Official MBR Tier List

[JPOBS]

A tierlist based of MUs wouldnt even be that bad.
the 2 problems i see with it are:
1) the game changes and matchups change slightly. you could never have a final tier list based on MUs and we'd have to keep updating
2)People often mistake the Top charactr on the list for being unbeatable. A tier list based on MU would probably have sheik at the top, and people would be stupid and say "but she loses to fox/falco so she cant be the top" which is absurd and completely besides the point.

i still think its better than what we currently have, some slapdash tier list composed of some parts frame perfectness, some parts tourny results, and some parts matchup bias, where different people value these different aspects to differening intensities, hence the constant debate on what they htink should happen with the list.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

It's not based on what ifs like what if ____, could happen and etc. Everyone has potential to be WAAAAAYYYYY better but it has to be actualized for it to mean anything.

I mean I know say that _____ can win staight up by dd camping well or anyone with a wd long enough to get out of the way of marth

 

[john!]

The tier list shouldn't be about theory or perfection. It should be about results and observation.

 

[N64]

ITT a random smasher comes in, mentions frame perfect play, and we debate about what actually makes a tier list for the 1000th time.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Also should mindgames count in the tier list? Some people clearly have tools to help them adapt/learn/mindgame better like puff has that mental effect same for a camping fox.

Shopuld the mental effects that below to just them count? Because if so I think pichu's up-B tricks should count for something.

 

[JPOBS]

i fail to see how any character can intrinsically have any mental effect.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

sheik vs pichu i win.

Also red gannon scarys me reminds me of when I was ***** as a small child.

 

[JPOBS]

im not even gonna respond to that.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

to late you alreadly did. but any match-up where you know your F***ed it's hard to fight it though becuase you alreadly doubt youself. Plus puff's rest or jab in mango case can be deadly

 

[Signia]

Also should mindgames count in the tier list? Some people clearly have tools to help them adapt/learn/mindgame better like puff has that mental effect same for a camping fox.

Shopuld the mental effects that below to just them count? Because if so I think pichu's up-B tricks should count for something.

That's just having a large number of options. Characters themselves do not have mindgames. Could you please stop posting so much?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That's just having a large number of options. Characters themselves do not have mindgames. Could you please stop posting so much?

I dunno.

Fox is a pretty smart dude.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Mew2King]

Marth's sword is more disjointed than puff's bair.

Marth's sword is faster than puff's bair in every way

Marth has much better ground speed and mobility

Puff has slightly better air movement.

If they just stand off with puff on one side of a line and marth on the other, puff has to play a LOT safer and smarter than marth. Marth can basically spam his sword around and puff has to work to get through. She can't simply bair at marth and get a hit from it. It doesn't work like that. Her moves are all slower and at best share the same range.

When you talk about overall stage mobility and ability to choose where the fights take place, marth has that won.

The only thing that i think goes in favor of puff is that marth can be edge guarded. In straight up KO potential, they are about even.

you really honestly have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you really honestly have no idea what you are talking about

Yeah well who do you think you are?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

He's the best marth player since like 2007 right?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

wow this thread's kind of funny. it seems to go infinitely in circles.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

He's the best marth player since like 2007 right?

I've never heard of him, he must not be good.

 

[mood4food77]

sveet you are really making yourself look bad

ganon marth is nowhere near **** for either side
-they have similar reach but marth wins the speed department in every way, what keeps it even is that ganon can KO marth in basically 5 hits (his KO power is ABSURD, no one comes anywhere close)
-marth can juggle ganon with ease, WHOOPDIDOO!! so can every other character, ganon just kills them in 4-5 hits (2 for pichu ) he's that strong
-ganon's uair is an amazing move as ganon NEVER wants to be above an opponent, dair is strong but it is not disjointed and is semi-slow, meaning that the opponent will usually hit ganon before dair hits them
-ganon's reverse uair hits below the ledge if spaced right and semi-spikes, marth's recovery isn't good (pretty easy to edgehog and punish when marth lands on the stage) so this is another advantage for ganon, not only can he overload marth with power but he can gimp marth better than most characters can
-the only stage that really affects this match-up a lot is FD as ganon's uair loses a lot of it's effectiveness (as it's great with platforms)
-marth is easy to juggle, no he will not get hit for 80% juggles like ganon can but he still is easy to get a 2-3 hit juggle on at most %s, what makes it worse for marth is that he's easily juggled into KO moves, being comboed doesn't always mean how easily a character is 0-death'd

marth jigglypuff is close to even, i always felt that marth had the advantage because of fair having more reach than jigg's bair but m2k knows his stuff (or m2k could just be bad against jigglypuffs with marth, either way, it's m2k)

jiggs aerial mobility is incredible (like wario in brawl, it's a reason both characters are among the top group), she can weave in and out of opponents reaches with no problem and punish ANY lag their attacks have
her bair also has a good disjointed hitbox on it and jiggs priority is very good
jiggs edgegaurding ability is amazing (probably tops in the game), she can bair/fair the opponent to any point
having rest at her disposle makes her somewhat lacking KO power incredible, rest has invincibility frames to even punish attacks better, also being a 1 frame start-up move gives her some options that can lead into rest that are unavoidable (utlit to rest on most characters)

marth's main KO move is fsmash, it KOs at decent %s but it has a lot of lag and usually needs to be juggled into, against jiggs this isn't possible at reliable KO percents because of her lack of weight and falling speed, so you say what about utilt? remember jiggs is weaving in and out of her opponent's range, almost always horizontally making utilt not as reliable of a choice (and it usually doesn't KO until 130% on jiggs i think)

so really sveet, most of us don't know who you are and you're trying to bring yourself out as some great player but have nothing to back it up, please read what other people are posting as it can help you understand the game outside of your area better so you don't post so foolishly putting a bad image on yourself

 

[adumbrodeus]

We can't talk about characters played perfectly... but we can easily talk about them played at the top of the metagame (which is played perfectly accounting for human limitations, ex. nobody can react faster then 8 frames). Once you incorporate that, the pieces fall into place, and you can discuss match-ups in terms of CHARACTERS as opposed to players.

Many moves on many characters have disjointed hitboxes.

The idea of a disjointed hitbox as something unique to Marth and other characters with weapons is completely outdated based off modern smash knowledge and what we now know (God bless AR) but since the bulk of the community is completely aware of how this game functions mechanically, the term was never updated or really given any serious revision.

Mass opinion go go go.

We were talking about things in terms of "disjointedness" (how much of a hitbox does not have a hurtbox), prior to when Brawl came out, and most of the community is STILL unaware of this? Dear god.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Well if you'll heard of me does that mean i'm good? All hail the pichu pro.

 

[mood4food77]

what i'm saying is sveet could be a good player in his area but his name doesn't travel too far out of his area unlike players like m2k, mango, etc who pretty much every serious smash player knows of those players

 

[Pink Reaper]

We were talking about things in terms of "disjointedness" (how much of a hitbox does not have a hurtbox), prior to when Brawl came out, and most of the community is STILL unaware of this? Dear god.

Hey, at least we know what auto canceling is.


IT'S WHEN THE MOVE ENDS BEFORE YOU LAND RIGHT?LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[TheManaLord]

hell yeah I love this thread

Zelda >m2

what do think m2k?

 

[.Marik]

Sveet be stepping up those trolling skills.

Insane Carzy Guy says the most uncomfortable and random things, I swear.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I mess with people really bad, today I saw a buddy and simplely followed them into their classroom and scaried the S*** out of them and nearly got kicked in the nuts.

What's so uncomfortable about my posts sir? I'm not talking about peeling a monkey am I?

 

[.Marik]

No, but you're making a very bizarre analogy of how red Ganondorf players remind you of being ***** as a child, and you seem to feel the tendency to share that news with the rest of SmashBoards.

Keep that shit to yourself bro.

 

[X1-12]

so really sveet, most of us don't know who you are and you're trying to bring yourself out as some great player but have nothing to back it up

oh and don't act as if you know when you don't.. you just come across someone who does know what they're talking about and then you're in that difficult position where you have to stick to your guns, and just try to battle it out that you're right (as you are doing now) or try to twist what you said do it looks like you were right all along (which you did a few pages back with the marth/ganon thing)

 

[KAOSTAR]

hell yeah I love this thread

Zelda >m2

what do think m2k?

I thought we were on a temporary truce lol.
Ill take this argument to the depths of the earth, to hell and back, to the east coast son and hella far back to the west.

He should agree with taj vman or myself, if he knows whats good for him lol.

ICG-I hope you were not ***** by a red ganon as a small child.

@sveet-Troll more dude lmao.

 

[.Marik]

No, he said he was actually ***** as a small child, and red Ganondorf's somehow remind him of it.

He's mentioned it in other places as well, not just here.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ICG how was VGBootCamp #2? Did you make it out of pools?

 

[KAOSTAR]

That sucks bro, getting ***** at anything is no fun.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Hey, at least we know what auto canceling is.


IT'S WHEN THE MOVE ENDS BEFORE YOU LAND RIGHT?LOLOLOLOLOL

It's just disillusioning, I used to think the melee community was a lot smarter then the brawl community... turns out they're about as smart.


I died a little inside when I figured that out.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Actually it's a good thing. A large reason that a good portion of the community doesnt know is cus they're relatively new. We're still getting new players so they still have to learn alot of older concepts. It happens.

Does the brawl community still not know what auto canceling is?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

nope I lost but I got a lot better and laughed till i cried when m2k was sheik chain throwning me for 15 minutes but i hate him for the fact I was going to take a stock up of him as gannon and I used my up-B tricks to get a random up-smash and he quit becuase he didn't want to lose a stock to a pichu.

marth vs pichu isn't as hard as I thought and I think I have some good idea for him and sheik to get a free grab and make them look dumb.

I don't really care what people think of me so I tell tell them the truth about anything but one thing that isn't gross, bad, or even weird.

well at least melee players know about wavedashing but really I'm sorry to disappoint you

 

[Charlesz]

are you kidding me?

 

[Xianglian]

You live in Buffalo? Come to the Rochester tournament this weekend. Other ppl from bufallo are!


EDIT: a technically perfect fox would be above all others. ridiculous combos. would never get grabbed or hit. awesome laser camping (ridiculous amounts of percent from lasers). but it's a dumb discussion and perfection is circular so many people will bring it up its a crap discussion

My best friend is bluepeachy100, i play with him everyday. We have no ride, and i cannot compete at a professional level yet (my marth is solid, but not good)

 

[Nø Ca$h]

playing perfect is a synonym to playing predictable

 

[Xianglian]

playing perfect is a synonym to playing predictable

 

[KirbyKaze]

Well if the opponent could do **** about what you're doing then I guess that would be a problem but if you're doing everything right and making all the right moves (ie. playing perfectly), they probably don't have that luxury. Unless you're a bad character or something.

 

[KAOSTAR]

perfect m2 is good 2 lol.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Really if everyone could powersheild(other than shine and rest of course) every attack and did they could still be beaten. They could be forced in the air, you could grab or force them to approach or maybe space way to good where you looks like you hit them and the sheild and you f-smash by the time they drop their sheild.

Also if fox JC shined him (pretending he could powersheild them all) fox could easily just JC shine him off the map it would be slow and uber techical but wouldn't be punished.

Maybe even sheild stab them if they are G&W or something.

I feel nothing is ipossible in melee or really anything in gameplay is really broken other than non-ice climber chain throws because you can add least SDi out of theirs unlike any other's chain throws. But no john, I just laugh and counter pick ice climbers