Official MBR Tier List

[Smooth Criminal]

who cares? none of you guys can beat kage with marth, it depends majorly on one's skill

PKMVodka is actually really, really, really good and has consistently beaten the bulk of Canada's finest players over the years, Kage included. KirbyKaze is also one of the gayest Sheik players in existence and has gone toe-to-toe with another reputable Canadian player, BAM, in Finals recently. Unknown is just...well, unknown. But from what I've seen/heard he's a solid player.

So, uh, yeah.

>_> I know too much about Canada.

Edit: As for the topic at hand, I still feel that Marth > Ganon. I don't think it's by much though.

Smooth Criminal

 

[KevinM]

Does your *** hurt from riding so much?

@Skyheart

 

[Alleran]

Roy is still my toyboy

 

[pkmvodka]

who cares? none of you guys can beat kage with marth, it depends majorly on one's skill

LOL yeah ok

 

[TheManaLord]

Yeah from seeing all of canadas best play(save pkm =() at the same tourny (exclude wc but LOL @ them from what i hear) kage is indeed one of their best but he is def beaten by the top 4 or 5 players. he def won a lot at RoM with a little bit of new char new style factor for sure. he's mad good but i've seen him handled pretty easily by those more familiar with his style.

 

[unknown522]

If we go by tourney results, fox shouldn't be the best character. Though we all know that he his. His speed, combos, and shine make him too good.

My tier list is now:

Better than Top
Captain Falcon's Sexy Manliness 11.0

Top
Fox
falco
Sheik
marth

High
puff
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

Middle
ganon
Dr. Mario
samus
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Mario

Low
Link
Pikachu
Young Link
G&W
Roy
Zelda


Bottom
Ness
Bowser
Mewtwo
yoshi
Kirby
Pichu

- Falco's better than sheik. Honestly, what's better? having an advantage on fox? or an advantage of marth? Falco's laser alone ***** or gives an advantage on almost every matchup. It's amazing that his laser makes every character play the same, and can control you from anywhere on the stage. It doesn't help that if you shield the lasers he can just pillar it, and force you to roll or take an immense amount of damage (except fox, himself, and sheik). He has auto combos that are almost un-DIable. Falco doesn't actually lose to peach (or it's not enough to matter), and sheik doesn't **** puff. Falco doesn't lose to puff that hard either.

He's super-easy to play (lol laser + priority + auto combos). I know that he "dies easily", but when you never get put off the stage, that shouldn't count. I think that the old tier list in that regard is more accurate than this one. He'd be the best character by a long shot if he had a good grab game, but oh well.

- Samus sucks ***, she just goes even with the spacies, and does ok vs falcon, then loses to everyone else.

- Ganon is better than samus and doc. His range and weight helps him in a lot of matchups (not sheik and marth, lol).

- Doc is better than samus. Just not enough people play her.

- the low tiers don't really matter. You see the changes I made.

 

[pkmvodka]

TML - exactly.

Kage is the best ganondorf main indeed, but once US players stop sucking and figure out how kage plays, they will realize that it's still ganondorf. You know, the slow huge target with no options on the ledge and with terrible recovery? Yep him.

Kage's style has been stagnant to us lately because he has less options to improve his general game because ganondorf is more limited.


I more or less agree with you Ryan, but saying that falco is flat out better than sheik i'm still not so sure. I'd go with tie because falco's recovery is still a severe flaw in his game wether or not you get edgeguarded often >_>

 

[KevinM]

I cosign to what PKM has stated.

Mainly because I agree Falco = Sheik maybe slightly worse.

I reiterate the fact that it doesn't matter because the top 4 are all equally capable of winning tournaments.

 

[Binx]

I agree with Kevin, although I'm still pretty sure sheik is a little bit better not by enough for it to make a significant impact, and most because she is so easy to use as well, a lot less mistakes are typically made by sheik than Falco.

 

[skyheart]

well it's very true, the top 4 are all capable, actually very capable of winning tournaments, and mango (jigglypuff) is just as capable, but not other people that play jigglypuff, so i don't know what to make of jigglypuff in relation to the top 4

 

[JBM falcon08]

dont' forget about hungry and darc.

both really good jiggs that have been placing top 10 or better at all tourneys holding more than 100+ entrants.

 

[Number 1 DK]

I honestly don't see Sheik as being higher than Falco.

Falco shouldn't really be knocked down that far on the basis of poor recovery.
Saying that Sheik is easier to play isn't really a valid reason either, not in my eyes.

Just because one Ganondorf player can beat a ton ofMarth and Sheik players doesn't mean those characters have an even match-up.

 

[TheManaLord]

dont' forget about hungry and darc.

both really good jiggs that have been placing top 10 or better at all tourneys holding more than 100+ entrants.

i'd even cut that down to top 5. both place really well, darc even better at most mass madness and NE stuff

 

[JonaDiaper]

sheiks recovery is almost about as limited as falco's if you consider all you have to do is grab the edge and wait for her to land on the stage and then ****

 

[Pink Reaper]

If we go by tourney results, fox shouldn't be the best character. Though we all know that he his. His speed, combos, and shine make him too good.

My tier list is now:

- Falco's better than sheik. Honestly, what's better? having an advantage on fox? or an advantage of marth? Falco's laser alone ***** or gives an advantage on almost every matchup. It's amazing that his laser makes every character play the same, and can control you from anywhere on the stage. It doesn't help that if you shield the lasers he can just pillar it, and force you to roll or take an immense amount of damage (except fox, himself, and sheik). He has auto combos that are almost un-DIable. Falco doesn't actually lose to peach (or it's not enough to matter), and sheik doesn't **** puff. Falco doesn't lose to puff that hard either.

He's super-easy to play (lol laser + priority + auto combos). I know that he "dies easily", but when you never get put off the stage, that shouldn't count. I think that the old tier list in that regard is more accurate than this one. He'd be the best character by a long shot if he had a good grab game, but oh well.

You're just saying that because Zhu beat your entire country.

 

[demodemo]

can someone quickly explain why peach is higher than falcon and jiggs?

 

[TheManaLord]

she just dont die son. and is mad good.


explained. myth busted. gtfo.

 

[Binx]

I honestly don't see Sheik as being higher than Falco.

Falco shouldn't really be knocked down that far on the basis of poor recovery.
Saying that Sheik is easier to play isn't really a valid reason either, not in my eyes.

Just because one Ganondorf player can beat a ton ofMarth and Sheik players doesn't mean those characters have an even match-up.

Falcos recovery is a lot more limited than Sheiks she at least has the opportunity to make it back most of the time, falco if forced to up b or if his forward b is predicted is dead, Sheik is also better off stage, and has a better grab game. Her being easier to play makes her easier to learn even though they are about equal in terms of matchups vs other top tier characters. If you miss an L cancel with Falco your probably dead, even though it doesn't happen often, if you miss one with sheik you have a shot at living cause of her fall speed. In most matches it won't come down to that but 1/100 times its gonna make the difference.

sheiks recovery is almost about as limited as falco's if you consider all you have to do is grab the edge and wait for her to land on the stage and then ****

Falco up Bs and he gets killed 90% of the time, you can do the same thing against him by holding the ledge, the timing is slightly stricter, but the difference is that sheik at lower percents in that situation only gets hit into the middle of the stage where she has a chance to live, Falco is dead before then.

can someone quickly explain why peach is higher than falcon and jiggs?

Cause Peaches metagame used to be higher than those characters, she probably doesn't deserve her spot anymore, even though it is fairly close.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

My tier list is now:

- Falco's better than sheik. Honestly, what's better? having an advantage on fox? or an advantage of marth? Falco's laser alone ***** or gives an advantage on almost every matchup. It's amazing that his laser makes every character play the same, and can control you from anywhere on the stage. It doesn't help that if you shield the lasers he can just pillar it, and force you to roll or take an immense amount of damage (except fox, himself, and sheik). He has auto combos that are almost un-DIable. Falco doesn't actually lose to peach (or it's not enough to matter), and sheik doesn't **** puff. Falco doesn't lose to puff that hard either.

He's super-easy to play (lol laser + priority + auto combos). I know that he "dies easily", but when you never get put off the stage, that shouldn't count. I think that the old tier list in that regard is more accurate than this one. He'd be the best character by a long shot if he had a good grab game, but oh well.

I disagree with a lot of stuff in this. If a Falco pillaring your shield is forcing you to roll, you're doing it wrong. Everyone can shield DI away and shield grab the shine. Everyone can shield grab after the shine with proper timing as well. Lots of characters have fast moves out of shield that **** pillaring. Marth can wavedash out of shield, fsmash, tech chase and kill Falco if he messes up even slightly.

Even if we're ignoring powershielding on the laser issue (it is possible to consistently powershield them- watch Magus' Zelda vs. Spammer's Falco on youtube for example), the top tiers all have options for moving around the lasers pretty well. Marth and Fox' wavedashes are long enough that simple, good shield movement and spacing is often enough. Sheik can mix up crouches, short hops, jumps and double jumps to move through Falco's lasers.

And let's not forget that it's not just off the stage that Falco dies quickly. He gets combo'd very easily by all top tiers (sheik just has to tech chase a bit before she can combo with other moves). If Falco messes up, he gets punished very hard. Often, one hit results in a stock being taken not necessarily from one single combo, but from multiple situations in which he is at a severe disadvantage after being hit until he is forced off the stage and gets gimped.

Falco's entire game relies on being perfect, and unfortunately, no one is perfect; thus Falco falls apart.

 

[Mogwai]

Everyone can shield grab after the shine with proper timing as well.

ha, no! a correctly timed pillar vs. Link, Y. Link, Samus, Yoshi, or Zelda is not grabbable, lol.

that's also just analyzing frame data, not even taking into account possible situations where the character's grab box wouldn't be high enough to get the short hopping Falco, so I'm sure there are ungrabbable pillars vs. such titans as Pichu, Ness, and Kirby as well. Clearly you see now that Falco is unstoppable, no?

 

[Binx]

^^^ too pro at the two posts above this one haha

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

ha, no! a correctly timed pillar vs. Link, Y. Link, Samus, Yoshi, or Zelda is not grabbable, lol.

that's also just analyzing frame data, not even taking into account possible situations where the character's grab box wouldn't be high enough to get the short hopping Falco, so I'm sure there are ungrabbable pillars vs. such titans as Pichu, Ness, and Kirby as well. Clearly you see now that Falco is unstoppable, no?

Dammit why do I not know anything about bad characters?

 

[Pink Reaper]

ha, no! a correctly timed pillar vs. Link, Y. Link, Samus, Yoshi, or Zelda is not grabbable, lol.

that's also just analyzing frame data, not even taking into account possible situations where the character's grab box wouldn't be high enough to get the short hopping Falco, so I'm sure there are ungrabbable pillars vs. such titans as Pichu, Ness, and Kirby as well. Clearly you see now that Falco is unstoppable, no?

*coughKirbyhasthe3rdlargestnon-tethergrabboxinthegamecough*

 

[pockyD]

kirby is short

 

[Mogwai]

yea, I don't care about the total grab box size, I care about how high it goes. if it's legitimately pretty high, good for him, but I actually don't care cause it's ****ing kirby, lol.

 

[skyheart]

Yeah not many care about kirby or even pichu for that matter.

 

[wiilikekirby]

Why is Ness so low in the tiers I've seen many ness's beat fox or marth?

 

[Binx]

those ness players were either lucky or significantly more skilled than the Marths

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yeah ness has one decent smash and his jab, grab range and tilt's suck, and his down B is slow and same for his B. his recovery can be owned easily. and the biggest thing he has is air game and let's not kid ourselfs it's no J-puff

Q. what's wroung with pichu other than stort range ,light and self damageing. i love pichu and i can't see the flaws. and knowing the flaws will help

 

[unknown522]

I cosign to what PKM has stated.

Mainly because I agree Falco = Sheik maybe slightly worse.

I reiterate the fact that it doesn't matter because the top 4 are all equally capable of winning tournaments.

agreed, it's hard to call

well it's very true, the top 4 are all capable, actually very capable of winning tournaments, and mango (jigglypuff) is just as capable, but not other people that play jigglypuff, so i don't know what to make of jigglypuff in relation to the top 4

agreed. The top 4-7 characters can probably win a tournament.

You're just saying that because Zhu beat your entire country.

Ok, you think that. Even though zhu is not involved in this topic.

Zhu ***** me in the recorded friendlies, lol, so what? I beat lamchops in a friendly set, but that doesn't really matter. I can MM him if you really want..

I disagree with a lot of stuff in this. If a Falco pillaring your shield is forcing you to roll, you're doing it wrong. Everyone can shield DI away and shield grab the shine. Everyone can shield grab after the shine with proper timing as well. Lots of characters have fast moves out of shield that **** pillaring. Marth can wavedash out of shield, fsmash, tech chase and kill Falco if he messes up even slightly.

Even if we're ignoring powershielding on the laser issue (it is possible to consistently powershield them- watch Magus' Zelda vs. Spammer's Falco on youtube for example), the top tiers all have options for moving around the lasers pretty well. Marth and Fox' wavedashes are long enough that simple, good shield movement and spacing is often enough. Sheik can mix up crouches, short hops, jumps and double jumps to move through Falco's lasers.

And let's not forget that it's not just off the stage that Falco dies quickly. He gets combo'd very easily by all top tiers (sheik just has to tech chase a bit before she can combo with other moves). If Falco messes up, he gets punished very hard. Often, one hit results in a stock being taken not necessarily from one single combo, but from multiple situations in which he is at a severe disadvantage after being hit until he is forced off the stage and gets gimped.

Falco's entire game relies on being perfect, and unfortunately, no one is perfect; thus Falco falls apart.

lol, ok. well, you're forgetting that you can make mistakes with other characters and be massively punished if you're stupid/fail tech skill. You can do other stuff vs falco's pillar when you can't space for some reason (sheik's nair out of shield, shine out of shield/up smash, samus' and bowser's up-b out of shield, etc), still falco has immense priority if you try to attack him from your shield.

The marth WD-f smash thing. You have to be a ****** to get hit by that. Back off and feed more lasers.

sheik can tech-chase easily based on reflex, yeah you're right about that. I'm not saying that falco wins the matchuip specifically, but vs the other good characters, falco does well, and beats fox (not by much but might as well take it) which is the most important.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco is really really gay.

 

[Binx]

yeah ness has one decent smash and his jab, grab range and tilt's suck, and his down B is slow and same for his B. his recovery can be owned easily. and the biggest thing he has is air game and let's not kid ourselfs it's no J-puff

Q. what's wroung with pichu other than stort range ,light and self damageing. i love pichu and i can't see the flaws. and knowing the flaws will help

Pichu

Pros
-Cute
-Small
-Has two taunts

Cons
-Lightest weight in the game
-NO RANGE
-NO PRIORITY
-NO DAMAGE
-Hurts itself
-Poor grab range
-No combos over 2 hits vs good DI

 

[KirbyKaze]

Pichu sucks. He has no moves.

 

[KirbyKaze]

PKMVodka is actually really, really, really good and has consistently beaten the bulk of Canada's finest players over the years, Kage included. KirbyKaze is also one of the gayest Sheik players in existence and has gone toe-to-toe with another reputable Canadian player, BAM, in Finals recently. Unknown is just...well, unknown. But from what I've seen/heard he's a solid player.

So, uh, yeah.

>_> I know too much about Canada.

Edit: As for the topic at hand, I still feel that Marth > Ganon. I don't think it's by much though.

Smooth Criminal

Out of my last 3 tournament sets with Kage, I have won 3 of them. I don't understand why the other Sheiks struggle with this matchup at all. Big target + can be chain-grabbed + no defensive game = bananas.

 

[Divinokage]

Wow trashtalk much, you are never gonna defeat me with Marth in a tournament set. 6.5 Marth 3.5 Ganon? LOL.

US is not gonna stop sucking, I will simply crush them all!!!! Go to hell PKM.

 

[Vts]

Wow trashtalk much, you are never gonna defeat me with Marth in a tournament set. 6.5 Marth 3.5 Ganon? LOL.

US is not gonna stop sucking, I will simply crush them all!!!! Go to hell PKM.

that hurt

but i'm going with kage on this one 6.5 marth 3.5 ganon is all lies.

if you didn't know anything then you should have said at least 55 marth 45 gannon but since you know even less about that match up u should just stop talking and save yourself from being made fun of.

and don't try to say well i **** ganons, if you played a good ganon like kage (more like god ganon) then you would understand he isn't bad and wrecks on people who think this guy is trash.

<high five Canadians> o wait not kage his slap will shock me <3

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

agreed, it's hard to call

agreed. The top 4-7 characters can probably win a tournament.

Ok, you think that. Even though zhu is not involved in this topic.

Zhu ***** me in the recorded friendlies, lol, so what? I beat lamchops in a friendly set, but that doesn't really matter. I can MM him if you really want..

lol, ok. well, you're forgetting that you can make mistakes with other characters and be massively punished if you're stupid/fail tech skill. You can do other stuff vs falco's pillar when you can't space for some reason (sheik's nair out of shield, shine out of shield/up smash, samus' and bowser's up-b out of shield, etc), still falco has immense priority if you try to attack him from your shield.

The marth WD-f smash thing. You have to be a ****** to get hit by that. Back off and feed more lasers.

sheik can tech-chase easily based on reflex, yeah you're right about that. I'm not saying that falco wins the matchuip specifically, but vs the other good characters, falco does well, and beats fox (not by much but might as well take it) which is the most important.

Forward is a ******? (1:00) When you're pillaring, you're not thinking about backing off. Actually, watching the whole match, Tink does it a lot.

About Falco's guaranteed combos I can't really say much because I haven't played any reeeaaly good Falcos in my area. I guess I'll learn a bunch next week at the Europe-wide tourney I'm going to, but I'm not convinced that Falco's combos are a lot more guaranteed than those of the other top tiers. Fox chainthrows him, Marth chainthrows him, and Sheik techchases him. It's not really possible to escape any of those with DI. Yeah he can easily combo Fox to 40 without him being able to get out at all (if you do it right), but after that his combos are limited to safe 1-2 hits and attempts at tech chases that rely on good prediction.

 

[handsockpuppet]

IMO Falco has great combo ability, with 3 reliable moves to get them in the air (Dtilt, shine, Fthrow) and four amazing aerials (Dair, Nair, Bair, and Uair), he can keep max pressure on the opponent while being so fast that nobody can run away. the only problem is there are three exceptions to his combos; Fox, Sheik, and Marth.

 

[Mogwai]

IMO Falco has great combo ability, with 3 reliable moves to get them in the air (Dtilt, shine, Fthrow)

lolololololololol

I stopped reading.

 

[KevinM]

I did too, I'd also like to reiterate the fact that everyone who says, "sheik is an easy character to play" has a garbage sheik.