Mew2King
King of the Mews
I think Ganons better than Samus for sure personally. Not by much though. I know Samus is better vs fox/falco I think??? Ganon's WAY better vs Marth
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
- Status
Magik0722
Smash Champion
Samus is low tier
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Thank you john! I don't understand why he was so. because i'm not very rude at least i don't think I am. I was simplely giving the basic reasons why I thought pichu>kirby gives some info about kirby.
But I think wobbling would help a lot, because keep in mind they can easily ct anyone non floaty, so where wobbling would help would be some of their tougher match-ups like peach maybe puff, luigi and samus.
It's not like giving fox a wall in a stage or anything that hardcore because they could eaily F*** you up even without their chain throws.
I've thought this forever.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Discussing Pichu and Kirby and characters like them have no relevance to tournament discussion. This is just a tier discussion so it's mildly relevant, but since nobody with reasonable success uses most of these ****ty characters it's not too interesting to discuss.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Thankyou. By in practical terms, I mean the tournament scene. Pichu and Kirby are so terribad it makes no difference who you thinks over the other.
And when I said no one cared, I meant about ICG's posts on Pichu, not the characters.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Your still totally wrong, even in being rude. I'm geussing you don't want anyone to post about samus or lower so instead of pointing out things to a newer member I should've told them it doesn't mean 2 s***s. Also maybe I should go beyond that and make you real happy happy and post sheik wins when ever a low/bottom tier player posts or be a douche by some other means.
Dude it's not like no one plays as anyone under link. I know that there are 3 people. Also if you took away all those autorape match-ups sheik would fall a little. Also they have untouched metagame compared to the high tiers so there are more ideas to throw around and think. High tiers we have a good understanding of so what are we going to talk about for fox/puff/marth/falco that isn't new?
Dude it's not like no one plays as anyone under link. I know that there are 3 people. Also if you took away all those autorape match-ups sheik would fall a little. Also they have untouched metagame compared to the high tiers so there are more ideas to throw around and think. High tiers we have a good understanding of so what are we going to talk about for fox/puff/marth/falco that isn't new?
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Why weren't you around in 2002 to advance Pichu's metagame?
It goes for Pichu, it goes for a lot of characters: there's no room for any real improvement.
Fundamentals take huge precedence over situational character specific techniques. The way the game works keeps certain characters from advancing and it's propelled others to the top, where they've been since the release of the game.
It goes for Pichu, it goes for a lot of characters: there's no room for any real improvement.
Fundamentals take huge precedence over situational character specific techniques. The way the game works keeps certain characters from advancing and it's propelled others to the top, where they've been since the release of the game.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I wanted melee even then even if I didn't know it's name, I saw n64 and wanted it. But thank you, you made it sound as if i've done something to advance pichu's metagame speacking of which hint hint new list. I think i've helped his metagame.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
I was mostly just criticizing you...
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Yes I know, the one thing that may have been a complint was worth more than any insult anyone could throw at me.
Leviathan741
Smash Ace
If you can't understand that falcon is worse than marth and sheik then there is no point in discussing the rest of the tier list with you either....
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
He's jus trooooollin
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
No offense, but... how?
Imma let you finish, but Pichu has one of the best nairs of all time. ALL TIME.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
Things's i've discovered for pichu.
More about up-B than magus knows(if he knows more why didn't he tell anyone?) I've figured out the 3 parts of the move and their details like one part can't sweetpot, also can't go thougt platforms going down, and one part can be used to cancel the lag and is OMG good.
double up-B smash up-B to the upper left or right corner twice really fast. It maxs out his recovery
you can legitly combo with the mopve thunder on fox/falco/(rarly) falcon like if you don;t get hit with thunder and you hit them you can easily land an air attack i've done this in training mode/real matches. but vs fox in training mode i've landed thunder f-smash on FD at 0% LOL
smash-B to max recovery could go to axe I geuss<3
pichu's jab is so low peach/zedla can't grab him so you have very good sheild pressure very them.
many mindgame ideas I won't share with you. I have a notebook with 20 pages of ideas
pichu can also approach with side-B and it does work if you know when to use it.
up-throw up-tilti makes it easier to regrab and rack up more damage vs fox.
if you can up-tilt fair and fair to up-tilt you have a pichu pillar. BUT sadly up-tilt isn't fast enough or fair doesn't have enough stun so fox or whoever can eaily shine or jab out. if pichu had like 2 more frames of stun on those 2 moves he would be pillaring his nuts off.
fair beats knee very useful for recovering.
f-throw dropzone fair to regrab off of platforms they normally don't react that fast.
fox/falco up-air to _____ till 60% falcon is 20%ish but he can be juggled with upair for a long time just not up-air upsmash like fox/falco.
Ask some people who are on the pichu boards.
he isn't joking in any way or shape or form, the only glaw is it doesn't have more hit stun like fox's if it did mother F***er this move would be broken if you ask me, also pichu has some of the best movement in the game without a doubt.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
what happened to ic's maaaan
ic's are way better than pichu
ic's are way better than pichu
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
No ckok their down-smash alone is better in every way thinkable. Sorry I love them ice climbers, but I hate all the tech skill I want with them so I will only be spamming down-smash and also in the match-ups I love for them I love even more for pichu. I will still play them I need to stop also playing as random because random doesn't love the ice climbers.
I love them so much, but sadly i'm slowly turning to a gasp pichu main, don't look at me I feel ugly.
EDIT
but sadly I don't know how to play if I have the right tools to. Like my pichu is waaay better than anyone esle I mess around with i've seen it with my own eyes. My marth uber failed right after my pichu did uber good and i'm better at spacing with marth(at least I get the tippers).
But I don't know how to use good options, but hey maybe i'll pichu vs peach and ic vs sheik or something. I will try to play as them more I ***** a noob all day today and didn't even use them I used falco(only one in this game I can combo with).
I love them so much, but sadly i'm slowly turning to a gasp pichu main, don't look at me I feel ugly.
EDIT
but sadly I don't know how to play if I have the right tools to. Like my pichu is waaay better than anyone esle I mess around with i've seen it with my own eyes. My marth uber failed right after my pichu did uber good and i'm better at spacing with marth(at least I get the tippers).
But I don't know how to use good options, but hey maybe i'll pichu vs peach and ic vs sheik or something. I will try to play as them more I ***** a noob all day today and didn't even use them I used falco(only one in this game I can combo with).
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Lmao. *******
Winston
Smash Master
Grab handoff only works by the edge since otherwise nana throws in unpredictable directions...
grab release never works since nana will always throw.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I love every single post this guy does it's amazing it's even better than dogy's walls of text, sorry.
I just think this guy has the greatest posts of all time, the only reason i've looked at some threads is because I saw his name D*** good stuff
xXx-NoobKing-xXx
Smash Hero
**** when the **** did Pichu become the topic of discussion in this thread. Pichu is still the worst, sorry guys.
Xianglian
Smash Journeyman
I think you need a hug
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
can you back that up? do you play as both pichu and kirby? Unlike most people I study both sides before I start disargeeing with everything.
the best things about kirby are his duck and tilts.
really please tell me how in the kirby, kirby could even be hinted to being better than pichu? Really, kirby's metagame has never ever ever changed(talking about after they discover the WD).
kirby recovery/range/speed/approach/punishment/ and about anything esle you can think of sucks balls. I'm going to compare them in depth. prepare for them walls.
kirby vs pichu
recovery-Kirby's di is fairly limited,floatly,light so he is hit fairly fast and is slow to stop flying also due to his high hitstun.kirby has 4 short jumps(can fair in between) and up-B. anyone with eyes can see how he is recovering plus his jumps are really slow and make him bigger. Do I need to say more?
pichu-better di, faster faller, but lighter about the same as kirby's really. Pichu's up-B can cover so many paths you can sweetspot the edge or land on the stage like 3 different ways at one spot most of the time, smash side-B max out recovery, wall jumps give you time, you can also ride up walls, fair/B can be used to stop incoming attacks or edge gaurding. Pichu has about 200 ways to use his recover, also a few things he doesn't seem to pull his body that much just barely, and there are only a few flaws: takes damage(but you live longer LOL I know sheik wishs she has pichu's up-B even if it hurt),you can't use the C-stick to di with fair/dair, and his tiny sweetspot, but of course it's the most lagless move in the game when you land it on the stage.
Pichu is at the point in the recovery game where he just shouldn't get hit unless he is really predictable or hit really far out.
recovery
Pichu>>>kirby
grab game
kirby.
f/b-throw- easy to break out of the throw and punish LOL you could use it to kill if they are at a high percent and don't react of course if they do you die they live.
d-throw-only decent throw can tech chase fairly long and sometimes combo. Pity he has to read fast due to his slow run/wd.
up-throw can SD kill on YS ,but they can up-B back and live. only it's 100% on rainbow ride
The highlights of his grab game is it's range and he can do it out of his sheild.
set ups I believe jab/up-tilt(why did you grab when you could up-tilt again?)/ maybe dair.
Pichu's grabs
pummel-best in game extra stun time and it's the fastest in the game but it's fairly fail
f-throw-legit vs peach as a chain throw so i've heard at 0%. It's best as f-throw nair vs puff.(worse throw)
D-throw- good tech chase set-up, faster run and good jab reset options make this throw better, sometimes you can d-throw up-smash.
b-throw- good off the stage, out of my face move, pichu can tech chase this if he up-Bs after them.
up-throw- 0 deaths space animals and can follow up vs everyone in the game normally upthrow-upair-dair for a solid 30%.
set-ups fair/up-tilt/nair/upair/B
pichu has a more solid grab game.
grabs
pichu>(maybe>>) kirby
combo game
kirby- uptilt stuff and dair to tilt is about all kirby really has for a legit combo. Maybe up-smash vs FFers without di. Please tell me if there is some thing i'm forgetting
pichu- upair to _____ till 60% vs space animals and 20% for on ground stuff vs falcon. pichu can upair juggle a lot of people and very few dairs outrange his upair LOL pichu having better range.
B-to grab/tilt/non F-smash smash.
f-throw to nair
jab reset f-smash
up-throw upair dair
nair to tilt/grab/nair
fair to tilt/grab
up-tilt to air attack
up-smash/upair/uptilt/upthrow are lol **** moves when combing falco/fox.
thunder to whatever very fox if thunder doesn't hit you can you run fast enough. really you can thunder f-smash fox on FD. kindof makes me want to up-throw (fox strong di) to running thunder to up-smash. of course i've only have gotten like 3 legit thunder combo in a real hardcore match normally to nair due to the percent.
combos
pichu>(maybe >>)kirby
Finsihing them(non-edge gaurd)
kirby- best ways. upair/down-smash maybe hammer sweetspoted.
only way to set these up is up-tilt but if you want to KILL this won't work because it no longer combos. upair is just bad raneg wise. the other 2 aren't that fast and have to be sweetspoted. Bair can kill at higher percents and these can't set-up edge gaurd.
pichu- f-smash(strongest in the the game easily) up-smash(very easy to sneak in 6th strongest), dair/down-smash/nair/thunder/side-B/b-throw gets them off stage.
set-ups for
f-smash-upair below 60% vs fox/falco, jab reset. however a common flaw is it can be SDIed out of not as slow as kirby's kill moves.
upsmash-mindgames are staight up legit on this one I don't care to explain, but D*** mindgames work on this and it beats falcon's dair. up-B to up-smash works.
killing
pichu>kirby
overall punishment pichu>kirby
movement
pichu>>>kirby
evading
kirby's duck is useful if you predict what they are going to do the you can punish them with d-tilt sweet huh? he also has a good WD.
pichu's dd is really good, useful wd,up-B has limtless uses for getting in. pichu is smaller and can run under missles about 60% of the time(not the DDing part).
I wanted to say evading because both will camp and bait.
they are eqaul here maybe one a little better.
dealing with camping
kirby- no good projectile, really slow, can't approach/follow them get *****.
pichu better sheild, up-B can be used to punish links for throwing the boomrange from a fair distance. can keep up with everyone in the game and has a good projectile.
pichu>>>kirby
taking hits
they both have high hit stun and are light.
kirby, not chain thrown by many people, somewhat limts some combos. killed up the top much easier
pichu everyone chain throws him(sheik laughs) he hurts himself like 15-25% a stock mostly from recovery but keep in mind they take that damage also.
kirby>>pichu it's the ONLY thing kirby has on pichu is he can take a hit a little bit better.
spacing
it isn't just range.
kirby can't really use movement that much to space other than wd back d-tilt. kirby's spacing is like bowser fairing vs pichu's is like falcon DDing to fair pichu has much worse range in the case but his dding/speed lets him land the attacks. pichu's DDing is how he spaces/approachs a lot and it's much better. pichu is safer. kirby can bair wall but are you really going to say that works? are you?
I wish a falcon could explain this better
pichu>>kirby
Approach
does kirby have any mixups? mixups not mindgames I think he has running grab and SHFFL fair and sometimes suck at the begining. all are very risky and kirby shouldn't appraoch even his bad camping is much better than his approach.
pichu SHFFL is amazing fast, clean, and hard to punish like fox's nair and it can combo, so it's a lower risk higher reward. plus full hop B and up-B to whatever while he is safe DDing.
pichu>kirby
kirby can have edge gaurding I rereally don't think his edge gaurd is that great but whatever.
kirby>pichu
please for the of bad teirs htell me how kirby is better.
I wish someone would read this AND use logic but ahhh back to backing KK and PR hate me good times.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Well what do you want to talk about adam?
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Yea, Im not feelin it either.
unless it a joke, meaning he doesnt want to hear anything at all.
unless it a joke, meaning he doesnt want to hear anything at all.
john!
Smash Hero
It's all right, you can leave if you want to, we won't mind... in fact it's nice having to read less pointless baseless posts.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
well of all the walls of texts i've done for pichu vs kirby people still say kirby is better without a reason to why. Well if anyone esle says kirby>pichu please give a decent reason why, because I can't see how anyone in the right mind whould say kirby is better at this point. I've gathered all the facts on both sides and i'm tried of people who don't even know their moves say kirby is better.
otg
Smash Master
Dude, kirby is awful. Pichu is awful. Kirby is probably worse. WHO CARES?
Pointless baseless posts... like the ones arguing which terrible character is slightly better than the other?
Sounds good to me.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
I'm trying to prove something what are you doing?
-Darc-
Heir to the Monado
Sigged.
And IF they care about low tiers then let them care. No one is asking for you to come in and post your opinion if you are just going to complain, just like the people you don't like.
You could just start another discussion that people actually care about.
-Darc-
Heir to the Monado
Yeah man, I was trying to start a discussion with otg.
smash-related?
I think sheik is better than fox:
-tech chase.
-even or better match-ups with all of top tier and high tier except for fox.
- projectile
-can become another character, good as a mix-up
-fox hasn't won a major tourney since the beginning of the world.
I think sheik is better than fox:
-tech chase.
-even or better match-ups with all of top tier and high tier except for fox.
- projectile
-can become another character, good as a mix-up
-fox hasn't won a major tourney since the beginning of the world.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
you have no idea how amazing side-B is for a random attack I don't know how to explain but it does work at higher percents least 50%.
- Status