Official MBR Tier List

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

H-box goes and picks up ness and ness is well repped He totally changes his way of play now it's all about teh fairs and bats.

Really I don't think puff is as amazing as the fox/falco tier because she can't just power **** people like how they do. Puff has to think puff is forced to me smart and I think we looked at it wrong. What if it's puff making people good? It's more than just bair I try to stage control, trap them, avoid lasers, set-up combos, and again not get hit and etc. I can't just rush them like falco lasers to dair to pillar combos.

I know my idea seems extreme but no more extreme than people trying to ban puff.

 

[a nub]

And Winterfest

1. Jigs
2. Jigs
3. Marth/Fox/Shiek
4. Fox/Ganon
5. Fox/Doc/Samus

Actually didn't mango go fox and win?

 

[Druggedfox]

I never said jiggs dominated tournaments at every level, or that it was easy. It's simply that if the best two players in the world win consistently with jiggs, that means something. I hardly think jiggs is broken, but just as marth was considered top tier when Ken and Azen dominated, or when M2K switched to marth and joined in, it makes sense that jiggs should be quite high on this new tier list.

Marth hasn't gotten worse over the years, and the metagame hasn't developed in a particular way to make him a worse character. In fact, because it's easier for marth to **** spacies than the reverse, if anything, on lower levels of play the fact that falco and fox have only been increasing in usage means marth should get benefits. Despite this, marth has dropped significantly, and many notions drift toward him being in his own tier below sheik, but above falcon and peach. Why? Usage at a high level of play. In addition, as I said earlier, jiggs' matchups are quite good. I'll quote myself here:

"This in addition to the fact that her only two debatable disadvantaged matchups are against marth and fox, makes her a very strong candidate for a top tier placing."

Falco has debatable matchups vs fox, jiggs, marth, and peach.
Fox has debatable matchups vs falco and marth.
Marth has debatable matchups vs fox, falcon, and sheik.
Sheik has debatable matchups vs jiggs, fox, falco, and ICs.
Peach has debatable matchups vs fox, jiggs, marth, falcon, and jiggs.
I won't even go into falcon and ICs disadvantaged matchups.

Debatable taken to mean, that it's debatably a disadvantaged matchup, as I said earlier.
That said:

Jiggs has debatable matchups vs fox, marth... hmm... that's it? I say this, remembering the fact that as the metagame has progressed, her matchups with fox and marth have both been getting closer and closer. Fox and marth used to be hard counters for her... now... hardly.

I'm not saying jiggs is a step above top tier characters, but I don't think anyone can ignore consistent top 2 placings at international/national tournaments, along with matchups consistently in her favor (the only character rivaling her matchups is really fox).

I end by saying that you can look at Apex results for usage if you want. Fox EASILY has the majority of uses, and is obviously top tier. He's followed by falco in that respect. After fox and falco, most characters actually have fairly equal representation. I'd be interested in seeing some weight placings vs representation as well. I say this with the fact that we *more or less* know mango would have won going jiggs/falco, had he not been hungover. I'm not johning for him (Im honestly glad hbox won), but you have to take that into consideration.

 

[BEES]

meh, darc did pretty terribly at Apex, and raistlin was definitely a once in a lifetime fluke, i havent heard anything from him in a year.

Pretty terrible? 13th out of 220 is not terrible.

There isn't enough room for all the top pros to be in the top 8.

 

[KAOSTAR]

meh, darc did pretty terribly at Apex, and raistlin was definitely a once in a lifetime fluke, i havent heard anything from him in a year.

I really want to see hbox pick up another character, it would be interesting to see how that would go

thats 4 different players to finish top ten with jiggz within a year.

all big tourneys.

jiggz *****.

 

[Strong Badam]

I never said jiggs dominated tournaments at every level, or that it was easy. It's simply that if the best two players in the world win consistently with jiggs, that means something.

yeah.... it means that the two best players in the world use jigglypuff...

 

[MTKO]

My scrubby self. I thought I had those windows open to pull the results from. I guess I closed em before I copy pasted the results.

But in any case there are only 2 Jiggs players actually making it up there in top 3. And they are considered 2 of the best players in the community. It's not Jiggs beating us. It's those guys. I'm pretty sure no random Jiggs player has prevailed over anyone known or good at the game. Jiggs isn't dominating. It's those players.

Same could be said for Armada and Peach.

I agree with you. I'm not sure if many people are thinking Jiggs needs a higher place on the tier list or not, but I think the tier list needs to represent the trends in the community as a whole. Since there're only a few great Jiggs players out there at the moment that are at the top, I don't think that warrants an increase in Jiggs' placement on the tier list, at least until we see a large portion of the community playing very well with her like you see with Fox, Marth, Sheik, and Falco players. But anyway I'm pretty much just restating the definition of a tier list, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I agree with you. I'm not sure if many people are thinking Jiggs needs a higher place on the tier list or not, but I think the tier list needs to represent the trends in the community as a whole. Since there're only a few great Jiggs players out there at the moment that are at the top, I don't think that warrants an increase in Jiggs' placement on the tier list, at least until we see a large portion of the community playing very well with her like you see with Fox, Marth, Sheik, and Falco players. But anyway I'm pretty much just restating the definition of a tier list, so I'll leave it at that.

nope lol.

jiggz is moving up

 

[rhan]

I agree with you. I'm not sure if many people are thinking Jiggs needs a higher place on the tier list or not, but I think the tier list needs to represent the trends in the community as a whole. Since there're only a few great Jiggs players out there at the moment that are at the top, I don't think that warrants an increase in Jiggs' placement on the tier list, at least until we see a large portion of the community playing very well with her like you see with Fox, Marth, Sheik, and Falco players. But anyway I'm pretty much just restating the definition of a tier list, so I'll leave it at that.

Exactly. I would be convinced that Joigss is broken or the best if random no names start playing Jiggs and start winning with her. Like if I went all Jiggs at RoM3 or Pound V or something and won THEN I'd consider her broke as ****.

nope lol.

jiggz is moving up

I agree that Jiggs is moving up and should. But I don't believe she is the best or second best character in the game. I believe that Falco's better than her imho.

 

[-Darc-]

meh, darc did pretty terribly at Apex, and raistlin was definitely a once in a lifetime fluke, i havent heard anything from him in a year.

I really want to see hbox pick up another character, it would be interesting to see how that would go

I got 13th and lost to the people that got 3rd and 4th last hit last game

Shut up.

 

[KAOSTAR]

when I say moving up I mean based on the official current list.

I think fox falco sheik are better. but jiggz is hot right now.

so fox, falco, puff, sheik makes sense from tourney results.

I also don't give a dam if hbox has never played another character in his life. ***** is legit.

lol@darc. you got 13th, obviously you don't have "true skill".

that was probably the noobiest thing ive seen jpobs write

 

[Pi]

Playing a low tier doesn't mean you're more skilled.
Playing a low tier simply means you are forfeiting options. You have less to work with, so you hone what you do have and get really good at it. TBH it's not -that- hard to play to your strengths. Once you learn the situations that your character struggles in, your next step is learning how to avoid those situations. The better you can do that, the better chance your character has. What it comes down to is how well you can avoid the situations that your character struggles with. Characters with ****ty OoS options, or a ****ty shield, need to not be in their shield. Characters with bad maneuverability need to pick their approaches carefully.

If you try to play samus like falco, you're going to lose
If you try to play pikachu like marth, you're going to lose
If you try to play ganon like fox, you're going to lose
If you try to play fox like jiggs, you're going to get top 10, but playing fox like fox might get you top 5

Each character has their own unique playstyle, with their own unique set of options.

You find out what you can do, and what you can't do, and you work with that.

 

[rhan]

when I say moving up I mean based on the official current list.

I think fox falco sheik are better. but jiggz is hot right now.

so fox, falco, puff, sheik makes sense from tourney results.

I also don't give a dam if hbox has never played another character in his life. ***** is legit.

I know what you meant lol I just hate seeing people throw out their tier list opinions and put Jiggs at the very top. It's just irritating to see that.

I also think Sheik is better but Sheik has has little representation in the past year and has fallen off a little bit. But if serious Sheik mains start getting back up in the placings then I would put Sheik back above Jiggs.

In a nutshell. Me and you have pretty much the same views when it comes to the upper part of the list.

 

[Raistlin]

and raistlin was definitely a once in a lifetime fluke, i havent heard anything from him in a year.

I wish I could dispute this, but totally true rofl.

but you def shouldn't say stuff like that about other people, sounds kinda **** lol

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

pikachu will always lose to marth? Is it because of th sheild game or what? That's the only way I could see that happening, because I really think marths are easy to fight against as pichu and pikachu's lack of a sheild and grab would hurt him. But why should you have a problem with marth? I've fought some good marths like sveet and salt and it was very easy to tell they were on a much higher level than me and I still took 2 stocks when i'm worse with a worse chartcer. Marth is just easy mode to fight.

 

[Divinokage]

I got 13th and lost to the people that got 3rd and 4th last hit last game

Shut up.

Lol seriously, some people does not even realize the difficulty of brackets sometimes... I mean I lost to the winner of Apex and 9th I think lol. Also again, I love people ****talking top players when themselves they can't even make brackets at nationals.

Edit: Darc, you must remove your curse of BS phantom hits lol. I remember again you trying to save Thorn with a reverse backair or something and it phantom hitted off stage and he died. That was so gay lol.

 

[SDC]

I got 13th and lost to the people that got 3rd and 4th last hit last game

Shut up.

On a serious note

You got 13th? Dam good **** Darc!

Can't wait till those videos will be posted, I'll add em right away.

 

[JPOBS]

I wish I could dispute this, but totally true rofl.

but you def shouldn't say stuff like that about other people, sounds kinda **** lol

I didnt mean to offend you, thats how i talk. People in real life even tell me i sometimes come off as a prick because i dont really ever sugar coat what i say and just state facts.

sorry if i sounded mean.
obligatory namesearch: Raistlin

I got 13th and lost to the people that got 3rd and 4th last hit last game

Shut up.

lmfao i sincerely apologize.

I honestly thought you did worst because iirc you got like 2nd seed in pools and went to losers very early. i kind alost track after that. Sorry though lol, 13th is legit haha.

obligatory namesearch: Darc

Lol seriously, some people does not even realize the difficulty of brackets sometimes... I mean I lost to the winner of Apex and 9th I think lol. Also again, I love people ****talking top players when themselves they can't even make brackets at nationals.
.

You ALWAYS say crap like this.

it has nothing to do with "**** talking" them. If we're going to discuss characters/tier list, the only place we have to turn is people who PLAY those characters. Just because we evaluate how they did, and try to draw relative meaning from that to determine how good the character is, doesnt mean we're insulting the players. We're merely discussing what how their placing might be a reflection of the character. geez.

 

[MTKO]

Exactly. I would be convinced that Joigss is broken or the best if random no names start playing Jiggs and start winning with her. Like if I went all Jiggs at RoM3 or Pound V or something and won THEN I'd consider her broke as ****.



I agree that Jiggs is moving up and should. But I don't believe she is the best or second best character in the game. I believe that Falco's better than her imho.

Rethinking it, I'm going to slightly change my opinion on her moving up, but I don't believe she should be higher than falco yet. Not until she's being played almost as much as him or more and also winning more often. Then I think she could go up again. So maybe she could be top of the High tier or bottom of the top tier.

 

[Divinokage]

Are you, JPobs? From what I've saw, you merely said Darc did terrible which is judging him for his placing only. And that won't pass with me. I do not like anyone judging anyone since everyone is at their own skill level depending on way too many things.. interest, love, effort, passion, mindset.. etc. I do not believe anyone is better than anyone nor less in this world since everyone has a unique path they need to follow for fulfillment. Sure paths cross but everything will change too.

So about Jiggs... I don't know man it seems like at some point if played correctly then she just might be able to surpass every character in potential. I played the match-up enough to say that if she plays defensively, it's so very hard to approach and not make a mistake and remember one mistake = death either on-stage or off-stage. It's not so garanteed with either one of the other characters. It's kinda tough to say. =p

 

[Mew2King]

It's the way these character specialists use their own character to reduce every weakness that they have.. or as much as possible. Which is why at some point, Pikachu is still Pikachu and does have more weakness than most characters... but I think many people did not realize that.. I mean I know this is a more obscure matchup for everyone else. I saw Cyrain playing quite aggro vs Axe and it seemed work.. With Fox I'm pretty sure you can mix-up all day with over-shooting or not some Nairs/shines.. things like that. If not, I know pikachu can do good stuff out of shield but he has very limited time to do it... is there. Show the love! *Wink*

dude you've gone too far LMFAO

darc u should teach me what im doing wrong.

 

[JPOBS]

the statement "darc did terrible at apex" was just a response to kaostar "darc does pretty well F in with jiggs"

In vein with the discussion that was going on at the time, when i said darc did terrible, what i was really trying to say was "darc uses jiggs, but that alone didnt magically help him place well, so jiggs cant be THAT good", so i was actually judging trying to judge jiggypuff.

It was a poor statement to make and it left too much up to reader intepretation, on top of that, i was flat out wrong lol.

 

[Divinokage]

dude you've gone too far LMFAO

darc u should teach me what im doing wrong.

<3 is what it's all about! =D Without it what can you do really?

Edit: However I did laugh at this. =P

 

[-Darc-]

It's cool Jpobs. I should have been a bit nicer to you, but I was a bit ticked off. To be fair I'm not a fan of blatantly honest people as weird as that may seem. I'm a fan of sugar coating.

M2K, stop missing L cancels LOL. I think that was the only reason I did that well. You just have to play mad gay and Upthrow upair yo. Hbox doesn't hit the smash DI all the time.

<3 Kage for having my back <3

 

[Mew2King]

he's always in the air! grabbing seems pointless :/

 

[Strong Badam]

m2k just think
how do people battle MK in brawl?
soon enough, you'll come to the conclusion that you should pick up Jiggs as your main.

 

[-Darc-]

In all honesty I don't know how to fight Jiggs past grabbing and lasering.

 

[SDC]

m2k just think
how do people battle MK in brawl?
soon enough, you'll come to the conclusion that you should pick up Jiggs as your main.

I think M2K would make a great jiggz main. It'd piss off the entire smash community, but I think he might just win more.

 

[Skler]

I missed the Link discussion. ****.

Link is pretty super bad at the matchups he's bad at (the characters people actually use that aren't Peach and Puff).

Hbox, I really want to play you. I know you're listening. Tell me the dog joke while you're at it.

I'd also like to play Mango's Puff. Puff is super easy to beat forever. Now somebody play me with Puff so I can start complaining about the **** character.

 

[nicaboy]

Raistlin is legit. very solid in teams i will vouch for that. hiss singles game is solid from what i hear. him placing 9th a genisis is no fluke. his was playing well that day is all. he can do it again he just gotta find that grove again. he was doing good vs zhu at pound 4 or at least the match i saw.

darc is hella good anyone who thinks other wise is dumb.

kage with insperational words haha.

oh dont mind me im just some guy who doesnt know what he is talking about

 

[Mew2King]

but i hate jiggs =(

she is very effective though. I do better against Jman/Hax with jiggs than with marth, fox, or sheik, just by using the get a lead and plank strategy (was able to 4 stock each of them since she is very hard to KO after doing that). But I don't want to ever have to ruin melee like that, also, hax said he'd punch me if I ever did that to him in tourney.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I doubt he could there are more players that are going to much higher levels like axe and wobbles and others. There are more amazing top level players and I doubt raistlin has been advanceing at the same pace.


at m2k love you for not ruining melee. your gay with honnor. keep the bottom tiers low and keep the high tiers high.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

lolz @ gay with honor =D
yeah M2k just be gay with Sheik and we'll still love you

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Just don't rage quit before I take your stock I hate you for that more than all the chain throwing in the world.

 

[SDC]

but i hate jiggs =(

she is very effective though. I do better against Jman/Hax with jiggs than with marth, fox, or sheik, just by using the get a lead and plank strategy (was able to 4 stock each of them since she is very hard to KO after doing that). But I don't want to ever have to ruin melee like that, also, hax said he'd punch me if I ever did that to him in tourney.

If you were gay with jiggz, I'd still love you.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

If you were gay with jiggz, I'd still love you.

but the rest of us non-puff mains wouldnt

 

[SDC]

but the rest of us non-puff mains wouldnt

You'd hate M2K simply because of the character he uses? Lol sounds like you're not a real fan to me.

 

[NJzFinest]

but i hate jiggs =(

she is very effective though. I do better against Jman/Hax with jiggs than with marth, fox, or sheik, just by using the get a lead and plank strategy (was able to 4 stock each of them since she is very hard to KO after doing that). But I don't want to ever have to ruin melee like that, also, hax said he'd punch me if I ever did that to him in tourney.

Mango, Darc, Raistlin, Hbox, and King don't stall.

Well, King did vs Silentwolf way back, but eh.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

You'd hate M2K simply because of the character he uses? Lol sounds like you're not a real fan to me.

I've always been a fan of Marth mains... and he has an awesome Fox =D and a really nice sheik... thats what made me a fan of his... but puff is boring to watch so yes i would hate him if he picked up puff as his main

 

[JPOBS]

i love how m2k doesnt want to ruin melee, but he has no second thoughts ruining brawl.

Mew2King: The Peoples Champ.