Official MBR Tier List

[Binx]

IMO Falco has great combo ability, with 3 reliable moves to get them in the air (Dtilt, shine, Fthrow) and four amazing aerials (Dair, Nair, Bair, and Uair), he can keep max pressure on the opponent while being so fast that nobody can run away. the only problem is there are three exceptions to his combos; Fox, Sheik, and Marth.

Shine, Utilt, and Uthrow Maybe? However at medium percents Falcos drill pops them up as well, so many of his moves lead into shine as well that you really don't need anything else if your goal is to get them above you.

From what Ive noticed Falcos lasers make every character in the game slower so any character that would normally be faster than him becomes just as slow as any other character except when they are comboing Falco, or if they powershield.

 

[Binx]

I did too, I'd also like to reiterate the fact that everyone who says, "sheik is an easy character to play" has a garbage sheik.

Yea I'm gonna have to disagree there ^_^
I just mean she is technically easy, her spacing can be difficult because of her dash and her jump height but eh.

 

[Rubyiris]

Shiek is not an easy character to play. =\

 

[KevinM]

Fox is an easy character to play, I just have to space my nairs and shines really well.

Ice Climbers are really easy to play all I have to do is space and get a grab.

etc etc.

The people that say such and such characters are REALLY easy, don't do **** in competition with those characters.

Sheik takes work just like any other character in this game.

 

[Binx]

Sheik takes work just like any other character in this game.

Fair enough =D

 

[unknown522]

Fox is an easy character to play, I just have to space my nairs and shines really well.

Ice Climbers are really easy to play all I have to do is space and get a grab.

etc etc.

The people that say such and such characters are REALLY easy, don't do **** in competition with those characters.

Sheik takes work just like any other character in this game.

that's fair, but I secondary falco, sheik, marth, and used to main the marios in tourneys. (No vids sorry)

TML - exactly.

Kage is the best ganondorf main indeed, but once US players stop sucking and figure out how kage plays, they will realize that it's still ganondorf. You know, the slow huge target with no options on the ledge and with terrible recovery? Yep him.

Kage's style has been stagnant to us lately because he has less options to improve his general game because ganondorf is more limited.


I more or less agree with you Ryan, but saying that falco is flat out better than sheik i'm still not so sure. I'd go with tie because falco's recovery is still a severe flaw in his game wether or not you get edgeguarded often >_>

I agree with your whole statement

Wow trashtalk much, you are never gonna defeat me with Marth in a tournament set. 6.5 Marth 3.5 Ganon? LOL.

US is not gonna stop sucking, I will simply crush them all!!!! Go to hell PKM.

lol, I'm rooting for you kage.

that hurt

but i'm going with kage on this one 6.5 marth 3.5 ganon is all lies.

if you didn't know anything then you should have said at least 55 marth 45 gannon but since you know even less about that match up u should just stop talking and save yourself from being made fun of.

and don't try to say well i **** ganons, if you played a good ganon like kage (more like god ganon) then you would understand he isn't bad and wrecks on people who think this guy is trash.

<high five Canadians> o wait not kage his slap will shock me <3

I play with kage on a pretty good basis.

Forward is a ******? (1:00) When you're pillaring, you're not thinking about backing off. Actually, watching the whole match, Tink does it a lot.

About Falco's guaranteed combos I can't really say much because I haven't played any reeeaaly good Falcos in my area. I guess I'll learn a bunch next week at the Europe-wide tourney I'm going to, but I'm not convinced that Falco's combos are a lot more guaranteed than those of the other top tiers. Fox chainthrows him, Marth chainthrows him, and Sheik techchases him. It's not really possible to escape any of those with DI. Yeah he can easily combo Fox to 40 without him being able to get out at all (if you do it right), but after that his combos are limited to safe 1-2 hits and attempts at tech chases that rely on good prediction.

- No forward is not ********, but waveshining a shield is NOT pillaring it.

- laser = prediction right?

- every good falco laser camps until someone approaches and then combo when they get close. It sounds simple, but watch any pro falco play

- falco only gets CG'd by fox effectively on FD, where falco's combos are even less escapeable (granted you do it right).

- platform stages are easier to combo marth and sheik.

- please tell me you don't play strictly PAL version.

 

[Ignatius]

Fair enough =D

Best pun of the thread.

 

[Divinokage]

you agree but you root me for me Unknown? Just make sure you don't become biased just because you beat me in a tournament set and then all of a sudden you agree all the matchups is crap against Ganon? Your statements seems to be full of ego all the time these days.

The last time you played against me was in a tournament, only one set.. other than that you never played with me.

You said to me that you thought it was going to be harder against me? But it was still a 2-1 win, isn't that hard enough? lol. Also Fox/Ganon to me is probably one of my worst matchups, it's very hard.

Anyways I think I can push it even further with Ganon, there are probably hidden things or combos that i havent learned yet. And screw all of you who think Ganon is limited, saying that is saying I'm limited but I don't believe it at all. The game is limited by itself but I am limitless!!

 

[otg]

I did too, I'd also like to reiterate the fact that everyone who says, "sheik is an easy character to play" has a garbage sheik.

Thank you, I completely agree.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I did too, I'd also like to reiterate the fact that everyone who says, "sheik is an easy character to play" has a garbage sheik.

I think she's easy to pick up and play for anybody that knows the fundamentals of the game, but I don't think she's easy to master. If that makes any sense. I'm well aware that my Sheik's garbage, too.

Smooth Criminal

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ganon is honestly good, he's just limited IMO.

But I'm sure Kage or someone will find something worthwhile about him other than jump back / forward + Fair.

 

[Divinokage]

Ganon is honestly good, he's just limited IMO.

But I'm sure Kage or someone will find something worthwhile about him other than jump back / forward + Fair.

Oh there are other options im working on now. =P I did say I REALLY want to win, I'll do whatever it takes. However I will never change characters no matter what people say. Like you should go Falco or something, stfu!!!

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

anyways I Think I Can Push It Even Further With Ganon, There Are Probably Hidden Things Or Combos That I Havent Learned Yet. And Screw All Of You Who Think Ganon Is Limited, Saying That Is Saying I'm Limited But I Don't Believe It At All. The Game Is Limited By Itself But I Am Limitless!!

THE WARRIORa

 

[Miggz]

Ganon is indeed a tank.

He can take a lot tippers from Marth, that's for sure.

^^;

 

[Mother]

there's no way dr mario is better than ganon... id go as far as putting ganon above samus and possibly into the upper tier, 7.2 maybe.

 

[Miggz]

there's no way dr mario is better than ganon... id go as far as putting ganon above samus and possibly into the upper tier, 7.2 maybe.

Tell that too Doc's superior speed, projectile usage, recovery, AND of course his cape. =P

 

[KirbyKaze]

I did too, I'd also like to reiterate the fact that everyone who says, "sheik is an easy character to play" has a garbage sheik.

"sheik is an easy character to play"

oh yeah i went there

miggz, ganon has the R word. you don't mess with the R word. being able to effectively and efficiently kill is also good.

doc can keep his aspirin. it won't change the fact that he's short and stubby. satin sheets won't save him from marth's fair or falcon's dash dance either. doc's recovery fyi is horrible.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

"sheik is an easy character to play"

oh yeah i went there

But your Sheik is garb--

*is shot.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[KirbyKaze]

My Sheik is garbage

I need some special KevinM juice from the source to cheer me up.

 

[Vulcan55]

being able to effectively and efficiently kill is also good.

I think you're confusing Doc with Mario.

 

[Binx]

I think you're confusing Doc with Mario.

I think your confusing doc with a good character

 

[TheManaLord]

I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.

My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.

Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.

If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).

Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.

Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.

The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.

I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.

Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.

Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!

 

[Smooth Criminal]

ManaLord, that was frickin' hilarious.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Divinokage]

ManaLord, that was frickin' hilarious.

Smooth Criminal

It's an old copy pasta definitely. lol.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It's an old copy pasta definitely. lol.

Oh, no doubt. But it's still hilarious. I wonder if you think of Ganon as a "meat mountain," Kage...lol

Smooth Criminal

 

[TheManaLord]

It's an old copy pasta definitely. lol.

We come from gamefaqs, we know this but they might not

 

[unknown522]

you agree but you root me for me Unknown? Just make sure you don't become biased just because you beat me in a tournament set and then all of a sudden you agree all the matchups is crap against Ganon? Your statements seems to be full of ego all the time these days.

The last time you played against me was in a tournament, only one set.. other than that you never played with me.

You said to me that you thought it was going to be harder against me? But it was still a 2-1 win, isn't that hard enough? lol. Also Fox/Ganon to me is probably one of my worst matchups, it's very hard.

Anyways I think I can push it even further with Ganon, there are probably hidden things or combos that i havent learned yet. And screw all of you who think Ganon is limited, saying that is saying I'm limited but I don't believe it at all. The game is limited by itself but I am limitless!!

where did that come from? I don't have an ego......(I wish I did), but anyways, me beating you in tournament didn't make me all full of myself. FTR, the set was 2-1, but on the neutral stages, the matches weren't close though. I got ***** on your counterpick again, but that was pretty much it. I'm happy that I was able to pull out the win when I really needed to.

Also, I know that fox v ganon is ****, and vs sheik. That's why I suggested a new character to you. You don't need to get pissed off about that (unless you were high when you posted this.....dunno). You can stick with ganon, that is your choice. I was just stating options. I wanted to help out, since I was sort of in the same boat as you when I mained mario, then doc later on. I'd always lose to bernard strictly because of the matchup back then, and then when I would fox ditto him, then I would win majority of the time. I used to always lose to sheik players with mario, and beat them with fox. I would come close to losing to marths every time. hell, PKM, sprocket, and kingsley would counterpick marth on me in 2005, though they mained other characters. I would lose to delorted's peach a lot, then do loads better with fox. Eventually I got sick of it, so I made fox my main, since he was my secondary already.

But yeah, I don't want to see you lose to any of the Americans, when we travel. I cheer for you whenever we go there and stuff, and try my best to help you with suggestions and stuff. I would never talk **** because I won a set vs you. Otherwise I would've done that when I beat/come close to beating other pro players.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Oh there are other options im working on now. =P I did say I REALLY want to win, I'll do whatever it takes. However I will never change characters no matter what people say. Like you should go Falco or something, stfu!!!

I only ever tell you to play Marth for space animals haha. Marth is a warrior.

 

[Europhoria]

I think Marth vs. Ganon is close to even. Maybe like 55/45 for Marth. I don't think it's grossly 1 sided. Ganon has a lot of ways around Marth's priority and range. Otherwise I generally agree with the rest of what PKM/Unknown have said.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think you're confusing Doc with Mario.

No, if I was talking about Mario I'd say he has no KO power at all. You're not dying from Mario until like 150%+ unless you DI badly on something or get gimped.

Doc has inefficient KO power. It's there, but it's mostly in punishable / slow moves (and even then it's limited; this is NOT to be confused with his edgeguarding because his edgeguarding is pretty gay) that hinders his ability to rack up KOs like the characters above him.

Ganon does not have this issue because he can kill you from very little. His issue is that he doesn't have a great answer to someone wailing on him in close range other than like Jab. Which has its own associated issues.

 

[skyheart]

marth and ganon is 50/50, why? play against a GOOD ganon with your marth if you're good

 

[otg]

marth and ganon is 50/50, why? play against a GOOD ganon with your marth if you're good

Flawless logic.

 

[KevinM]

LOL @ OTG

And seriously I can't believe you found that thread TML <3333.

 

[Rubyiris]

Gannon is a ****ing beast. <33

*edit*

inb4 infraction.

 

[skyheart]

i take is back

ganon is 100/0 against anyone in ganon's favor, there is absolutely no one that can use any character besides ganon to beat ganon, ganon vs ganon is cheating

 

[Laijin]

The only way to beat ganon is to use the UNBEATABLE windmill of fury.
Nothing can stop the windmill of fury...unless Ganon is doing it too! Then your ****ed.

 

[smashbot226]

^Wouldn't that mean that the W.o.F's crash into each other, causing a No Contest?

And YAY for Mewtwo moving up above Pichu! I always thought the Backroom was on drugs when they put him below PICHU.

And I find it hilarious that Falcon is beaten out by either women or petite talking animals.

Of course, nobody beats his manliness.

 

[Vulcan55]

stuff

hm...
I s'pose.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

- No forward is not ********, but waveshining a shield is NOT pillaring it.

Since when? As far as I'm concerned, pillaring = shield pressure, thus waveshining = pillaring.

- laser = prediction right?

- every good falco laser camps until someone approaches and then combo when they get close. It sounds simple, but watch any pro falco play

You make it sounds so hopeless. The thing is, once good characters are relatively close to Falco it becomes unsafe to laser. If you haven't moved you're also very close to the ledge, which means you're at a high risk of losing your stock if you get hit. Falco is high risk, high reward, and I feel like the risk outweighs the reward on most levels of play.

- please tell me you don't play strictly PAL version.

What's wrong with that?

 

[Vts]

I think Marth vs. Ganon is close to even. Maybe like 55/45 for Marth. I don't think it's grossly 1 sided. Ganon has a lot of ways around Marth's priority and range. Otherwise I generally agree with the rest of what PKM/Unknown have said.

lol my point has been proven by this man who knows a little more about the match up .