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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List
- Thread starter Slhoka
- Start date
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I thought that you could space a fair around her bair. Guess not. 
(I didn't know f-smash worked in that MU though, thanks!)
It's such a grueling MU for both sides, I think (cause Peach can trade aerials sometimes, which is bad for Jiggs), but bair ends everything. Hmmm...she's got so many annoying matchups, doesn't she? (except for Falco).
(I didn't know f-smash worked in that MU though, thanks!)It's such a grueling MU for both sides, I think (cause Peach can trade aerials sometimes, which is bad for Jiggs), but bair ends everything. Hmmm...she's got so many annoying matchups, doesn't she? (except for Falco).
Mew2King
King of the Mews
the dumb thing about puff is, while she may not be as offensively good as most other top tiers, you can't really ****/punish her much. You can get 1-2 hits, almost no combos on her, and edge guarding her isn't possible. You also can't gimp her, but she can gimp you. That's what could make her possibly the best. She can also plank the 3 fast fallers once she gets a % or stock lead, and have a good MU advantage from that point onward. Oh but I guess no one would believe this since no good puff will use it so it is pointless to say that.
As far as Falco I think he could be the best too, but not head to head vs Peach. Vs all of the other top that aren't peach and jiggs (Fox, Sheik, Marth, also Falcon), Falco can pretty much combo them to death or almost death (and when not doing that, he puts them in a horrible position after a long combo, such as at the edge/ledge). Being able to do that is ridiculous, because once you learn how it becomes really hard for them unless falco messes up. Marth especially has an easier time with good foxes than good falcos cuz Fox is more limited to 1) approaches and 2) long combos. Falco wins in both categories in this MU and it's very annoying when the falco knows what they are doing. Most risk/reward scenarios are very much falco's favor because marth gets comboed so hard when he guesses wrong. If not for that the MU would be no trouble, but after a point in high level play it's starting to come down to hope they mess up or guess right. With Fox, Marth has a much easier time getting a first hit in thanks to moves like Fair/Uair and easier dash dance grab. Also he can approach easier.*
*this does not apply if a controller's R button enables perfect power shielding easily (very few do honestly and yes it does matter).
As far as Falco I think he could be the best too, but not head to head vs Peach. Vs all of the other top that aren't peach and jiggs (Fox, Sheik, Marth, also Falcon), Falco can pretty much combo them to death or almost death (and when not doing that, he puts them in a horrible position after a long combo, such as at the edge/ledge). Being able to do that is ridiculous, because once you learn how it becomes really hard for them unless falco messes up. Marth especially has an easier time with good foxes than good falcos cuz Fox is more limited to 1) approaches and 2) long combos. Falco wins in both categories in this MU and it's very annoying when the falco knows what they are doing. Most risk/reward scenarios are very much falco's favor because marth gets comboed so hard when he guesses wrong. If not for that the MU would be no trouble, but after a point in high level play it's starting to come down to hope they mess up or guess right. With Fox, Marth has a much easier time getting a first hit in thanks to moves like Fair/Uair and easier dash dance grab. Also he can approach easier.*
*this does not apply if a controller's R button enables perfect power shielding easily (very few do honestly and yes it does matter).
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You should learn Jiggs between now and RoM (or Apex, if you wish), and prove to us that this planking strat is legitimate (at least in friendlies/pools). Not that I don't believe you necessarily, but I know that I'd rather see it, first (and people are probably a bit irate with you for mentioning it all the time).
Mew2King
King of the Mews
Yeah I know but the problem is my Jiggs is much worse than my mains, and I would not use her in tourney unless it was PAL probably. No confidence in myself with her. Also honestly my jiggs was a lot better a year and a half / 2 years ago than it is right now. I barely play this game anymore but I go on smashboards every day still usually (nothing else to do)
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
If you come back to Aus again sometime, I'll let you jab me to get the lead and then plank as Puff in a MM.
Strife
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2011
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- 784
I hope people are taking note of this. Armada agrees that Marth vs Peach isn't bad at all, and I'm pretty sure M2k would say the same thing. This notion that Marth is a hard counter is a relic from the past, it hasn't been true in our metagame for quite a while now.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I don't agree Puff is the best..!? while you yourself beat the best Jiggs with a low tier? Cmon... lol. If Puff was the best, he should technically have no bad matchups but apparently some obscure characters can beat her. I mean basically almost all good/decent characters can do really well vs her too... if not has the advantage. With your logic, you won an international tournament so Peach is the best now? Jiggs is not even winning anymore since I know some people are actually doing something about it and figuring out the holes in Jiggs play.. she has obvious weaknesses.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I'm so tired of this.
How is this his logic? At all?
Tier lists should be based off two sets between differently skilled players.
People discovering flaws in Hungrybox's style =/=Jiggs' play.
Name a character other than Fox with the advantage. You may have to provide reasoning this time though, so be careful.
Winston
Smash Master
Being disadvantaged to Fox is a big strike against being The Best Character.
-ShadowPhoenix-
Smash Bash
damn kage get your facts straight
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Jiggs is a girl though.
-ShadowPhoenix-
Smash Bash
... i know.... but you put he... my point
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I guess I can slip up at times.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I think Jiggs is third. I'm just playing devil's advocate and showing Kage's ******** logic.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Of course, i never even mentioned Hbox, I'm talking about Jiggs in general.. if Jiggs was truly the best then she would win hell of a lot more than right now. And if only one player can do really well with her right now then that's even more reason that she's not the best. The rest of the Jiggs can only go so far.
For some reason I feel that Jiggs goes through more uphill battles than any other character because these days a lot of people found ways to escape combos and rests.. (Combination of SDI, CC.. etc.) with that said it definitely hurts her in a long run. I mean she clearly doesn't have really **** matchups across the board so it can be really hard... I feel that from this point on, she should get more destroyed than before.
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Actually, Jigglypuff vs most mental states is a solid 90:10. She owns psychologically.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
That makes me wonder about that.. I feel that it's the other way around for some reason, can't really know why exactly but.. Jiggs really has to work to get in on some characters, if she can't then.. you know, it's the jiggs that will break down.. I feel like Jiggs requires a certain way of thinking that's unlike other characters. Like a failed rest = BREAKDOWN!!! lol.Actually, Jigglypuff vs most mental states is a solid 90:10. She owns psychologically.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
oh Kage
Jiggs doesn't think
She just bairs
Jiggs doesn't think
She just bairs
Divinokage
Smash Legend
lol, if only it were that easy. =P I also think people judge things by what they see and not what's actually going on in matches. lol.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Puff rewards you immensely for out-thinking the opponent more than any other character, except maybe Ice Climbers (depends on the ruleset).
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I think that for Jigglypuff, it can go both ways. You can be doing really, really well, and then she stops your momentum, and then suddenly, you're at a roadblock. You just got rested, and stocks are even. Or even worse, you got rested and missed the punish. Now you're down a stock, and she's waving around in the air happily like nothing happened. That's a huge mental block.
At the same time, missing a rest can screw you over for that match, as well. Now you're down a stock cause you got punished (assuming you aren't fighting a Peach, lol), and now you have to figure out how to get that stock back, cause Fox is camping you, and you're maybe five more lasers away from another death. I suppose everyone deals with that to some extent, but Jigglypuff has such a quick and easy panic button, and I feel like that makes her more desperate in those situations (like Peach's down smash, in the sense that it's so good that you can't help but want to use it in as many situations as you can). Still though, coming back against Jigglypuff is more difficult because of that OHKO. "What if I mess up and get rested again?"
At the same time, missing a rest can screw you over for that match, as well. Now you're down a stock cause you got punished (assuming you aren't fighting a Peach, lol), and now you have to figure out how to get that stock back, cause Fox is camping you, and you're maybe five more lasers away from another death. I suppose everyone deals with that to some extent, but Jigglypuff has such a quick and easy panic button, and I feel like that makes her more desperate in those situations (like Peach's down smash, in the sense that it's so good that you can't help but want to use it in as many situations as you can). Still though, coming back against Jigglypuff is more difficult because of that OHKO. "What if I mess up and get rested again?"
Stevo
Smash Champion
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think the way to beat Puff is to exert pressure on her until she pops. With a surprisingly high amount of characters.
But that's crazy talk so I'll resume my normal role of being the crotchety old goon that lives with the crazy cat woman.
But that's crazy talk so I'll resume my normal role of being the crotchety old goon that lives with the crazy cat woman.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Hmm well that is only assuming you read the opponent with Rest, I mean that isn't going to happen all the time.
Well with Ganon, it's a lot more a spacing battle and eating the space between you and Jiggs, it's not really so much pressure but more like pressure to make her believe you'll attack but you attack at different times to throw her off. Which is why it seems like only a Bair wall from Jiggs or wtv but in reality, it's both characters trying to get in on each other. So idk.. Don't diss catgirls! Grrr. =P
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It's hard to say, because sometimes I don't think that camping her is as effective as we would like to think, but then...Armada proved otherwise...
Then again, you don't specify whether it's offensive pressure or defensive pressure. Can I assume you mean offensive?
Then again, you don't specify whether it's offensive pressure or defensive pressure. Can I assume you mean offensive?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Oh, true. Darn, I've been had.
See, I was thinking her uair, up tilt, ridiculous b-throw game, shield game (rest oos is crazy good), dodge game, and other nonsense like that were also good tools for setting up beastly punishes but evidently I'm wrong.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
id agree w/ 55 marth vs peach, 60 on YS
reliable KOs are the main reason. You may get tippers some stocks (but 7good players, if they block an F smash, a good peach can just nair you OOS right after then throw turnips after) but if you even have 1 stock where you struggle to get a kill you probably won't get it till like 170 (when tipper fair kills), or 200 from up throw.
reliable KOs are the main reason. You may get tippers some stocks (but 7good players, if they block an F smash, a good peach can just nair you OOS right after then throw turnips after) but if you even have 1 stock where you struggle to get a kill you probably won't get it till like 170 (when tipper fair kills), or 200 from up throw.
Winston
Smash Master
Is this supposed to mean something other than what it literally states? (That Puff and ICs have the highest reward punishes off of a read)
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
You were talking about Hbox and the fact he's not currently winning major tournaments, don't pretend otherwise. Jiggs not winning a lot is because Jiggs is hard and boring, not a good combination to be a popular character choice. But, if we humor your logic, then shouldn't Fox be way down on the list too? What solo Fox players have been winning a lot? This bearing in mind Fox is used infinitely more than Jiggs too.
Jiggs' combo game isn't nearly explored enough and even with the pre-existing ones I'm not sure what you're referring to. Jiggs' isn't even a combo focused character. As with regards to the "**** matchups", answer my question. Who else beats Jiggs other than Fox, with reasoning pl0x.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
That is to be taken literally; I think they do. Ice Climbers need wobbling on to be up there.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Smother them with cotton candy!
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well the goal is to hit her, but you can't simply throw a move out there, you really have to stay put and watch carefully, the matchup Ganon/Jiggs is very defensive on both sides. Just think like an MMA fight or Fencing, you try to punch but then he dodges backwards, then he might try something then you have to back away too. I mean it's like a tug of war too. Though I don't really know if I can consider this offensive or defensive, it's weird lol.
I just think it's overrated, yes it's very good but I mean there are ways to escape because if no one would be able to do anything about it then of course she should be much better than she is. Sorry but I just can't see it... like the consistency level of her punishes just isn't there, you know what I mean?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
How dare you insinuate her b-throw is anything but fantabulous!
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I will.....
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Roneblaster
Smash Hero
U know how i know jiggs isnt the best character?
Because Falco is the best character.
Because Falco is the best character.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
ftf yU know how i know jiggs isnt the best character?
Because Fox is the best character.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Really? Do I really need to mention all the awesome Foxes out there for you?
And about Jiggs, of course she's hard, that's exactly why you won't see her win much at all. If she's so good then why doesn't more people play her? Or is she not as good people make her out to be? I think it's the latter.
I think Falco beats her, I think Falcon beats her too.. I used to think Ganon beat her too but it's a bit Jiggs advantage due to better setups in general and easy edgeguarding... though it's still really close. As for reasonings for other characters I can't really say since I have no XP but at least I won't go off saying my opinions on things based on what I only saw.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
What does ftfy mean?
Fifty cent?
Fifty cent?