Mewtwo won't be replacing Lucario in the next game. Its pretty obvious that Mewtwo was cut due to a combination of the four representative limit, as well as the large amount of first gen Pokemon that are already in. If anything, Mewtwo didn't compete with Lucario, but rather Jigglypuff, which is hinted by the fact that Jiggs herself was a somewhat late inclusion. In the end, I guess they chose Jiggs because she was more popular with Smashers, had a more unique fghting style, and had been in both SSB games before Brawl.

Mewtwo was one of the classic pokemon. He was one of the first legendaries, and was the hardest pokemon to catch in the original games (without using the Master Ball, of course). Also, I've never heard of the "four-character limit". At this point, he probably deserves to be playable more than Jigglypuff and Lucario, especially when the new generation rolls around.

 

[Pieman0920]

R.O.B. didn't start as a VG character. Captain Falcon never left his car in the F-Zero games. Peach only got captured. Olimar was never exactly fighter material.

I'm not saying I think Diskun should get in, but this isn't a very solid argument against him.

...But they can well....Move. I asked if Diskun had his own game, because at the least then he'd have proof of being able to move those things which I assume are legs. As far as I know, he's basically a flat gold figurine. Diskun isn't like any of those other characters at all because of that, unless you think that you can create a moveset for a T-Model.

Mewtwo was one of the classic pokemon. He was one of the first legendaries, and was the hardest pokemon to catch in the original games (without using the Master Ball, of course). Also, I've never heard of the "four-character limit". At this point, he probably deserves to be playable more than Jigglypuff and Lucario, especially when the new generation rolls around.

Good for him to have all those things going for him. They got him into SSBM. Doesn't change that he got canned for Brawl though. The four character limit is something that happened for Brawl, and isn't related to a pottential SSB4, but is probably why Mewtwo got cut. But I must wonder why you think he will be more deserving once the new generation rolls around, since that makes no sense. Quite frankly, his chances are getting worse with time, unless something special turns up.

 

[Clownbot]

...But they can well....Move. I asked if Diskun had his own game, because at the least then he'd have proof of being able to move those things which I assume are legs. As far as I know, he's basically a flat gold figurine. Diskun isn't like any of those other characters at all because of that, unless you think that you can create a moveset for a T-Model.

I could easily see Diskun being able to move in a similar way to Mr. Game & Watch.

Good for him to have all those things going for him. They got him into SSBM. Doesn't change that he got canned for Brawl though. The four character limit is something that happened for Brawl, and isn't related to a pottential SSB4, but is probably why Mewtwo got cut. But I must wonder why you think he will be more deserving once the new generation rolls around, since that makes no sense. Quite frankly, his chances are getting worse with time, unless something special turns up.

With a new generation, one of Brawl's Pokemon reps is likely to get the axe to make way for a pokemon from the latest generation. Perhaps that was a bad reason for Mewtwo to come back, given that it wouldn't make sense to cut one character for two, but if there IS a four-character limit for SSB4, Jigglypuff and Lucario are the Pokemon reps most likely to get cut.

Also, aside from being cut for Brawl, I don't think Mewtwo's chances are getting worse with time. Being one of the original pokemon, he is a classic and will only become more of one as time goes on.

 

[BlublacMH]

Derek's FS would be the Healing Touch. Everybody would slow down and Derek would wreck havoc. Ill have to get back to you with the moveset. Now on to Mewtwo, it doesnt matter how many generations come out, certain Pokemon (like Pika, Jiggly, and Mewtwo) never lose popularity. Its these fad pokemon (Lucario, Deoxys) who become irrelevant as soon as that gen collects dust. The first gen pokemon are icons, it shouldnt matter how many of the reps come from that gen, they deserve it.

 

[metaXzero]

Jiggs is one of the classic 12. Can't see her being cut. Lucario however may get cut for another Pokemon.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just to clarify, Diskun was just a mascot while Mr. Game and Watch was actually playable in a good 20+ games. In that sense, you can't really compare the two.

 

[Jimnymebob]

If Jigglypuff gets cut for Mewtwo, then I will cry.

Seriously, I will have a breakdown.

Jigglypuff getting cut is like cutting Luigi, Captain Falcon, Link, Samus, Fox, Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Yoshi, Kirby and Ness. It won't happen.

 

[Clownbot]

Just to clarify, Diskun was just a mascot while Mr. Game and Watch was actually playable in a good 20+ games. In that sense, you can't really compare the two.

We were discussing how Diskun could move in battle. His chances of getting in, compared to G&W, are another story.

If Jigglypuff gets cut for Mewtwo, then I will cry.

Seriously, I will have a breakdown.

Jigglypuff getting cut is like cutting Luigi, Captain Falcon, Link, Samus, Fox, Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Yoshi, Kirby and Ness. It won't happen.

No, it's not. The characters you mentioned either have more staying power in their own respective series, or represent their series well.

Jigglypuff, despite being a classic pokemon, doesn't deserve to be playable more than Mewtwo. If it weren't for the whole "original 12" thing (which I believe to be a bunch of poppycock), a LOT of people would probably favor Mewtwo's inclusion at the risk of Jigglypuff getting cut.

In addition, she doesn't represent the series very well, if you ask me. Her time has gone; she's no longer in the anime, and she was supposedly almost cut from Brawl.

Regardless, it probably won't happen anyway, as Jigglypuff's developed too much of a following to be cut.

 

[Jimnymebob]

No, it's not. The characters you mentioned either have more staying power in their own respective series, or represent their series well.

Jigglypuff, despite being a classic pokemon, doesn't deserve to be playable more than Mewtwo. If it weren't for the whole "original 12" thing (which I believe to be a bunch of poppycock), a LOT of people would probably favor Mewtwo's inclusion at the risk of Jigglypuff getting cut.

In addition, she doesn't represent the series very well, if you ask me. Her time has gone; she's no longer in the anime, and she was supposedly almost cut from Brawl.

Regardless, it probably won't happen anyway, as Jigglypuff's developed too much of a following to be cut.

The only two I could see having a probability getting cut would be Ness, and Jigglypuff but after 10 years I think this would be unlikely.

Jigglypuff may not be important in the anime but it still a hugely popular Pokemon, especially in Japan where SSB is made. Jigglypuff may not deserve to be playable over Mewtwo, but tell me this- does Mewtwo deserve to be playable over Jigglypuff?

 

[Big-Cat]

Oh, and since someone brought it up again, Mewtwo won't be replacing Lucario in the next game. Its pretty obvious that Mewtwo was cut due to a combination of the four representative limit, as well as the large amount of first gen Pokemon that are already in. If anything, Mewtwo didn't compete with Lucario, but rather Jigglypuff, which is hinted by the fact that Jiggs herself was a somewhat late inclusion. In the end, I guess they chose Jiggs because she was more popular with Smashers, had a more unique fghting style, and had been in both SSB games before Brawl.

Okay, this whole representative thinking has gone too far for too long. I doubt Mewtwo's exclusion was due to the so-called four character limit rule. Besides, we had Dr. Mario in the last game giving the Mario series five character slots. If there's any character limit, the limit lies in how many Mario character slots there are in the game.

I think Mewtwo was removed for this:

The Pokemon Company wanted Lucario in more than any other character except possibly Pikachu. With the Pokemon Trainer well cemented into the roster, this meant that only one more Pokemon character could get in. Otherwise, the Pokemon series would have more characters than Nintendo's flagship series.

From the looks of things, Mewtwo was planned from the very beginning of development considering that he and Roy are the only two of the Seven Deadly Fighters who were scheduled to have their own victory themes. The only character on the roster not planned for this was Wolf. It can't be determined, but it is possible that Mewtwo may have been further in development than Jigglypuff was at one point. This can explain why he's the only one out of the Seven Deadly Fighters to have a classic screen.

With Mewtwo possibly being further in development, it's quite possible that he was a major part of the SSE. One user on IGN, I believe, theorized that Rayquaza, a normally benign Pokemon, attacked the characters because of Mewtwo's influence. With this is mind, this does fill up a very peculiar plot hole. He may also have been behind Porky's random appearance considering that Pokemon and MOTHER had a big connection in the SSE.

However, when Lucario came into the picture, Sakurai had to come to a decision: scrap Mewtwo, or scrap Jigglypuff. Obviously, he scrapped Mewtwo, but the other choice might have happened if Jigglypuff did not have her original 12 status. It's possible that the decision was pretty late in development considering, as some have said, that Jigglypuff was rushed and she has no role in the SSE.

In a sense, Mewtwo's removal may be blamed on the Mario series not having a new character like Bowser Jr.

 

[Pieman0920]

I could easily see Diskun being able to move in a similar way to Mr. Game & Watch.

And what would its pose change to? It doesn't have arms. It just has a head, two giant eyes, and two nubs for feet. It can't pull out various random things like G&W does, due to not only not having been in the games that the random junk is a refference to, but also because it has no arms to pull anything out with.

With a new generation, one of Brawl's Pokemon reps is likely to get the axe to make way for a pokemon from the latest generation. Perhaps that was a bad reason for Mewtwo to come back, given that it wouldn't make sense to cut one character for two, but if there IS a four-character limit for SSB4, Jigglypuff and Lucario are the Pokemon reps most likely to get cut.

Also, aside from being cut for Brawl, I don't think Mewtwo's chances are getting worse with time. Being one of the original pokemon, he is a classic and will only become more of one as time goes on.

Sure those two are the most likely in comparison to Pika and PT, but that doesn't mean they would get cut in favor of Mewtwo. If that were the case, we wouldn't be talking about this at all, as Mewtwo would be in.

And yes his chances do decrease over time, because while he may be a classic Pokemon, we already have 5 of those in Brawl, with only 1 from another gen. The next Smash may or may not keep all the Pokemon characters from Brawl, but if it does add in a new character, it will certainly not be a first gen.

And for Kuma Oso's comments, the four character limit, as I said, was a Brawl thing. It doesn't really reflect on the past of future games. I also don't quite think that Pokemon got four because Mario did, because under that circumstance, they could have just thrown Doc back in, and that'd be that, though it still could be a possibility.

In any case, I very much doubt that Mewtwo had a significant, if any role in SSE. If he did, then he should have just gotten in over Jigglypuff, who had no role what so ever. If I had my quess, it'd be that both were not planned at all, and the story was made without them, as at the time, they didn't know who they would pick. Lucario on the other hand was probably decided much longer than either of the two, and that's why it was never about Mewtwo vs Lucario, due to it other wise being completely Gen 1, but rather Mewtwo vs. Jiggs.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I wouldn't be surprized if Mewtwo was removed simply because the developers didn't want to put all the work into improving him. You have to admit, for being the most powerful pokemon until the fourth generation (now he's the second), he had a God awful moveset and his stats weren't too great either. In order to be made better, the character pretty much needed a complete overhaul and, considering how Sakurai only spent three days deciding the roster anyways, I don't he wanted to put that much work into one character.

 

[Clownbot]

The only two I could see having a probability getting cut would be Ness, and Jigglypuff but after 10 years I think this would be unlikely.

Jigglypuff may not be important in the anime but it still a hugely popular Pokemon, especially in Japan where SSB is made. Jigglypuff may not deserve to be playable over Mewtwo, but tell me this- does Mewtwo deserve to be playable over Jigglypuff?

It might just be me, but your last sentence didn't seem to make any sense.

If Jigglypuff doesn't deserve to be playable over Mewtwo, Mewtwo deserves to be playable over Jigglypuff.

 

[majora_787]

It might just be me, but your last sentence didn't seem to make any sense.

If Jigglypuff doesn't deserve to be playable over Mewtwo, Mewtwo deserves to be playable over Jigglypuff.

He's asking wether or not you think they're equal or if you think Mewtwo is really better.

I personally believe Mewtwo gets a leg up on Jiggs for being legendary and having a movie, not different from Lucario.

 

[Clownbot]

He's asking wether or not you think they're equal or if you think Mewtwo is really better.

I personally believe Mewtwo gets a leg up on Jiggs for being legendary and having a movie, not different from Lucario.

In that case, Mewtwo is better.

Also, Lucario's not legendary.

 

[majora_787]

In that case, Mewtwo is better.

Also, Lucario's not legendary.

Isn't legendary pretty much just a term for one-of-a-kind? Or at least rare? It's not like there's a route 536 or something where you catch Lucario like it's a....uhm....Something on the first route of the game.

Haha. Haven't played a pokemon game in so long.

 

[Clownbot]

Isn't legendary pretty much just a term for one-of-a-kind? Or at least rare? It's not like there's a route 536 or something where you catch Lucario like it's a....uhm....Something on the first route of the game.

Haha. Haven't played a pokemon game in so long.

ZOMG!

Wobbufet and Eevee are legendary!

Anyway...

SSB4 stage ideas, anyone?

 

[Fatmanonice]

ZOMG!

Wobbufet and Eevee are legendary!

Anyway...

SSB4 stage ideas, anyone?

The only one I've really thought of extensively is a Super Mario Galaxy stage. It's pretty much guarenteed to happen at this point but I wonder what direction they would go with it. I wonder if it would be possible to do a stage in the shape of a sphere with a gravitational pull without it being too frustrating to KO people?

 

[Pieman0920]

A Galaxy stage would be nice, though how it would implament gravity is still a good question. Other stages though...

Bowser's Castle: Why this hasn't shown up yet is beyond me. Lots of traps, lava, and what not. It practically writes itself.

Mushroom Kingdom III: Based on SMB3. I was really hoping that this would show up in Brawl, so I was a bit dissapointed that we got Mushroomy Kingdom instead. Still, its not too late for some SMB3 representation, right? ....Right?

Mario Kart Stage: Okay, I don't like place holders, and this is one of them, but I'll say that the general idea is that its based around Toad's Turnpike. The reason I didn't just say Toad's Turnpike though is that I'd much have Rainbow Road. The reason why I didn't say Rainbow Road though is because I'm saying there should be a Galaxy stage. Because of that, there's RR gets redundant, and thus I have to pick the next best thing for Mario Kart.

Tower Climb: No one probably knows what this is, but its from Yoshi's Story, and thus my nomination for the new Yoshi level. While it doesn't really scream "Yoshi's Island" like past stages have, it'd be a change from those same old island backdrops. I'd also assume that the stage would scroll up or down with the tower, and while I know not many people like that, it's something that's going to be in, like it or not. Alternativly Piranha Grove would be a good choice....Actually Yoshi's Story has quite a few good backdrops.

Sauria: Aka Dinosaur Planet. Just the ground level will do, with some Dinosaurs in the background, or as stage hazards.

I'll probably think of more later, but right now I'm feeling a bit lazy.

 

[sundayseclipse]

im still gona say make from star tropics. he had a sequel, and idc if he was an america only rellease. -,- mike for ssb4 -,-

 

[Fatmanonice]

Another idea I've had is an Ocarina of Time stage that works like Castle Siege where, after a certain time frame, you warp to a location based on one of the six sage temples. Even now, I'm still shocked that OoT has never been represented by a stage. Some people would argue that Hyrule Castle in the original did that but I still say that stage followed a Link to the Past motif more than Ocarina of Time.

@ sundayseclipse:

Yes, Star Tropics was an American exclusive.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Star Tropic might be a good idea, but who ever heard of Mike Jones. †

 

[Clownbot]

A Galaxy stage would be nice, though how it would implament gravity is still a good question. Other stages though...

Bowser's Castle: Why this hasn't shown up yet is beyond me. Lots of traps, lava, and what not. It practically writes itself.

THIS.

Seriously, I don't realize why it hasn't been done either. It's beyond me as well.

Mushroom Kingdom III: Based on SMB3. I was really hoping that this would show up in Brawl, so I was a bit dissapointed that we got Mushroomy Kingdom instead. Still, its not too late for some SMB3 representation, right? ....Right?

Of course it's not too late! SMB2 got a stage for Melee despite being released years before even the first Smash, and the 3rd SMB was arguably definitely the best of the NES Mario games.

Mario Kart Stage: Okay, I don't like place holders, and this is one of them, but I'll say that the general idea is that its based around Toad's Turnpike. The reason I didn't just say Toad's Turnpike though is that I'd much have Rainbow Road. The reason why I didn't say Rainbow Road though is because I'm saying there should be a Galaxy stage. Because of that, there's RR gets redundant, and thus I have to pick the next best thing for Mario Kart.

I think the current MK stage is fine; if it had to be done, however, Rainbow Road would probably be the best option.

Tower Climb: No one probably knows what this is, but its from Yoshi's Story, and thus my nomination for the new Yoshi level. While it doesn't really scream "Yoshi's Island" like past stages have, it'd be a change from those same old island backdrops. I'd also assume that the stage would scroll up or down with the tower, and while I know not many people like that, it's something that's going to be in, like it or not. Alternativly Piranha Grove would be a good choice....Actually Yoshi's Story has quite a few good backdrops.

It might be my bias for Yoshi's Story, but I'm likin' this idea. Probably not gonna happen, but it would definitely be fun to see.

Sauria: Aka Dinosaur Planet. Just the ground level will do, with some Dinosaurs in the background, or as stage hazards.

I'll probably think of more later, but right now I'm feeling a bit lazy.

I've never played much Star Fox, so I can't really comment on this one. :embarrass

im still gona say make from star tropics. he had a sequel, and idc if he was an america only rellease. -,- mike for ssb4 -,-

QFT

The Japanese are always getting attention when it comes to characters they want, why can't, for once, they get a character that will even make hardcore classic Japanese fanboys go, "WTF?"

Another idea I've had is an Ocarina of Time stage that works like Castle Siege where, after a certain time frame, you warp to a location based on one of the six sage temples. Even now, I'm still shocked that OoT has never been represented by a stage. Some people would argue that Hyrule Castle in the original did that but I still say that stage followed a Link to the Past motif more than Ocarina of Time.

@ sundayseclipse:

Yes, Star Tropics was an American exclusive.

Sounds awesome. Like Tower Climb, probably won't happen, but would be majorly kicka** to see.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Mike Jones wouldn't really be all that original anyways. He'd pretty much be a grown up version of Ness minus the PSI attacks. Like you pretty much said, the Japanese bias of the roster selection pretty much kills his chances.

 

[BG3]

Mike Jones wouldn't really be all that original anyways. He'd pretty much be a grown up version of Ness minus the PSI attacks. Like you pretty much said, the Japanese bias of the roster selection pretty much kills his chances.

woah, wait up. Since when has the roster ever been Japanese influenced? Only one's I say are Marth and Roy.

 

[Fatmanonice]

woah, wait up. Since when has the roster ever been Japanese influenced? Only one's I say are Marth and Roy.

... the game is made in Japan. For both Melee and Brawl, the poll asking people what they wanted to see in the game was made only available to the Japanese. With this being said, the game is mostly catered to what the Japanese want. Heck, I'd personally be surprized if Sakurai had ever even heard of Mike Jones.

 

[BG3]

... the game is made in Japan. For both Melee and Brawl, the poll asking people what they wanted to see in the game was made only available to the Japanese. With this being said, the game is mostly catered to what the Japanese want. Heck, I'd personally be surprized if Sakurai had ever even heard of Mike Jones.

Well it's not like the Japanese want incredibly stupid or unreasonable things in Smash, so I guess that's a little bit of a plus.

 

[majora_787]

Well it's not like the Japanese want incredibly stupid or unreasonable things in Smash, so I guess that's a little bit of a plus.

Yeah, but they choose their Jigglypuffs over their Ridleys. And that's why it could get a tiny bit "problematic".

I always wondered why nobody bothered to ask the US or Europe about what THEY want.

Okay anyway~ Best stages for Metroid would have to be Phendrana and/or Chozo Ruins, but it'll probably be something from MP3 or something. So maybe Sky City's Spiral Dock?

 

[WolfCypher]

I want every character to have their OWN STAGE. That'd be great. So if we end up with 49 characters in SSB4/Brawl 2, we'd have AT LEAST 49 stages.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I see stages and characters again....
I agree, everyone should have their own stage.

Anyway, lets change the subject again. Lets talk AT's and items. i would like to see a Djinn item. They appear on the stage, hit the ground and stand there. After a short time they will start to move and cause elemental damage (one of the four elements. Depends on which one is walking around.)

It the djinn is picked up, it will give the elemental property to the attack holding him. If he is thown, the Djinn will perform a summon skill and perform a special move from the GS series.

 

[n88]

I would like to see a couple new Zelda ATs. As much as drag0nscythe may hate him, Tingle has a very good chance of ascending to playable status, leaving the Zelda series with 0 bosses, 0 ATs. And that's just wrong.

I would like to see a Nayru AT that could affect time by either speeding it up or slowing it down. Shadow can take a hike. He should have been a costume for Sonic anyway.

Also, perhaps a Din AT to match? Not sure exactly what she could do, but some kind of season-oriented effect.

For a Zelda boss, I'm unsure. I would like to see the boss from the first dungeon of the original game. Yeah, that big green dragon. No updates, graphically, just a giant pixellated dragon. Seems unlikely, but I would like to see it if only for the entertainment value.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

A great idea for a boss could be Darkrai, since it doesn't have what being a playable character in SSB4 requires, and that is legs (although it shows legs briefly in the anime).

 

[Pieman0920]

If there was a Zelda boss, it would probably be one that shows up multiple times, like Ghoma, or Vatti. Remember, all the bosses from other games in Brawl showed up in at least two games, and I think this trend may continue. As for Darkrai, I think he does have what it takes for being a playable character, seeing as legs are not always needed (I'm looking at you ROB) but he could also work as a boss if needed.

And while I don't want to go and make another long stage post (yet) I will say that Metroid should probably have either Chozo Ruins, Sky Town, or both as its next stage(s).

 

[Knyaguy]

A great idea for a boss could be Darkrai, since it doesn't have what being a playable character in SSB4 requires, and that is legs (although it shows legs briefly in the anime).

That is if Darkrai would still be current in time for SSB4. Darkrai was my main choice for the pokemon addition to SSBB, not that mewtwo wannabe lucario.

 

[n88]

I would predict a 2012-2013 release for SSB4, so Darkrai might be long gone by then.