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Official MBR Tier List

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Xianglian

Xianglian

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INSANE CARZY GUY said:
Really if everyone could powersheild(other than shine and rest of course) every attack and did they could still be beaten. They could be forced in the air, you could grab or force them to approach or maybe space way to good where you looks like you hit them and the sheild and you f-smash by the time they drop their sheild.

Also if fox JC shined him (pretending he could powersheild them all) fox could easily just JC shine him off the map it would be slow and uber techical but wouldn't be punished.

Maybe even sheild stab them if they are G&W or something.

I feel nothing is ipossible in melee or really anything in gameplay is really broken other than non-ice climber chain throws because you can add least SDi out of theirs unlike any other's chain throws. But no john, I just laugh and counter pick ice climbers
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So....then fox does not belong first the top tier, because i have talked to people and they said that this list was old. True? Untrue?

All i am saying is that Fox cannot consistently win tournaments so he doesn't belong #1 on the top tier (isn't this list for 2008?). And people play with falco more than fox. I know that people play with fox -duh, but do they win? You have to be technically perfect in order to main fox properly and win consistently, correct?. I request clarity, from someone, please.
 
EC_Joey

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Xianglian said:
So....then fox does not belong first the top tier, because i have talked to people and they said that this list was old. True? Untrue?

All i am saying is that Fox cannot consistently win tournaments so he doesn't belong #1 on the top tier (isn't this list for 2008?). And people play with falco more than fox. I know that people play with fox -duh, but do they win? You have to be technically perfect in order to main fox properly and win consistently, correct?. I request clarity, from someone, please.
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It's not all about technical consistency. A big part of it is how well a player can predict, punish, apply pressure, and react to pressure. A lot of that involves smart thinking and matchup experience. Positions on the tier list reflect what a character is capable of, it doesn't take into account an individual player's skill and playstyle.
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

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Mew2King said:
yeah let's talk about something unrealistic like perfect shielding every move then doing shine combo to death or something that is realistically impossible and unreliable <.<

i hear this stuff waayyyy too much lol
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Dont you remember!! that happend to................
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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SMYM:

1. Fox
2. Fox
3. ICs
4. Fox/Pikachu
5. Falcon
5. Fox

yeah fox really isn't good enough to compete at the top level.
 
INSANE CARZY GUY

INSANE CARZY GUY

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Nope and pikachu is able to and when there 2 more pikachu's that placed?

I don't think fox will or should ever be lower than 1# maybe MAYBE falco one day but anyone esle should have like a new tech were they can melt out fox's eyes or something. maybe if if they find out some kind of way to do a homing rest that can be canceled on frame 15 followed by another homing rest faster than samus's homing grab.
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

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Sveet said:
SMYM:

1. Fox
2. Fox
3. ICs
4. Fox/Pikachu
5. Falcon
5. Fox

yeah fox really isn't good enough to compete at the top level.
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how big was this tourney? I just dont remember hearing about it.

Fox does well at smaller regional and locals, he just isnt ****** at nationals. Still, fox has to be number 1.
 
INSANE CARZY GUY

INSANE CARZY GUY

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ohhhh and most people who were in the top 5 were fox.

Really fox is retarted to compare with but not broken. there is no one with more solid kill power up-smash and is really good at edge gaurding, a shine can =kill the fastest move in the game can set-up basically any move and can easily be set-up like nair, uptilt, shine, dair off the top of my head not counting how you can just go do a running shine and go with that.

he has the 2nd best movement in the game.

best camper or best set-up as a camper.

very flexible play style.

and etc. he just has a lot in his favor it's ****** but he just can't take hits that's his only really big flaw
 
BluePeachy100

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I said something stupid like "Fox wasn't as viable as he used to be" I dunno what I was thinking when I said that, but I know for a fact that it was stupid. It's just the fact that Fox is being used much less than in the past. I don't think Fox has really gotten worse, just that people were playing Falco, and Puff more, ect. and they advanced a lot more quickly. That's what Metagame basically revolves around. Seeing as there are less Foxes, if there was a new tier list and Fox was lower on it, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
INSANE CARZY GUY

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I would say falcon of course that's what i think because you could pull up puff and say she has the best or say luigi due to his massive wd or someone that has move than just airspeed, dding, and wding as legit movement.

Like samus for her SWD or pichu for his up-B stuff which is uber legit.

But I think falcon=1 movement wise even if it isn't as smooth as fox's/ marth's
 
JPOBS

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BluePeachy100 said:
I said something stupid like "Fox wasn't as viable as he used to be" I dunno what I was thinking when I said that, but I know for a fact that it was stupid. It's just the fact that Fox is being used much less than in the past. I don't think Fox has really gotten worse, just that people were playing Falco, and Puff more, ect. and they advanced a lot more quickly. That's what Metagame basically revolves around. Seeing as there are less Foxes, if there was a new tier list and Fox was lower on it, I wouldn't be surprised.
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I dont think fox's usage has gone down at all.

i think whats happening is that people have caught up (and have been caught up for a while ) with fox's overwhelmingness and have mastered how to play against him.

the same cycle has happened numerous times already in Melee, wherein the TOP players have pushed certain characters meta's just a little ahead of everyone else, and the rest are playing catch up. Early on, sheik was dominant because she was just ahead of the curve and it took a while for the rest of the metagame to catch up and slowly sheik was overthrown.

Then Marth came along as the powerhouse , having the top players at the time using him and advancing his metagame naturally beyond other chars and it took a while for the community at large to catch up to it.

All the while Fox has been a standard secondary for top pros, and people have been placing well with him, its just that no dominant player (people who win tournies) has ever mained fox, but every single one of them ken, m2k, kdj, PC, azen, (sans Chu) had a fox to fall back on.

its interesting because i think the exact same thing is happening again. Jiggs' metagame is advancing and moving along in the hands of top players, and its just taking everyone a while to adjust to changes and catch up. One thing certainly helping jiggs to is unlike other powerhouses, she isnt traditionally seen as a "fun" character to play, as a result, not many people play her and by extension, not many people have great experience fighting her, so the metagame on 'how to beat jiggs' is progressing a lot slower than did that of "how to beat sheik/marth/falco/fox" because when those characters were in power, there where hundreds of people playing them so anti strategies developed relatively quickly.

but if you looks at instances like Colbol beating Hbox pretty consistently in florida tournies, its clear that experience is all it takes, but most people straight up dont have experience vs quality jiggs.

Phew...I got way too into that lol
 
EC_Joey

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JPOBS said:
I dont think fox's usage has gone down at all.

i think whats happening is that people have caught up (and have been caught up for a while ) with fox's overwhelmingness and have mastered how to play against him.

the same cycle has happened numerous times already in Melee, wherein the TOP players have pushed certain characters meta's just a little ahead of everyone else, and the rest are playing catch up. Early on, sheik was dominant because she was just ahead of the curve and it took a while for the rest of the metagame to catch up and slowly sheik was overthrown.

Then Marth came along as the powerhouse , having the top players at the time using him and advancing his metagame naturally beyond other chars and it took a while for the community at large to catch up to it.

All the while Fox has been a standard secondary for top pros, and people have been placing well with him, its just that no dominant player (people who win tournies) has ever mained fox, but every single one of them ken, m2k, kdj, PC, azen, (sans Chu) had a fox to fall back on.

its interesting because i think the exact same thing is happening again. Jiggs' metagame is advancing and moving along in the hands of top players, and its just taking everyone a while to adjust to changes and catch up. One thing certainly helping jiggs to is unlike other powerhouses, she isnt traditionally seen as a "fun" character to play, as a result, not many people play her and by extension, not many people have great experience fighting her, so the metagame on 'how to beat jiggs' is progressing a lot slower than did that of "how to beat sheik/marth/falco/fox" because when those characters were in power, there where hundreds of people playing them so anti strategies developed relatively quickly.

but if you looks at instances like Colbol beating Hbox pretty consistently in florida tournies, its clear that experience is all it takes, but most people straight up dont have experience vs quality jiggs.

Phew...I got way too into that lol
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Nice. Well thought-out, plausible.

Complete opposite of ICG's posts.
 
adumbrodeus

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Pink Reaper said:
Actually it's a good thing. A large reason that a good portion of the community doesnt know is cus they're relatively new. We're still getting new players so they still have to learn alot of older concepts. It happens.

Does the brawl community still not know what auto canceling is?
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I've noticed that actually, I even convinced a reasonable number of people to become melee players myself. I dunno, I still feel like this stuff should be common knowledge because it seems like most players here know a lot of the more "advanced" stuff, but are missing a lot of the basic building blocks conceptually.



And nah, Brawl community knows all about auto-canceling, primarily because 90% of the cast has at least one move that auto-canceling is fundamental to it's usage, it's not quite equivalent to l canceling, but pretty close in terms of how basic it is to the metagame.
 
KAOSTAR

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I realized for awhile I lost sight of the basics in place of tech skill. I started running at ppl and trying to infinite nair shine and all kinds of stupid stuff.

SPACING *****.

but because the game is sooo far progressed, new players try to catch up as fast as they can. Ive seen ppl trying to waveshine b4 they could l cancel, or wavelanding/dashing before they could shffl.

Nobody truly wants to start at step 1, its overwhelming how far behind you are.
 
gm jack

gm jack

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Because as interesting and as useful as spacing is, people get destroyed by people with good tech skill and spacing, and only see the tech skill. On the other hand, the game is as such a level that while spacing is great, it you can't do some of the basic techs like shffling, you still can get punished for it.
 
INSANE CARZY GUY

INSANE CARZY GUY

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Who is ICG?

is it

Ice cream gore
I created God
I can't glow

or what?

Oh wait is it that one person who was banned named INSANE CARZY GURL? For some reason they thought she was me. But really who is ICG?

I'm glad people also think puff's rain of evilness will only last for so long, I also argee with JBOPs on the fox thing. But I disargee with him saying puff is boring/gay puff is the funnest pokemon in melee/64(my veiws)
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

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INSANE CARZY GUY said:
Who is ICG?

is it

Ice cream gore
I created God
I can't glow

or what?

Oh wait is it that one person who was banned named INSANE CARZY GURL? For some reason they thought she was me. But really who is ICG?

I'm glad people also think puff's rain of evilness will only last for so long, I also argee with JBOPs on the fox thing. But I disargee with him saying puff is boring/gay puff is the funnest pokemon in melee/64(my veiws)
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What happened to incoherency? I understood all of that, you only misspelled: "agree JPOBs disagree views." I dont trust you.
 
INSANE CARZY GUY

INSANE CARZY GUY

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because i'm just that dull and uneventful.
That nearly triped me up I nearly LOled.
But how long has this ICG thing been kept from me? It was was more well kept than cartoons being real.

wait.... does this mean INSANE CARZY GUY? are you saying i'm mentally flawed to a level where I need high level help?

But back on topic if there ever was a topic. is it me or is ness way to high?

EDIT:sorry kaostar my computer is messed up and sometimes it makes me start typing in the middle of my post and other stuff that could be why it seems like it makes sence.
 
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