Official MBR Tier List

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I would have to argee with m2k other than jigglypuff is even with marth no I marth marth wins at least a little bit. 5th means peach moves down and jigglypuff moves up. but right now i,m thinking the list should be

Really I don't even know what the list should look like at this point but there needs to be change marth isn't that high anymore and jiggly isn't that low anymore. gannon could rise kirby should drop down a lot falco's lasers are losing value due to easy powersheilding, grabs aren't common, I mean dude I can't see why they won't change it there have been many new things come into gameplay like more powershielding, more ways to rest(jab reset), a NEW useful TECH, new people rising up more people reping some people and other less, and on top of this the reason it isn't changing is because there aren't any changes.

but marth is the best at edge gaurd, when he gets a grab it can easily mean stock or a lot of damge, the range is impossible for some to deal with, is really speedy with a really good dd and wd and he isn't limit to want air or just ground approach like many people.

 

[Ryan-K]

stuff

if it weren't for your name you woulda been laughed out of this thread a long time ago.

 

[x After Dawn x]

if it weren't for your name you woulda been laughed out of this thread a long time ago.

um no?

like a LOT of people are starting to think that the order should be Fox > Falco > Sheik > Marth. He has a good point, and pretty much everything he said was valid, although Jiggs is probably not better than Marth.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

M2K you lose to a falcon and say the matchup is in his favor. Lmao.

Marth has a favorable or even matchups with every character in the game except sheik. His only even matchups are space animals.

 

[Zephynazo]

Puff is not better than Marth.

Falcon is not in favor of the Marth cs C.Falcon math-up. It's even, and according to Ken, Marth is in favor.

Marth vs Space animals is even though.

And Sheik is better than Marth.

 

[LAX_]

yeah so if only 1 top/high tier is better than marth, how is marth only 4th on the list (plus marth's disadvantage character isn't played much at all...)?

point being is that its stupid to even try and order the top tier.

 

[Virusbluemage]

yeah so if only 1 top/high tier is better than marth, how is marth only 4th on the list (plus marth's disadvantage character isn't played much at all...)?

point being is that its stupid to even try and order the top tier.

I don't think it's stupid to try an order the top tier, hence no one is question that Fox should remain above Shiek.

And people over rated Marth simply because of the amazing gimps and combos they've seen Ken and mew2king do. But they are able to do that not because of how great the character is; it's because of how great of a plater they are. Mew2king ***** spacies because he is much better than the opponents he is playing, when he is a playing a spacie who is equal or a bit below him in skill he typically loses(Zhu for example); and you may notice that no other Marth player is ****** spacies. I think Falco should be moved right behind Fox and Marth should be moved below Shiek and Puff should be moved Above Falcon and Ganon should be moved above Samus

Edit: Insane Crazyguy please stop being stupid. Kirby < Pichu and you loving Pichu doesn't change that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

virusbluemage you have no idea what you are talking about, stfu. Most people post wrong things about 1/post. Your last post was ~3/sentence.

 

[Comrade]

Let's not get angry about this. Be civil people. Post only info that you feel is true, don't just throw out random thoughts.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Um yeah that's what I said pichu>kirby lol and don't call m2k a plater. ever

A;so lets pull out the famous pichu vs sheik match-up if the pichu is better than the sheik does this mean that pichu should win? silly virus a lot of it's based on who you pick

 

[CaptainEvilStomper9]

vbm your dumb zhu beat m2k once, m2k beat him more. You can't name a spacie that consistently beats m2k besides mango.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

some of these matchups are soo stage dependent that ya'll should not speak in absolutes without caveats Like CF and Marth is in CF favor by a considerable margin IMO on Dreamland and FD, but in marths favor on the other neuts.

 

[Renth]

Virus is an annoying troll that was recently banned for his stupidity, either ignore him or have him ruin threads your choice.

 

[JPOBS]

CCing is like good DI so it's not about being predictable. It can be done on extremely short notice. And everyone knows they are going to be hit before they get hit or good DI wouldn't be possible.

In general, to counter the argument of "be less predictable", the point i'd make is that marth and lower tiers in general are inherently more predictable characters. A general point about high level play is that getting grabs is HARD bc good players don't get grabbed much. So a character that is overly reliant on grab without as many options for getting those grabs is at a disadvantage. I think this also largely speaks to why Falco and Puff are doing so well is bc they don't need grabs to beat you. Then the fact that their grabs are secondary concerns opens up grabs for them, making them even better.

Vs Marth everyone knows he not only wants, but needs to grab you. So they focus on not getting grabbed.

Besides all of this nonsense is the fact that Marth is placing significantly lower than other characters in major tournaments, so you can really type up all you want to theorize how marth is amazing but the results just say otherwise.

This post was amazing and i commend it for being so.

 

[Rappster]

Insane Crazyguy please stop being stupid. Kirby < Pichu and you loving Pichu doesn't change that.

VBM > math

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

To true to true. Also i > -23

But yeah have foxes and other people just camping the holy crap out marth or just started being smarter than the marths? I don't know marth's range, speed, edge gaurd, and etc. right really good but somehow it isn't enough but yeah this isn't super theory bros is it.

 

[Virusbluemage]

vbm your dumb zhu beat m2k once, m2k beat him more. You can't name a spacie that consistently beats m2k besides mango.

If Zhu played M2k again I'd bet moeny he'd win. And the reason we can't name spacies who consistently beat Mew2king is becasue he's better than all the spacy mains, my whole point was that people see Mew2king ****** people and they say Marth is amazing. It has nothing to do with Marth, it's just the person using him. Other Marths couldn't do what M2k does.

And people please ignore Renth, I'm not trolling. Renth is a ******* who likes to spam threads, you can look up his posts if you don't believe me.

 

[Renth]

If Zhu played M2k again I'd bet moeny he'd win. And the reason we can't name spacies who consistently beat Mew2king is becasue he's better than all the spacy mains, my whole point was that people see Mew2king ****** people and they say Marth is amazing. It has nothing to do with Marth, it's just the person using him. Other Marths couldn't do what M2k does.

And people please ignore Renth, I'm not trolling. Renth is a ******* who likes to spam threads, you can look up his posts if you don't believe me.

yep, I love to do just that almost as much as you do. You flood threads with nonsense and do nothing but irritate everyone with the worst logic and horrible opinions that are laughable. telling people to ignore me doesn't work that way like it does for me people actually know who I am. People know you has that annoying guy who spams and thinks he's good but he's a roy main who almost beat hbk once.

 

[null55]

apparently you forgot you said this bro:

Virus is an annoying troll that was recently banned for his stupidity, either ignore him or have him ruin threads your choice.

lol virus is such a good troll.

 

[otg]

apparently You Forgot You Said This Bro:





Lol Virus Is Such A Good Troll.

Its Super Effective

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

at least ICG is a nice guy with bad opinions/logic. VBM is always offensive and ignorant in his posts.

 

[x After Dawn x]

offensive like me? haha

 

[Juggleguy]

Puff is not better than Marth.

Falcon is not in favor of the Marth cs C.Falcon math-up. It's even, and according to Ken, Marth is in favor.

Marth vs Space animals is even though.

And Sheik is better than Marth.

So wrong, lol. Ken himself said that the matchup is 60-40 in favor of Falcon during commentary of an MLG match that is posted on youtube.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'll go on record and say that the match-up is even. On FD or DL its in CF's favor slightly, and on any other [neutral] stage its in marth's favor slightly.

 

[otg]

I'll go on record and say that the match-up is even. On FD or DL its in CF's favor slightly, and on any other [neutral] stage its in marth's favor slightly.

What about stadium?

 

[x After Dawn x]

^ yeah I was just about to ask that. ^

platforms are nice, but there are only two of them and falcon has a lot of room to run around.

 

[Virusbluemage]

yep, I love to do just that almost as much as you do. You flood threads with nonsense and do nothing but irritate everyone with the worst logic and horrible opinions that are laughable. telling people to ignore me doesn't work that way like it does for me people actually know who I am. People know you has that annoying guy who spams and thinks he's good but he's a roy main who almost beat hbk once.

Whatever, I'm not a troll and if you keep on saying I am then I will report you. Also I'm not a Roy main, quit listening to third hand information and learn the facts.

at least ICG is a nice guy with bad opinions/logic. VBM is always offensive and ignorant in his posts.

This just isn't true at all. I'm usually very nice and civil, I only become offensive when people offend me first. Maybe you should get to know me before making these wild assumptions about me.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

VBM i have read every post in melee discussion and the popular characters's forums for the last ~6 months. I've seen a lot of your posts and lots of your youtube comments. You usually start out with a random ignorant post like "Ken is better than mango" and then get flamed by random fanboys. Instead of leaving it there you come back with more ignorant things and add in offensive ****.

Grow up already. Stay civil, even if you're being offended. You aren't a troll, you're perfect troll fodder.

 

[Tyserification]

So this is where VBM has been. This guy's posts are friggin hilarious.

*waits for him to get banned again

 

[TresChikon]

^ yeah I was just about to ask that. ^

platforms are nice, but there are only two of them and falcon has a lot of room to run around.

I feel Marth can use the platforms in PS to control the stage much better than on DL and FD. It's good, but not good as those other two stages.

Unless, of course, it's on the mountain transformation. We all know what that should mean for dear ol' CapFal.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Wow, Renth is like, such a ****. He's insulting VirusBlueMage JUST because he's constantly being ******** and incorrect and inflammatory and gay(possibly bi? more at 11:00) I think we should all add Renth to our ignore lists so we don't have to see his rude rude posts.


In other news, this is the first time I've posted here in a while. I'd just like to say, I personally am against changes in the Melee Tier list. Characters and character match ups haven't actually changed much in the last few years. While the skill levels of certain players have definitely made a drastic increase the characters themselves are still being played almost exactly the same as they always have been. Arguments for or against characters moving really don't hold much weight any more as there's a far smaller amount of top level players to really show what characters can do. Especially in the Marth/Peach and to some degree even Fox. Certain characters, like Falco and Jiggs are far more prominent today, something that could be attributed to the LACK of marth, and it causes a skew in results. Idk, just some thoughts.

 

[Lovage]

i'd say that lots of character matchups are being played DRASTICALLY differently from when this dumb "final" tier list was made

i'd like to hear an experienced, successful player try to make the claim that the tier list isn't outdated

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

yeah. out of sheild game has gotten a lot better since this tier list was made.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

What about stadium?

its about even but i'd say its in favor of marth. on FD and DL falcon is in almost no danger from marth's grab until ~50%, while on PS marth can dthrow tech chase to a platform and put you onto it then combo from there.

on the stage in neutral position, CF has a slight advantage. He has the speed to dodge marth's sword effectively while still being able to punish. Marth has to take control of the stage and push falcon to the edge to stop him from being able to run away, and once he does its pretty much a stock.

Falcon has to try to get past you to get more room, which basically means jumping over you or rolling past you or attacking you. The first two options are significantly better on FD and DL than other neutrals, which is the real reason they are his best stages in the match-up. Obviously attacking marth isn't usually a safe option, but you have to do it eventually

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

i think the PS transformations help Falcon thought cuz marth loses those gay *** perfect platforms and Falcon has better mobility to maneuver the transformations

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

quite the contrary, most of the transformations cut down falcon's mobility as long as you dont fall for the (overused) sideb wall cancel. I think the windmill transformation is pretty good for falcon and pretty bad for marth.


edit to reply to lovage:

i'd say that lots of character matchups are being played DRASTICALLY differently from when this dumb "final" tier list was made

i'd like to hear an experienced, successful player try to make the claim that the tier list isn't outdated

How are they played differently? What new strategies (not tricks) have surfaced since october of last year? Doesn't fox still laser/dd camp->punish approach? doesn't falco still laser camp->punish approach?

I know i've gotten a lot better in the last year, but the game on the highest level hasn't changed much. Actually a lot of the strategies are the same since 06, but with better tech skill and consistancy.

 

[Mew2King]

i think id beat zhu the majority. Johns or not I was really off in our genesis set. I think Marth vs Falco is fairly even depending on stage, if not falco win cuz he's a far less limited character.

Jiggs is definitely broken idk why you guys are being delusional thinking marth is better than her. Maybe if this game was based on all neutrals that could be a possible argument, but not with the all the gay stages allowed right now.

Even hbox said he thinks jiggs is 2nd best character after fox the WEEK BEFORE he won Rom2, but I mean don't trust top jiggs or marth player's opinions or anything, let's just go by voting like we always do that will be accurate >_>

and falcon ***** marth. I'll MM any marth 100 bux w/ falcon 3/5. I won't even camp.

 

[Lordydennek]

So will Puff be top tier soon? I dont like that idea. Ive often thought that sheik is actually tied with marth for second place. or maybe better. She can kill anything anytime anywhere. Cept peach on mute city. BAN THAT STAGE

 

[Mew2King]

do ppl even know what puff is capable of?

She can back throw almost any character at 0% then edge hog rest or 1 bair then edge hog rest and THAT CHARACTER DIES AT ZERO

up tilt rest kills at almost 0 (it ACTUALLY does kill Sheik at 0% at the edge of pokemon stadium with GOOD DI)

uair rest kills at a BUNCH of %ages like 15-50 or something idk (just educated guess). Otherwise if they DI in you can just do fair fair fair or bair bair bair.

You can up throw rest and this kills Fox in the center of FD at 11%. So one bair and then up throw rest and Fox is DEAD.

If they decide to DI the up throw rest you can get either a 1) pound to rest (unless they DI the pound in or 2) if you think they will DI the pound in, just use your other option and Fair to regrab. 50/50 chance you get a follow up, and the pound-> rest guarantees death so you basically get a free regrab.

You either DI her Fairs/Bairs in and get comboed, or DI away and get edge guarded

Full jump fair fox at like 40-70% and then jab -> rest him because they will probably miss the tech

after 70% just SH nair and then Fox will fall over for you to tech chase him with a dash attack or F smash (or even jab to rest if you want to). You can even jump nair out of shield and they will almost always miss the tech then you can jab -> rest them.

Down throw combos to rest at basically every single % from 0 to 100+. Do this at the edge and all they can do to avoid it is DI away OFF THE STAGE where they will just be edge guarded by Fairs.

She gimps you anywhere at any %, and she doesn't get comboed herself, and she doesn't get edge guarded. She is probably the best character in the game, and that is overlooking all the auto-win stages she can counterpick

 

[Lordydennek]

Then why is Mango the only one that is THAT good with her? An average puff almost always loses to an average marth.