Official MBR Tier List

[NJzFinest]

SPAM ARROWS, YOU FORGOT DONKEY KONG

woww, why is DK so unpopular? xD

 

[llamapaste]

This is how the tier list should be.

I Pew Pew You Tier
Fox
Falco

The Gay Happiness Tier
Jiggs
Sheik

Manly Princesses Tier
Marth
Peach

I Hate Wobblin' Tier
Wobbles

I committed Manslaughter with Captain Falcon's Racecar Tier
Falcon

Kage Is a Manly Man Tier
Kage

Everbody Loves Hugs Tier
Hugs

I give Everybody Poison Pills Tier
Doc

I Wavedash Way Too Much Tier
Luigi

Scorpion Master Meets a Mexican With an Axe Tier
Axe
Scorp
Mexican

No one uses him anymore tier
Link

M2 vrs Zelda Tier with Kaostar Tier
M2 vrs. Zelda

A Ness Beat Hax Once Tier
NEsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Insane Crazy Guy Tier
Pichu

Mr. Game and Watch is in bottom tier tier
Mr. Game and Watch

Everyone Likes Link Better Tier
Young Link

Airdodge Tier
Yoshi

I got teh Fire Tier
Roy

Chudat can Play Kirby Tier
Chu

WarriorKnight Is better Than DJ Nintendo Tier
Warrior Knight is Better than DJ Nintendo

Did I get everyone? It's not serious of course.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Cause they're all infallible right?

Col Bol, Mango, Dr. PP, Zhu, Merc have all taken either matches, sets, or tournaments from Hbox. And those are just off the top of my head.

It's easy to name drop people you know are good that haven't beat Hbox, it's harder to realize they make mistakes and are not perfect.

Sigh. Why would I claim Hungrybox is unbeatable? I swear people deliberately miss the point of people's posts here to provide them some kind of counterargument.

 

[NJzFinest]

llamapaste's list is prob what the actual new list will look like except for where he says ICs>Falcon and Pichu>GnW and YLink

 

[KAOSTAR]

I found that list most amusing

 

[llamapaste]

It's not a real list it doesn't show where the characters will actually be. It's just for laughs.

 

[rhan]

Spam_Arrows: Pika definitely isn't above or shouldn't be above Samus on the list. At best they're tied for a spot.

 

[Flonomenalz]

Lol at people proclaiming Jiggs to be the best char. in the game. The competitive scene goes in cycles, it's like none of you even remember when SSBM was in MLG and people were moaning over fox/falco being broken? Remember when Marth was broken? How about Sheik? Hungrybox played a really gay Puff, but it can, and has, been beaten. So has Mango's (hi Kage). The top players just have to go out there and play to the top of their game. M2K was doin it right when he was platform camping Jiggs with Fox on BF, he should have won that match and maybe the set if he kept doing that.

tl:dr - Jiggs is gay, so play gay against it. Or you can be like me and use Luigi. Jiggs can't touch Weegee.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Jiggs is top 3. Fox/Falco/Jiggs in any order.

The scene may go in cycles, but that doesn't nullify the reasons that make Jiggs one of the best characters in the game.

Hbox is the best player in the world aside from Mango, and uses a top character, he clearly is beatable but it is going to be hard when he is using a good character coupled with his skills.

 

[Pi]

Sigh. Why would I claim Hungrybox is unbeatable? I swear people deliberately miss the point of people's posts here to provide them some kind of counterargument.

As far as I can tell the point you were trying to make that no one should say **** about how to beat hungrybox unless they're m2k armada or amsah. Isn't that it?

The points he made in the post that you originally responded to were valid, yet you tossed them aside because he put them forth very bluntly.

Even though he may have said them nonchalant, performing what was said is a lot more complex, and is infact part of what is needed to win vs. Hbox. You're not one to talk about missing points when you can't look past someones unfamiliar name and actually read into his post.

 

[Strong Badam]

the points he made were like, duh. armada, amsah, and m2k know what to ****ing do, it just doesn't work/hbox does it better than them.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Thanks Strong Bad.

 

[rhan]

Or one can get good with a character people rarely know how to play against and do work then. Mango did it. Obviously if you're more knowledgeable of a certain match-up than your opponent and is actually good with the character you're playing with then chances are you're going to do great and throw off the other player.

 

[Strong Badam]

the problem with that strategy being that top players are the best at adapting (hence why they're top players) and relying on gimmicky tricks w/ bad characters isn't really going to work. axe lost to armada twice because armada adapted quickly.

 

[Merkuri]

I think Axe lost because Armada is a better player. Axe did better in the second set so if anyone was adapting then it was Axe.

 

[rhan]

the problem with that strategy being that top players are the best at adapting (hence why they're top players) and relying on gimmicky tricks w/ bad characters isn't really going to work. axe lost to armada twice because armada adapted quickly.

I didn't mean to make it as a sense of relying on it. But it's like a tricky strat. Look at Vanz. He plays everyone so that he can trick people up with the match-ups.

I think Axe lost because Armada is a better player. Axe did better in the second set so if anyone was adapting then it was Axe.

Agree'd. That second set comeback was if anything the greatest comback ever.

 

[Strong Badam]

I think Axe lost because Armada is a better player. Axe did better in the second set so if anyone was adapting then it was Axe.

um, axe is an amazing player. like... imo better than armada.
pikachu's just a bad character.

 

[JPOBS]

um, axe is an amazing player. like... imo better than armada.
pikachu's just a bad character.

Im wondering what grounds you have for this statement.

just curious.

 

[Cosmo!]

armada is better than axe, pikachu is good enough to win especially in the pika-peach matchup, axe lost because armada is a stronger player (no disrespect to axe whatsoever), NOT because of his character choice

 

[Strong Badam]

i don't think the pika-peach match-up is even enough to be able to determine the better player simply based on axe vs. armada.
armada lacks pikachu experience, however, while axe gets a lot of peach experience here in the US. i'll admit i def. jumped the gun on my last post.

 

[NJzFinest]

Cort vs Chu Dat, wut?

 

[Merkuri]

um, axe is an amazing player. like... imo better than armada.
pikachu's just a bad character.

Lmao, Axe is very far from being a better player than Armada. Axe would have lost just as bad if not worse using his Falco or Fox. I can't believe there are people who think otherwise.

i don't think the pika-peach match-up is even enough to be able to determine the better player simply based on axe vs. armada.
armada lacks pikachu experience, however, while axe gets a lot of peach experience here in the US. i'll admit i def. jumped the gun on my last post.

Pilachu vs Peach isn't as bad as Pikachu vs Fox or Falco but Axe has no problem beating them. And Pikachu vs Peach is def winnable for Pikachu. Check our Cort vs Chu Dat.

 

[Pi]

Lmao, Axe is very far from being a better player than Armada. Axe would have lost just as bad if not worse using his Falco or Fox. I can't believe there are people who think otherwise.



Pilachu vs Peach isn't as bad as Pikachu vs Fox or Falco but Axe has no problem beating them. And Pikachu vs Peach is def winnable for Pikachu. Check our Cort vs Chu Dat.

You really need to learn how to word your posts >.>, I'm actually astonished at how you can make every thing you post controversial.


I wouldn't say Axe is 'very far from being a better player than Armada.'
I don't even know how you could come to that conclusion.

 

[Palpi]

You really need to learn how to word your posts >.>, I'm actually astonished at how you can make every thing you post controversial.


I wouldn't say Axe is 'very far from being a better player than Armada.'
I don't even know how you could come to that conclusion.

QFT.

I wouldn't hesitate to say Axe is on Armada's level. He plays a worse character. Axe wouldn't do as well with falco, because he doesn't main falco and didn't invest nearly as much time into it as he did with his pikachu. Stupid discussion is stupid.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Cormada vs ChuDaxe let's make it happen

 

[Merkuri]

If you're going to use the fact that he uses a bad character as an argument for him losing the match while he is equal to his opponent then any argument is useless. You could say someone like Lord HDL is the best player in the world it simply doesn't appear that way because his character sucks.

If we're going to debate who is better than who then the only sensible way to measure someone's level is by what they are able to achieve in tournament regardless of the character they use. Therefore someone's level is measured by their skills coupled with what those skills are able to achieve with whatever character they use. So I stand by statement that Axe is far from being better than Armada, perhaps not far from being his equal, but he's not better by a long shot.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Cormada vs ChuDaxe let's make it happen

This right here!

 

[Strong Badam]

If you're going to use the fact that he uses a bad character as an argument for him losing the match while he is equal to his opponent then any argument is useless. You could say someone like Lord HDL is the best player in the world it simply doesn't appear that way because his character sucks.

If we're going to debate who is better than who then the only sensible way to measure someone's level is by what they are able to achieve in tournament regardless of the character they use. Therefore someone's level is measured by their skills coupled with what those skills are able to achieve with whatever character they use. So I stand by statement that Axe is far from being better than Armada, perhaps not far from being his equal, but he's not better by a long shot.

the thing is, bro, it takes more skill to get 5th with pikachu than it does to get 1st with any top tier character.
no, i'm not johning for axe; "armada only won cuz he used a better char..." is an awful excuse because axe picked pikachu, but you have to be pretty stupid to think that the only thing that matters is tournament placing.
Taj got 17th at Apex using a terrible character. Some would say he's more skilled than everyone else at Apex because of what he can achieve with Mewtwo.
at the end of the day what matters is tournament placing, but skill is a different thing entirely in a game as badly balanced as smash bros.

 

[Divinokage]

It's the way these character specialists use their own character to reduce every weakness that they have.. or as much as possible. Which is why at some point, Pikachu is still Pikachu and does have more weakness than most characters... but I think many people did not realize that.. I mean I know this is a more obscure matchup for everyone else. I saw Cyrain playing quite aggro vs Axe and it seemed work.. With Fox I'm pretty sure you can mix-up all day with over-shooting or not some Nairs/shines.. things like that. If not, I know pikachu can do good stuff out of shield but he has very limited time to do it... is there really any other useful tools he has when being under pressure? His shield sucks and to me it seems like it's very tough to reset the battle too from point blank range.

Even in tournament it's impossible to have perfect play even if you are trying 100%. You can still choke under pressure or lose mental stability. You guys have to realize that it's also impossible to maintain a strong focus and react to everything, you have a finite amount of focus. Well anyways, character specialists know what to do with every single match-up because they come up much more often than any other matchups which is why it gives them the advantage vs strong players since most of them use top tiers. I can attest to that, I mean I use Ganon and I can do really well too... I trained all the top tiers match-ups to the point where it's natural to fight them.. everything comes to me instantly. But does it come instantly for other players I mean those lower tiered match-up? I think not.

That's what I gotta say for that.. and of course Axe/Taj are ****ing amazing and are very brave to pick characters like that in tournament.. the love of a character will determine your final skill level in the end.. the more you love playing a character, the better you'll create things that are unheard of. You create infinite potential. That's just how it goes.. this is what it means to be a genius. Show the love! *Wink*

 

[Druggedfox]

People do realize that some people are simply better with one character than another? That's why each person "mains" a character. People who use low tier characters either use them because they're bored or want to challenge themselves (mango), they love playing the character, or because they are naturally the best with that character. Otherwise, wouldn't everyone just use fox?

All that to say that, if Axe is using pikachu, it might just be his best character. There's no need to talk about people being more skilled because they place high with a lower tier character, because the fact of the matter is, the highest they are capable of placing might be with that character. I mean, look at jiggs. People don't take complaints of her being broken seriously, because instead of complaining, those people should just go out and prove how broken she is. Why don't they do that? Some people don't feel like being "gay", but the vast majority probably wouldn't be capable of doing anything with her.

People are better with certain characters, and people who don't play top tier characters are either purposefully limiting themselves, or using the character they feel they have the greatest potential with. Axe is a great player, but Armada is better . His ability to read other players, his spacing, his technical skill... it's all part of why he's a great player.

Honestly, Axe is amazing because of what he did and with a low tier character, but people need to get real.

 

[The Good Doctor]

People do realize that some people are simply better with one character than another? That's why each person "mains" a character. People who use low tier characters either use them because they're bored or want to challenge themselves (mango), they love playing the character, or because they are naturally the best with that character. Otherwise, wouldn't everyone just use fox?

All that to say that, if Axe is using pikachu, it might just be his best character. There's no need to talk about people being more skilled because they place high with a lower tier character, because the fact of the matter is, the highest they are capable of placing might be with that character. I mean, look at jiggs. People don't take complaints of her being broken seriously, because instead of complaining, those people should just go out and prove how broken she is. Why don't they do that? Some people don't feel like being "gay", but the vast majority probably wouldn't be capable of doing anything with her.

People are better with certain characters, and people who don't play top tier characters are either purposefully limiting themselves, or using the character they feel they have the greatest potential with. Axe is a great player, but Armada is better . His ability to read other players, his spacing, his technical skill... it's all part of why he's a great player.

Honestly, Axe is amazing because of what he did and with a low tier character, but people need to get real.

Or they might be a fan of that character/series. I know people that play Pikachu b/c they love the anime....

 

[rhan]

I play Young Link cuz I'm a huge LoZ fanatic. Also I put so much effort into learning him and every aspect since I started to play competitively. Also I like the fact that I'm at a disadvantage. Idk it's something about having to prove myself makes me play better.

Axe probably started out that way too. Got extremely good with his favorite character and didn't care about a tier list. He just wanted to play and prove himself I suppose.

Enough about that. What's the current tier placing discussion? Cuz honestly I don't see Jiggs as top 3.

 

[Druggedfox]

@rhan and thegooddoctor

I classified being a fan of the series as love of the character.

Current tier placing discussion? It depends on how we've defined the tier list. Seeing as it's based on the current metagame, you more or less have to factor in tournament results. In addition to that, matchups are the main defining characteristic.

With that said, the fact that jiggs 100% dominates big tournaments is difficult to ignore. This in addition to the fact that her only two debatable disadvantaged matchups are against marth and fox, makes her a very strong candidate for a top tier placing. Marth has next to no representation, and sheik's matchups aren't as good as jiggs as far as high tier matchups go. Fox and falco both have similarly amazing matchups to jiggs, and have huge tourney representation.

Why does it seem odd that those three would be placed as top tier?

 

[rhan]

@rhan and thegooddoctor

I classified being a fan of the series as love of the character.

Pretty much what I said. Meh.

Current tier placing discussion? It depends on how we've defined the tier list. Seeing as it's based on the current metagame, you more or less have to factor in tournament results. In addition to that, matchups are the main defining characteristic.

With that said, the fact that jiggs 100% dominates big tournaments is difficult to ignore. This in addition to the fact that her only two debatable disadvantaged matchups are against marth and fox, makes her a very strong candidate for a top tier placing. Marth has next to no representation, and sheik's matchups aren't as good as jiggs as far as high tier matchups go. Fox and falco both have similarly amazing matchups to jiggs, and have huge tourney representation.

Why does it seem odd that those three would be placed as top tier?

If Jiggs 100% dominates big tournaments then Darc would have came in top 5 instead of Axe/Armada at APEX or any other tourney. It's obvious that Jiggs has potential to place top 5 in tourneys but that player still has to be good. It's not just Jiggs alone.

Herb3 Results

1) Dr. Pee Pee (Falco)
2) HungryBox (Jiggs)
3) l0zR (Fox)
4) Tope (Sheik)
5) Everlasting Yayuhz (Fox)
5) SleepyK (Falco)

RoM2 Results

1. HungryBox (Jiggs)
2. Dr. PeePee (Falco)
3. Kage (Ganon)
4. Mango (Jiggs)
5. Jman (Fox)
5. Darc (Jiggs)

Genesis Results

1. Mango (Jiggs/Falco)
2. Armada (Peach)
3. Hungrybox (Jiggs)
4. Zhu (Falco/Fox)
5. Mew2King (Marth/Sheik)

APEX 2010 Results

1: hungrybox (Jiggs)
2: Armada (Peach)
3: mew2king (Marth/Fox)
4: Dr. Peepee (Falco)
5: Axe (Pikachu)

Just a little list of the top 5 from recent big tourneys.

If you realise things aren't just controlled by Jiggs. Falco and Peach along with Fox still place as high as they ever did. It's just people haven't learned how to play against these floaty character and are getting the best of people. That's how I see it.

 

[JPOBS]

you forgot pound 4:
1.jiggs
2.jiggs
3.sheik
4.peach
5. marth/fox/sheik

 

[Merkuri]

And Winterfest

1. Jigs
2. Jigs
3. Marth/Fox/Shiek
4. Fox/Ganon
5. Fox/Doc/Samus

 

[rhan]

My scrubby self. I thought I had those windows open to pull the results from. I guess I closed em before I copy pasted the results.

But in any case there are only 2 Jiggs players actually making it up there in top 3. And they are considered 2 of the best players in the community. It's not Jiggs beating us. It's those guys. I'm pretty sure no random Jiggs player has prevailed over anyone known or good at the game. Jiggs isn't dominating. It's those players.

Same could be said for Armada and Peach.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Raistlin got 9th at genesis. and Darc does pretty F ing well with jiggz.

 

[JPOBS]

meh, darc did pretty terribly at Apex, and raistlin was definitely a once in a lifetime fluke, i havent heard anything from him in a year.

I really want to see hbox pick up another character, it would be interesting to see how that would go

 

[Divinokage]

meh, darc did pretty terribly at Apex, and raistlin was definitely a once in a lifetime fluke, i havent heard anything from him in a year.

I really want to see hbox pick up another character, it would be interesting to see how that would go

It would be interesting but I don't see why he would want to gimp himself from placing Top 3 consistently lol.