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Official MBR Tier List

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adumbrodeus

adumbrodeus

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Pink Reaper said:
You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Apparently you both believe and dont believe the match up chart at the same time.
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I think this falls into more of a "everything they say in the news is true, except what you have personal experience with" situation.


He doesn't seem to have a strong opinion on the MU so he relies on the chart, the other one he has a strong opinion on so he discounts the chart.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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No its more like it was under discussion before they decided to start from fox and move down and discuss the matchups. I expect it to be changed when it comes time to discuss it.
 
Pink Reaper

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What proof do you have that Falcon is worse than Marth/Sheik?

I have http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267771 showing that on average Falcon is better than both Marth and Sheik. As of right now mine is the only list that relies 100% on data whereas everyone elses relies on theory and guesswork. If you can at least put some backing behind you're assertions then maybe we can get somewhere.
 
INSANE CARZY GUY

INSANE CARZY GUY

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reaper has a point, however however however, should we also use the match-up chart? Is that aslo uber legit to use? Sheik is highest on that easily she does have more **** match-ups than anyone esle in the game you can't disagrue with that. It could be from something simple as the fact there aren't 5 sheik good sheik's at every tourment unlike falcon. Say if there were like 15 pichu's at each tourment it's bounded to have at least 1 place does this mean pichu should be low tier because he places higher becuase there are way more players?

I know you can't argee with that.
 
Winston

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Pink Reaper said:
What proof do you have that Falcon is worse than Marth/Sheik?

I have http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267771 showing that on average Falcon is better than both Marth and Sheik. As of right now mine is the only list that relies 100% on data whereas everyone elses relies on theory and guesswork. If you can at least put some backing behind you're assertions then maybe we can get somewhere.
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You're just using this to explain to people why they shouldn't just post arbitrary lists without explanation, right?

because a tier list should not be and never has been based 100% on data >.>
 
adumbrodeus

adumbrodeus

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Honestly, I've been saying this about the Brawl data for a long time, without accounting for population it's simply not statistically valid.

Granted, useful for tracking current centralization, but by the same reasoning, you should take up smoking to avoid cardiovascular disease.
 
J

`Jammin' Jobus

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Pink Reaper said:
What proof do you have that Falcon is worse than Marth/Sheik?

I have http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267771 showing that on average Falcon is better than both Marth and Sheik. As of right now mine is the only list that relies 100% on data whereas everyone elses relies on theory and guesswork. If you can at least put some backing behind you're assertions then maybe we can get somewhere.
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mm your falcon my sheik?


llololol.


sheik has been an unpopular character forever, that is why an average less sheiks place well.

m2k will still 4 stock darkrain tho.
 
gm jack

gm jack

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If a Sheik has techchasing down to top of the metagame level (see Amsah), Sheik is even (or at least very close to it) with the spacies, as she can do some horrible things to them out of a techchase. She has an advantage on Marth (slight), in NSTC, goes about even with Peach (see Amsah vs Armada, the top of the metagame for each character) and destroys CF (see M2K destroying Darkrain). However, Jiggs is a real problem, as Sheiks tricks don't work while all of puffs do.

Falcon places well though the sheer quantity of people who play him.
 
TheManaLord

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falcon is such a lucky char

there is definitly luck involved in tech chasing / reading

if your reads are down or your opponent messes up falcon can be mad deadly

but otherwise he gets ***** by truly competent players
 
KAOSTAR

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Somebody should write a program that takes into account character selection that could be integrated into tio.

A national ranking system could also be used. Like the chess ranking system. It *****
 
Fortress | Sveet

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I considered asking neal to include a character selected option in his program, but i think it would be too rough because some players wouldn't know what character they were breaking out until the time came.

Instead, I am going to be making a web form that a TO can fill out to submit the data for their tournament.
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

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They dont need to submit until after. Should be easy to do when they report results.

its just a bit more information.

For locals should be mad easy, takes a bit more work on large tourneys but its manageable.

something like reporting games, x player won 2-1. represent with an x or an o.

/yl x Cfal/mar o Cfal/m2 x fox/ something a bit more refined but could be **** for rankings and recognition and tier list.
 
Mew2King

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Jiggs
Fox/Falco
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Ganon

DK/Mario/Luigi some order as 11th. I personally think DK (but luigi is better for low tier tourneys vs other low tiers imo slightly).

^ that is the true tier list. This is how likely these characters are to win a major tourney at high level, which is all that really matters. I have spent a LOT of time making up this list to be 100% accurate. It is in exact order. Please consider it.
 
ranmaru

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Hmmm, confusing. What if we just play with who we like then?
 
dch111

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xbombr said:
But, what's the ratio of Falcon to Marth in terms of mains and tournament attendence?
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I wonder if there's a way to use such ratios to statistically adjust the ranking to remove skews due to popularity. Not for replacing the actual rankings, of course, but it would be interesting to see another angle of the data. I think with all the statistical tools out there that can test for significance or skews, it can be done, even if only in a pseudo sort of way.
 
TheManaLord

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Yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have tons of smashfests these days. Big ones. Some people are getting better.

There might also be a tournament in Oswego during the summertime. Like, a few at least.
 
D

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i like m2k's list

if it were singles only, i'd put jiggs on even ground with fox/falco rather than above.

also, im not sure about doc/ganon. why is doc higher? range, ko power, recovery are all better with ganon. and he can gimp well. are doc's approach (which isn't really even that much better with patient opponents that just jab or bair the pill), and speed that much better to put him higher? i figure chaingrabs shouldnt really happen with his oompaloompa stature, so i dont consider that too big of a plus
 
TheManaLord

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Divinokage said:
If he's going off TOURNAMENT RESULTS, then Ganon should be higher than Doc, Samus, ICs easily. Such contradiction!
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The problem is they're using bad tournaments where the top 16/8/4/2 or whatever are hardly adept players so weird characters weasel into good positions.
 
Fortress | Sveet

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Thats not true at all. The small/bad tournaments are worth much less points. This is because they mean much less. The formula for points is (entryfee * entrants * basepoints) / (numberOfCharactersUsed * 160). Base points are 10-win, 7-2nd, 4-top4, 1-top8.

a 13 man tournament with $5 entry fee:
first- (13*5*10)/160 = 4.0625 points
2nd- (13*5*7)/160 = 2.84375 points
top4- (13*5*4)/160 = 1.625 points
top8- (13*5*1)/160 = 0.40625 points

compared to genesis (290 entrants, $20 entry fee):
first- (290*20*10)/160 = 362.5 points
2nd- (290*20*7)/160 = 253.75 points
top4- (290*20*4)/160 = 145 points
top8- (290*20*1)/160 = 36.25 points
 
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