Stevo
Smash Champion
double jump, Roy Fire up-b, ANOTHER stock gone, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Rage quit
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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List
- Thread starter Slhoka
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
Around where is Murdering Bidoofs, MD? If it's near me (unlikely; I see very few Bidoof corpses), we should play. If not, you should go to Sypher's this Saturday. Also, don't listen to these chumps. Roy has a hot new combo video.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,559
Double jump, Downb, ANOTHER DOUBLE JUMP, ARE YOU SERIOUS
Bones0
Smash Legend
They should do that in P:M. Just think of the mindgames of countering people going off-stage to edgeguard you.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Roy can steal Kirby's down-B. Or at least that's what it looks like when he tries to recover.
LMAO. No, roys worst aspect isn't his recovery, it's the fact that he gives Basically negative hitstun, sometimes, roy hitting an opponent is a combo starter for his opponent. Ah god he's so bad, I can't even make sarcastic comments he's so bad
D
Deleted member
Guest
you can do a lot worse than roy
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,559
It's a reference to the Ganondorf copypasta on GameFAQs.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I never said it was his worst aspect... I agree that not being able to knock people over without grabbing is probably his worst aspect. rofl
I know. I'm the one who posted it a couple pages back. lol
Mew2King
King of the Mews
i agree roy should be higher the fire element and power is a good argument
he also has a fire affinity http://fireemblemwiki.org/Roy
he also has a fire affinity http://fireemblemwiki.org/Roy
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Who cares about Roy.. I, myself, have the darkness affinity... Having real powers is much much better than fictional BS.
>who cares about roy
please.. fire marth is the HOTTEST topic on the boards right now. I MEAN, PEEPUL ARE TALKING ABOUT iT ON THE TIER LIST THREAD SO IT MUST BE IMPORTANT RIGHT GUYS.
but seriously, sword of seals > triforce of power
please.. fire marth is the HOTTEST topic on the boards right now. I MEAN, PEEPUL ARE TALKING ABOUT iT ON THE TIER LIST THREAD SO IT MUST BE IMPORTANT RIGHT GUYS.
but seriously, sword of seals > triforce of power
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Who said anything about triforce of power, it's not real!
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
The tierlist thread is a silly place
LALALALA I can't hear you
Bones0
Smash Legend
ITT: Kage is salty that he can't beat PP's Roy.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
It should be the other way around but I guess some people don't even want to believe what they see with their eyes and then convinces themselves that things like that aren't possible...
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Roy's sword can slay demon dragons, but hits like paper in the face of a homanoid fox with boots and a laser that splashes you.
Wake
Smash Master
And don't forget some of his worst MUs are against a Princess and two ****** people.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm feeling the mid tiers.
Samus > Ganon > Luigi > Mario > Pika
But they're all really close in power IMO
Samus has the most gayness aside from Pika but she doesn't get chain grabbed by ICs or Sheik. She's better than Ganon vs FFers. She sucks vs Sheik. Marth is manageable, she's less prone to dying for no reason than Luigi and Ganon, and Mario is just really average. I think she's the best of this group because she's good at keeping the match as a poking game and her WD back is really good, her shield is good, etc. I can't make up my mind about her edgeguarding. I feel there's potential in the beam but I might be tripping balls. I don't think she's as bad vs Puff as everyone says but I don't think it's good for her either (losing MU, maybe 6-4?).
Ganon sucks but doing 15%+ with knockdown on everything except jab at 5%+ is good. His first hit game blows and it's all gimmicks. But his gimmicks can 0-death you for no reason or make up huge ground so it's better than Mario. Sheik and Fox roflstomp him. I think Falco does too unless you're Linguini so if you're one person it's a 4-6 MU or 5-5 MU instead of 3-7. Since most Ganons aren't Linguini, I feel it's usually going to be a 3-7 MU. He's combo food for everyone and has real way to interact with a ton of movement strats except by throwing moves around, which makes him easy to lame out. He's like ICs but without the odd stage control, mobility, & combat restrictions they impose by being a pair.
Luigi is like Ganon in that he's got mostly gimmicks but I think wish space he has a good WD approach and he has better normals overall. I think he might have untapped potential but unlocking it would require Luigis play less gimmicky so we're not gonna see it for a while. Better normals than Mario, a janky WD that imposes weird stage presence, and kill aerials are why he's above him. That's basically it. I think Mario might be better because d-throw and less janky jump game but I'm not sure. I'm never 100% one way or the other on the Mario bros.
Mario is well rounded.
Pikachu is also well rounded but doesn't have Mario's d-throw. Axe is really good. I don't think the character divisions in this ground are by much at all. I feel he only has range on one move but I'm not gonna say much more because Axe tends to make me bite my tongue when I do so. He's okay vs FFes relative to the rest of this group aside from maybe Samus but he's also the worst vs Peach of the bunch IMO and has an awkwardly hard time with ICs and some other dumb characters (Samus has this problem to [Link beats her IMO] but it's not as severe). I think that these things drop his placement despite being good vs FFers but it's just IMO. Being okay vs the FFers is worth a lot so maybe I'm just undervaluing it.
I think they're all about equally bad vs Sheik. Mario and Ganon might be the least bad because of CGs. Mario also doesn't get ***** comboed or ***** by poor position like the others do but he gets range-gayed instead. So there's no winning it. Sheik, destroyer of mid tiers.
I have no idea what Pika Fox is. And I think Fox ***** the rest of them pretty handily minus Samus, which I don't know. Duck beat my Fox pretty easily. And he beat Unknown. But I think my strategy was okay and I was getting the hang of executing it; but ultimately Samus is lame and friendlies don't matter. Sigh. Thank god I'm a Sheik main. I think Fox Samus is probably 55-45 Fox or so but you can't play a fun style (lasers, grabs, and bairs are the staples) unless you're good at dash shielding into misspaced, punishable defense moves (or it's FD).
DK and Link can be argued to be part of this tier group if you catch me at an optimistic moment. I love Link. DK sucks but u-throw uair is better than most characters below him so maybe he should be up there.
Samus > Ganon > Luigi > Mario > Pika
But they're all really close in power IMO
Samus has the most gayness aside from Pika but she doesn't get chain grabbed by ICs or Sheik. She's better than Ganon vs FFers. She sucks vs Sheik. Marth is manageable, she's less prone to dying for no reason than Luigi and Ganon, and Mario is just really average. I think she's the best of this group because she's good at keeping the match as a poking game and her WD back is really good, her shield is good, etc. I can't make up my mind about her edgeguarding. I feel there's potential in the beam but I might be tripping balls. I don't think she's as bad vs Puff as everyone says but I don't think it's good for her either (losing MU, maybe 6-4?).
Ganon sucks but doing 15%+ with knockdown on everything except jab at 5%+ is good. His first hit game blows and it's all gimmicks. But his gimmicks can 0-death you for no reason or make up huge ground so it's better than Mario. Sheik and Fox roflstomp him. I think Falco does too unless you're Linguini so if you're one person it's a 4-6 MU or 5-5 MU instead of 3-7. Since most Ganons aren't Linguini, I feel it's usually going to be a 3-7 MU. He's combo food for everyone and has real way to interact with a ton of movement strats except by throwing moves around, which makes him easy to lame out. He's like ICs but without the odd stage control, mobility, & combat restrictions they impose by being a pair.
Luigi is like Ganon in that he's got mostly gimmicks but I think wish space he has a good WD approach and he has better normals overall. I think he might have untapped potential but unlocking it would require Luigis play less gimmicky so we're not gonna see it for a while. Better normals than Mario, a janky WD that imposes weird stage presence, and kill aerials are why he's above him. That's basically it. I think Mario might be better because d-throw and less janky jump game but I'm not sure. I'm never 100% one way or the other on the Mario bros.
Mario is well rounded.
Pikachu is also well rounded but doesn't have Mario's d-throw. Axe is really good. I don't think the character divisions in this ground are by much at all. I feel he only has range on one move but I'm not gonna say much more because Axe tends to make me bite my tongue when I do so. He's okay vs FFes relative to the rest of this group aside from maybe Samus but he's also the worst vs Peach of the bunch IMO and has an awkwardly hard time with ICs and some other dumb characters (Samus has this problem to [Link beats her IMO] but it's not as severe). I think that these things drop his placement despite being good vs FFers but it's just IMO. Being okay vs the FFers is worth a lot so maybe I'm just undervaluing it.
I think they're all about equally bad vs Sheik. Mario and Ganon might be the least bad because of CGs. Mario also doesn't get ***** comboed or ***** by poor position like the others do but he gets range-gayed instead. So there's no winning it. Sheik, destroyer of mid tiers.
I have no idea what Pika Fox is. And I think Fox ***** the rest of them pretty handily minus Samus, which I don't know. Duck beat my Fox pretty easily. And he beat Unknown. But I think my strategy was okay and I was getting the hang of executing it; but ultimately Samus is lame and friendlies don't matter. Sigh. Thank god I'm a Sheik main. I think Fox Samus is probably 55-45 Fox or so but you can't play a fun style (lasers, grabs, and bairs are the staples) unless you're good at dash shielding into misspaced, punishable defense moves (or it's FD).
DK and Link can be argued to be part of this tier group if you catch me at an optimistic moment. I love Link. DK sucks but u-throw uair is better than most characters below him so maybe he should be up there.
i agree that ganon is gimmicky but to a point so is luigi and spamus. The main difference is that luigi has actual methods of hitting you without you messing up. I personally think that the samus ganon luigi area is really even, REALLY even, almost to equalness. whereas pika and mario are one step below. also dk is not even close. backair spam only works for one top tier XD XD XD
Bones0
Smash Legend
KK, talk about what makes a character gimmicky or not. Is a character gimmicky when their strategies rely on tricking the opponent? How is that different from top tiers that have to trick each other with DDWD bluffs, feints, etc?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Luigi's gimmicky because they try stupid **** like random misfire or FJ aerial > falling nair approach or shield grab when it's never going to work because of how the character is designed. But then people run into or mistime against it because who actually understands Luigi?
Ganon's answer to things is usually to throw moves at it. That's not bluffing or whatever you said. That's flailing. He's committing because there's not much else you can do. Understanding this principle shrinks Ganon's real game against you drastically. Linguini tried to play around this by emphasizing his waveland movement and fast moves. It worked to a point but the strategy has exploitable weaknesses.
So basically gimmicky is, "Exploitable, obvious weaknesses but gets away with it anyway." Y'know... a gimmick.
How much lag something has and how many options you have out of it (commitment issues) are a big factor in determining whether something is gimmicky or not.
Ganon's answer to things is usually to throw moves at it. That's not bluffing or whatever you said. That's flailing. He's committing because there's not much else you can do. Understanding this principle shrinks Ganon's real game against you drastically. Linguini tried to play around this by emphasizing his waveland movement and fast moves. It worked to a point but the strategy has exploitable weaknesses.
So basically gimmicky is, "Exploitable, obvious weaknesses but gets away with it anyway." Y'know... a gimmick.
How much lag something has and how many options you have out of it (commitment issues) are a big factor in determining whether something is gimmicky or not.
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
i love gimmicks.
RFrizzle
Smash Ace
What do you guys think about pikachu v. Falcon?
Max?
Smash Champion
Luigi is ****ing ****. I'm really considering maining him or at least using him as a secondary for certain matchups, but it's hard to justify switching off Doc. His offense and combo game is so lethal vs. everyone in the cast, and unlike his brother and the other mid tiers, he doesn't need to land a grab to start punishing people. His recovery and defense options are kinda meh, but all in all he's a beast and def has a ton of untapped potential
D
Deleted member
Guest
tbh i think that goes for both luigi and doc.
that said your skill with one will probably transfer nicely to the other so you should try him anyway
that said your skill with one will probably transfer nicely to the other so you should try him anyway
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Level dependent to at least some degree. I think it's even overall but obviously Pika's ******** CG on FD is a big deal. Pikachu is frail though vs knee despite his good recovery.What do you guys think about pikachu v. Falcon?
I agree for the most part. He has combos and his combo starter isn't grab or <move> into grab so he's got some versatility with his attack selection that some characters lack.
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- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,559
DK is really bad.
Max?
Smash Champion
It's true. It's still hard to justify using Luigi vs certain characters, especially Falco
Also, I disagree with the notion that Doc's combo game is good vs. everyone. He relies on grabs a lot to get things started, and that can be very challenging vs. good opponents. A ton of Luigi's moveset launches and combos into one another, plus he has fast and solid aerial KO moves. They aren't as good as Doc fair, but they are way faster, can set up edgeguards/advantageous situations or just flat out KO.
D
Deleted member
Guest
i meant about the untapped potential part. iirc jacob has some pretty sick stage control with luigi and it seems to be working out well for him.
Stevo
Smash Champion
this ^
and so is Link. They are both nowhere as good as the other characters being currently discussed.
I'm on the fence about Young Link though. He could be at like... Pika level on the tier list. (probably not though, he doesn't have a real grab game)
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Apparently, im the only one who can play pkm and say that DK is underrated. It happened a lot that I still get my *** kicked at times, DK is just super terrible vs Falco and maybe Sheik.. other than that his other matchups arent that bad at all. Unfortunately, there is no one in tournament that can show something like this.