Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Max?]

My game vs. PP at apex was pretty close. And I always make it close whenever I play Dart

Dude, all your post are like "i ALMOST beat so and so, but still got 2-0".

Good ****

 

[knightpraetor]

vs pp's falco or his marth?

 

[Purpletuce]

The thing I hate most in this game (my own fault for picking Yoshi) is whenever I lose to someone I'm better than/isn't even trying to play the MU properly. Falco is silly. . . I feel you SB

I feel like being able to say "I almost beat <insert player here>" is too easy to do. Depending on how the match was played and the context, it can have a large range of relation between the two players, and it is hard to tell how much. If I say I almost beat Player #1, I feel like it makes the claim that I think I'm on or approaching their level of play, and only losing by a small margin. The catch is, it seems that it is far too easy to be in that area, because unless the other player is substantially better, then it isn't too hard to come close (especially if you play a character that trades/spaces). The claim can be made equally for players on your level, and players significantly better than you. For example, I've had close matches against a player(players unnamed for simplicity) that we will call player A, but he definitely beats me, who has close matches with player B but player B definitely beats him. Player B has close matches with player C, but player C definitely beats him. I still have close matches with player C. So if I were to describe my relationship with player C, it would make me sound like I'm possibly as good as player B, even though they are better. When I say I almost beat someone, you can't tell if there is one level of play between us, or 5.

That is my noob opinion. Crushing my own optimism toward how good I am at this game . . . >.<

 

[Ripple]

Dude, all your post are like "i ALMOST beat so and so, but still got 2-0".

Good ****

my past 2 posts where I mention losing to someone were relevant to what we were talking about.

vs pp's falco or his marth?

I'm going to let you guess.

 

[Max?]

Ripple I see you all over the place talking about your set with Hbox and what not. No one cares, DK sucks, etc

 

[Ripple]

I'm sorry I take pride in mentioning that I took the second/third best player in the nation down to last stock last hit....with DK

also, Like I said, it was RELEVANT to what we were talking about. DK vs. puff

 

[unknown522]

YES! YES! MORE! MORE!

 

[The Star King]

unknown522 is just awful. I mean, just look at those random numbers at the end of his username. Only morons do that.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

 

[Max?]

YES! YES! MORE! MORE!

I am feeding the beast right now

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Coming close to beating someone doesn't mean anything
Scaring someone into thinking that they could lose, on the other hand...

 

[Divinokage]

SB, i take my xp from watching pkm either **** Bam or me at times against many matchups. If he's able to do that then DK's potential is higher than you think it is. Already if he's able to do that then it means from a player's standpoint that at least this character can be played even better.. You pride yourselves on DK when in reality, you 2 are still using too many basic tactics in order to win matches. Sorry but you are not there yet!

Even if there's a lot of Falcos, results arent the total truth behind things.

 

[Max?]

SB, i take my xp from watching pkm either **** Bam or me at times against many matchups. If he's able to do that then DK's potential is higher than you think it is. Already if he's able to do that then it means from a player's standpoint that at least this character can be played even better.. You pride yourselves on DK when in reality, you 2 are still using too many basic tactics in order to win matches. Sorry but you are not there yet!

Even if there's a lot of Falcos, results arent the total truth behind things.

A few things come into play here.

1. Strongbad is up and coming, he needs more time before he gets to a level where he ***** everyone.
2. PKM has a ton of experience, has traveled a lot, and most likely plays/has played against you and Bam a lot. He's very comfortable vs. your guys styles, so even tho Falco vs. DK is a 90-10 matchup, he can keep up with Bam.
3. DK vs. Ganon is pretty close to even as it is, so you might be skewed in your analysis.


All in all, Strongbads analysis is accurate, tho admittedly a little biased. A great DK can keep up with people despite how hard it is. I've watched Phish-it beat Tec0, get Eggm and Stric9 down to last stock last hit game 3 in multiple sets etc, etc etc.

DK is still *** tho. Terrible shield, fat, linear, no real CC game, no projectile, gets ***** when he facing his opponent, I could go on.

 

[ShroudedOne]

A few things come into play here.

1. Strongbad is up and coming, he needs more time before he gets to a level where he ***** everyone.
2. PKM has a ton of experience, has traveled a lot, and most likely plays/has played against you and Bam a lot. He's very comfortable vs. your guys styles, so even tho Falco vs. DK is a 90-10 matchup, he can keep up with Bam.
3. DK vs. Ganon is pretty close to even as it is, so you might be skewed in your analysis.


All in all, Strongbads analysis is accurate, tho admittedly a little biased. A great DK can keep up with people despite how hard it is. I've watched Phish-it beat Tec0, get Eggm and Stric9 down to last stock last hit game 3 in multiple sets etc, etc etc.

DK is still *** tho. Terrible shield, fat, linear, no real CC game, no projectile, gets ***** when he facing his opponent, I could go on.

I have a huge grin on my face right now.

 

[Lovage]

phish it's the best DK the rest of u are clowns

 

[Zoler]

Please stop discuss DK, he's trash

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

God the current list sucks.

Can I just make my own list to replace this one?

I'm sure more people will agree with it.

 

[Divinokage]

A few things come into play here.

1. Strongbad is up and coming, he needs more time before he gets to a level where he ***** everyone.
2. PKM has a ton of experience, has traveled a lot, and most likely plays/has played against you and Bam a lot. He's very comfortable vs. your guys styles, so even tho Falco vs. DK is a 90-10 matchup, he can keep up with Bam.
3. DK vs. Ganon is pretty close to even as it is, so you might be skewed in your analysis.


All in all, Strongbads analysis is accurate, tho admittedly a little biased. A great DK can keep up with people despite how hard it is. I've watched Phish-it beat Tec0, get Eggm and Stric9 down to last stock last hit game 3 in multiple sets etc, etc etc.

DK is still *** tho. Terrible shield, fat, linear, no real CC game, no projectile, gets ***** when he facing his opponent, I could go on.

As for number 3, I really dont just play Ganon. >_< I play multiple characters now and I am pretty comfortable with a few of them.. Bam also plays a lot of character when we play friendlies, I try to base this on a lot of what we did, not just specifics. I mean in countless hours we played together, I sure as hell can analyze the difference and what can happen despite knowing our styles. I mean the general situations that can happen and also some new mixups i havent seen yet at times.

 

[Purpletuce]

You play multiple characters? As you are the premier gannon, I base high level gannon play off of you, and can't really appreciate your true play style (I don't know what is Kage things and what is Gannon things), I would like to see some of Kage's non-gannon. Also, I like hearing some about DK, it is interesting and I'm learning about a character I knew (relatively nothing in terms of high level discussion) little about.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

purpletuce i despise you.

 

[Pink Reaper]

See what happens when you spell ganon with too many N's? Cash Mooney starts hating you.

The more you know

*rainbow*

 

[Divinokage]

You play multiple characters? As you are the premier gannon, I base high level gannon play off of you, and can't really appreciate your true play style (I don't know what is Kage things and what is Gannon things), I would like to see some of Kage's non-gannon. Also, I like hearing some about DK, it is interesting and I'm learning about a character I knew (relatively nothing in terms of high level discussion) little about.

That's why Ill slowly show them in tournament. It's a lot of unusual decisions and reaction/instinct from experience. And also, defense means nothing.

 

[The Star King]

purpletuce i despise you.

See what happens when you spell ganon with too many N's? Cash Mooney starts hating you.

The more you know

*rainbow*

http://gannon-banned.com/

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

You play multiple characters? As you are the premier gannon, I base high level gannon play off of you, and can't really appreciate your true play style (I don't know what is Kage things and what is Gannon things), I would like to see some of Kage's non-gannon. Also, I like hearing some about DK, it is interesting and I'm learning about a character I knew (relatively nothing in terms of high level discussion) little about.

Agh My EYES!

 

[Purpletuce]

Why doesn't anyone like my opinion of Ganonn? Oh well, I don't like the idea of having to go based on a mix of unusual decisions and playing from experience, seems quite awkward and hard to improve with. I guess that's why I don't play Gannnon.

 

[Divinokage]

Quite the opposite, being unique is how you become a top player. If you do what everyone else does then you cant really surpass them. Playing from xp means you know everything about what works and what doesn't. So then you can set appropriate traps in what you think will work.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Why doesn't anyone like my opinion of Ganonn? Oh well, I don't like the idea of having to go based on a mix of unusual decisions and playing from experience, seems quite awkward and hard to improve with. I guess that's why I don't play Gannnon.

Ganon. Say it with me now. Ganon. One N. Ganon. Not two N's, one N. Ganon.

This lesson costs you one cookie.

 

[john!]

Why doesn't anyone like my opinion of Ganonn? Oh well, I don't like the idea of having to go based on a mix of unusual decisions and playing from experience, seems quite awkward and hard to improve with. I guess that's why I don't play Gannnon.

even purpletuce trolls from time to time...

 

[Divinokage]

These people should feel bad for trolling, idiots!

 

[Purpletuce]

First misspelling was from drunk posting. Second one was because so many people freaked out over something so mundane as a misspelling. I work at a bakery over the summer, if you come to my work, I will pay you one cookie, BlackGold.

When I think playing unusual(not unique) I think of impractical things that work. Ex: Last night I was being an *** and used invincibility frames to rest someone out of FireFox(bad player who charged it right below ledge) even though it wasn't practical it worked. I do recognize the value of unique play, but I define unusual as different from unique. Also, playing from experience can both mean what you said, as well as 'knowing what works' when it doesn't work. From playing against bads, I might have recognized that Fox/Falco D-throw-> Shine/smash/whatever works, but if I take that to higher levels of play, they will tech it, making the throw less useful, and making me get less out of my grab because of my experience. I don't like the idea of playing from experience. . .

Edit: I guess I do it for the majority of game play anyway, just smaller things I don't think about. Ex: don't JC my grab(Yoshi's running grab > standing grab(same with Samus)), or don't jab reset people at high %.

 

[Divinokage]

Well then if they start doing different options then you can cover them by choosing different options to attack, it differs from player to player but at least it's easy to adapt when you know what the player is looking for or what his habits are. Sometimes, I dont even need that I just react to visual cues 80% of the time.

No tech --- > move punish
Tech in place ---> then I can stand there and grab I guess or just throw a move in their face preemptively
Tech away or inside ---> running grab or techchase with a move.

If they wait with no tech then it's important not to be erratic and wait because the opponent will have to do something eventually. =P

All of this for me is almost automatic reactions.

 

[Habefiet]

Don't have a lot to see about the preceding dialogue except that Kage is right about no-techs and not just throwing out moves and whatnot.

Habefiet AKA Vanilla Bryce PRESENTS

The Vanilla Tier List

S Tier AKA Oh, God, oh God, oh my God, oh, oh no, oh God Tier

1. Falco
2. Fox

Too ****ing good. They have everything. They have everything and do each part of everything better than everyone else in virtually all cases. I see no reason not to separate them from the rest when they're clearly better than everyone else.

Why Falco above Fox? Depends on how you prioritize the MU's. IMO Falco does better versus fastfallers, Fox does better versus floaties, and the rest of the matchups are sort of a hodgepodge. Beating fastfallers > beating floaties.

A Tier AKA Mad Good Tier

3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon

Obviously the only really jarring part of this is bumping Puff down a few spots, which some people don't agree with, but seriously, what other top tier has that much trouble with random lower characters (YL ain't the only one). Yeah, she has really high punishment potential, but most of her staple kills are heavily reliant on the opponent making a mistake or on hard reads. Between random bad MUs and such heavy reliance on opponent error, I just don't see it.

B Tier AKA Solid Tier

8. Ice Climbers
9. Samus

Samus, ninth, B tier, my opinion, she does at least passably well versus most relevant characters (certainly no worse versus any top tier than, say, IC's versus Peach or Peach versus Puff), has ridiculous recovery shenanigans, bizarre movement and combos that always catch people by surprise.

C Tier AKA Liquid Tier

10. Doc
11. Pikachu
12. Ganondorf
13. Luigi
14. Mario
15. Young Link

Ganon is not like Jigglypuff, but that being said, they have one similar problem: they need opponent error or hard reads to get punishes despite high punishment potential. Combine that with free combos on him and a bum recovery, and it's ugly. Young Link moves up because he's got some neat little tricksies v. floaties. Recent developments with Young Link were not actually the spark for this line of thought, but they affirmed some of my beliefs.

D Tier AKA Gas Tier

16. Link
17. Donkey Kong
18. Yoshi
19. Zelda
20. Mewtwo
21. Game & Watch

Donkey Kong is really, really bad. I have never understood his rating on this tier list, ever, and if everyone in the world really thinks he belongs where he's at, help me out, I don't get it at all. He has a very limited number of viable options, a very limited amount of ways to limit his opponent's options, crap recovery, crap approach, virtually everybody combos him for free, a couple top tiers can stuff him without even needing to look at the screen for half the match, etc. Considered putting him below Yoshi.

E Tier AKA *** Tier

22. Roy
23. Ness
24. Pichu
25. Kirby
26. Bowser

Roy sucks. Bowser sucks hardest.

That's just me blabbering. But I suck harder than Bowser. So take it with multiple grains of salt.

TCB, I'd be interested in seeing your tier list if you really disagree heavily with this one, I tend to like your posts.

 

[odinNJ]

marth is bad.
marth is bad.
marth is bad.
jiggs is good.
kirby sucks hardest

 

[ShroudedOne]

Kirby is better than Pichu, I think. Maybe he's better than Ness.

Puff is a weirdo, but she's really good at...something.

If Marth is bad, I shudder to think about what characters in this game are actually good. :\

 

[Blistering Speed]

Ripple I see you all over the place talking about your set with Hbox and what not. No one cares, DK sucks, etc

You are so ****ing annoying.

Kirby is better than Pichu, I think. Maybe he's better than Ness.

Pichu is better than Kirby, if only because his relatively superior movement enables him to somewhat contend with some fundamental algorithmic camping strategies. Kirby has no response whatsoever in those situations.

Pichu / Ness
Kirby
Bowser

 

[DerfMidWest]

Why in the world would shiek not be s-tier?

She's definitely closer to the space animals than the other characters.
There is a gap between marth/puff/peach and sheik/spacey

 

[Habefiet]

Why in the world would shiek not be s-tier?

She's definitely closer to the space animals than the other characters.
There is a gap between marth/puff/peach and sheik/spacey

My whole rationale for that:

Sheik actually has a few difficult match-ups (IC's / Puff). Spacies don't.

 

[past_b]

Why in the world would shiek not be s-tier?

She's definitely closer to the space animals than the other characters.
There is a gap between marth/puff/peach and sheik/spacey

Yes. I agree. I've actually been saying that sheik could even be second on the tier list but obviously I'm probably the only one who thinks that.

 

[Habefiet]

Which space animal do you think she potentially belongs above, and why? What makes her better than Fox or Falco, and what makes her worse than the other one? I am curious.

 

[past_b]

I think I wrote a brief reason as to why I thought that sheik could be greater than falco like ten pages back. I'll try to find it and maybe expound on that past post of mine.