Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[RFrizzle]

Oh **** callout
Also Falcon is a **** mu for dk

 

[Stevo]

he is terrible against fox too. and still loses to Characters like Ganon and Marth. Even mario and Doc actually. He is much better than most of the characters below him on the tier list though.

PKM is good at DK, and I'm sure he has improved since the last time I played him, which was years ago lol. We had a couple DK dittos and Roy dittos, which was fun. PKM was one of my favorite smashers to play with because he played so many characters. Too bad Canada is so big though.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Didn't know we had some DK experts in the thread now.

loool falcon bad for DK.

 

[Divinokage]

he is terrible against fox too. and still loses to Characters like Ganon and Marth. Even mario and Doc actually. He is much better than most of the characters below him on the tier list though.

PKM is good at DK, and I'm sure he has improved since the last time I played him, which was years ago lol. We had a couple DK dittos and Roy dittos, which was fun. PKM was one of my favorite smashers to play with because he played so many characters. Too bad Canada is so big though.

He barely loses to those characters, that's why I said he's kinda underrated, a lot of his losing MUs aren't even 6-4 but more like 55-45 at worst.. which is why he can deal with most matchups. He has only 2-3 really one sided matchups.

As for being a DK expert, I play vs the best one right now a lot of the times.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I personally don't see what DK does against Peach. And I think the unwinnable MU vs Falco (be honest with yourselves about this, DK has to play perfectly through the entire match from what I can tell), and the super bad vs Sheik...ehh.

Just because DK has a strong punishment game vs Falcon, that doesn't automatically make it "not that bad." What does DK do to Falcon in neutral? (sort of asking for elaborations, rather than just "this character isn't thaaat bad)

But in the end, what do I reaaally know about DK? Someone teach me.

 

[Bones0]

I personally don't see what DK does against Peach. And I think the unwinnable MU vs Falco (be honest with yourselves about this, DK has to play perfectly through the entire match from what I can tell), and the super bad vs Sheik...ehh.

Just because DK has a strong punishment game vs Falcon, that doesn't automatically make it "not that bad." What does DK do to Falcon in neutral? (sort of asking for elaborations, rather than just "this character isn't thaaat bad)

But in the end, what do I reaaally know about DK? Someone teach me.

1. Bair.
2. Cargo uthrow -> uair.
3. Step 2 is optional.

 

[Ripple]

questions about DK should be answered by either me or strong bad, the only 2 DKs who are actually on the boards and play at a high level (for DK).

DK vs. Falco is pretty much impossible. Falco doesn't need to use anything except for laser and grab because DK can't do anything when facing forward against him. falco then throws DK up, what can DK do? nothing in any situation.

the only reason DK should ever win is if he goes to FD against falco and gets some hard reads to grab.

DK vs. fox is really hard but doable. probably 65-35. he just can't spam grabs.


sheik i find much easier than the other top tiers. mostly because she's not as hard to grab/attack and cargo up-throw at 60% leads into punch for guaranteed kills.

Puff is also easy. I had hbox in my pool for FC and I almost beat him game 1 and game 2 was a 2 stock high %.

peach is fine also but I'm not that experienced in it. DK can move around peach really well and is one of the few MUs in which his fair is actually a useful spacing tool.

I can't comment on Falcon because I'm terrible at that MU and got wrecked by Hax. Strong bad is MUCH more experienced in the MU because he plays Darkrain often

 

[Divinokage]

Up-B or Fsmash edgeguard.. You can also dair techchase to usmash reliably. You can cargo combo uair to Fair or Bair too. Also easy giant punch combos, he can actually do that to a lot of the casts too which is pretty strong. Ftilt is a little underused too, it goes super far.

Falcon is still probably easier than Fox I'd say or as hard.

 

[Stevo]

I mean this with no offense to Ripple or Strong Bad, but if a top player either plays with a good DK or plays as the character for a while, I think they also will have a credible opinion on the character, regardless of them not being a DK main.

I'm not sure if any top players even DO play DK on the side... but I still would value their opinion.... probably as much as Ripple or Strong bad's.


as for Cargo combos. Yes, they are amazing. Try getting those grabs on a consistent basis though.

 

[Purpletuce]

Ripple. . . do you think you're the best at every character? >.<

Why does everyone need to think they're an expert on everything.

My objective opinion on DK advice: mid/high level DK mains > people who mess around with him/people who have played against him/people who have watched him/people who have a 2nd cousin who used to play DK decently 3 years ago and they watched him once.

 

[Ripple]

Ripple. . . do you think you're the best at every character? >.<

only DK and roy

 

[Stevo]

I would trust a high level non-DK main over a mid level DK main to be honest lol. (Assuming said player does actually play DK sometimes)

Though the definitions of mid level player and high level player are kind of blurry.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I think the only necessary DK info is that DK/Roy on FD is 110/-10 in DK's Favor. If you play this match as roy there's a 10% chance you'll actually lose 2 matches.

 

[Ripple]

I think the only necessary DK info is that DK/Roy on FD is 110/-10 in DK's Favor. If you play this match as roy there's a 10% chance you'll actually lose 2 matches.

I don't know where this MU number came from and I don't know why I see people post this all the time when people mention roy's bad MUs but I can assure that it is not even close to as bad as samus/peach/ICs

 

[Divinokage]

Ripple. . . do you think you're the best at every character? >.<

Why does everyone need to think they're an expert on everything.

My objective opinion on DK advice: mid/high level DK mains > people who mess around with him/people who have played against him/people who have watched him/people who have a 2nd cousin who used to play DK decently 3 years ago and they watched him once.

Not everyone says the most accurate things but at least having played this game for 6 years competitive, I can say Im an adept at it.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know where this MU number came from and I don't know why I see people post this all the time when people mention roy's bad MUs but I can assure that it is not even close to as bad as samus/peach/ICs

i would much rather fight samus than DK with roy. samus is **** tier as soon as she jumps, DK can legit just hold up on battlefield and not die for 4 minutes if he lets you hit him.

 

[Ripple]

you shouldn't even be trying to kill DK off the top. I don't think you know as mich about roy as you think you do

 

[Twinkles]

I believe he means that if you try to kill DK off the side, DK just DIs up and survives to ridiculously high percents

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Not experienced or anything, but I've always felt like DK is semi-good, but he's one of the characters that I could actually see a metagame cap simply because he's so......predictable? I mean he has solid combos with cargo throws and what-not but it just seems like theres no more juice to him other than spacing really well. I guess almost no one playing him could also be a factor at how crap he is, but still it seems like he's a really simple character from the get-go in terms of combo, approach, etc.

Anybody wanna fill me in?

 

[The Star King]

I don't think you know as mich about roy as you think you do

lol, replace "roy" with "Melee" and this is a universally applicable response to Umbreon's posts

 

[Battlecow]

lol, replace "roy" with "Melee" and this is a universally applicable response to Umbreon's posts

brofist. Right here.

 

[Deleted member]

twinkles got it right.

and yeah, the stuff that applies to roy applies to the rest of the game too for the most part. learn to play ssbm

 

[KirbyKaze]

Not experienced or anything, but I've always felt like DK is semi-good, but he's one of the characters that I could actually see a metagame cap simply because he's so......predictable? I mean he has solid combos with cargo throws and what-not but it just seems like theres no more juice to him other than spacing really well. I guess almost no one playing him could also be a factor at how crap he is, but still it seems like he's a really simple character from the get-go in terms of combo, approach, etc.

Anybody wanna fill me in?

He's a 4 move character with a good combo in him.

That's about it.

 

[Strong Badam]

Didn't know we had some DK experts in the thread now.

loool falcon bad for DK.

Falcon's actually really hard for DK, if the Falcon is good and playing the match-up correctly. It looks a lot better than it actually is because the vast majority of Falcons are either 1. really bad or 2. realize that DD camping against a character that relies a lot on DD camping with a character that's better than him at DD camping basically auto-wins, but decide not to do it for whatever reason.
I feel like Darkrain's beatable when he's approaching, but when he stops sandbagging and just DD camps (making Falcon then a strictly better DK that gets combo'd a little harder), it feels impossible. So 65-35 Falcon. Hax plays the match-up really well, but I don't think there are recent recorded vids of a DK player playing well against him (I bombed at FC against him lol).

He barely loses to those characters, that's why I said he's kinda underrated, a lot of his losing MUs aren't even 6-4 but more like 55-45 at worst.. which is why he can deal with most matchups. He has only 2-3 really one sided matchups.

This is way too optimistic. Where did you get this? Watching tournament sets? In tournament you might find an effective ratio to be 55-45 against DK (which is still exaggerated really far), but this is after considering the fact that your opponent has approximately 0 experience against a good DK (because let's face it, there are less than like 10 tournament threats that actually know how to fight DK). In actuality he loses to Fox, Marth, Falcon, Peach, etc. so badly that those characters can play the match-up completely wrong and still win. Then the tournament sets look closer than the match-up really is, then people post here in the tier list thread "Oh hey guys look DK's not as terrible as we thought he was," except he is.

But okay, Kage. I'll humor you. Let's assume you're right, and his non-Falco/Sheik match-ups are actually only 55-45 in the higher-tiered character's favor (which they aren't). Let's also remember that a tier listing is based on how well the character, by itself, can perform in a tournament setting.
Now... do you realize how bad the Falco-DK match-up is? Like... I'm not even sure there's a comparable match-up between any other two characters within the set of characters DK and above on the tier list. If Puff vs. Peach is impossible for Peach, then this match-up is impossible³ for DK. It's almost as if when they were designing Falco, they wanted to pull a terrible prank on the future mains of a randomly selected character, by designing Falco entirely around defeating that character. And that randomly chosen character was DK.
As many of you know, DK's most obvious weakness at high level play is his lack of a forward-facing approach option, or more specifically options, as mixups are important. One of his greatest assets is his back-air, leading many better DK players to play with their back to their opponent the majority of the time. Bair combos into grab, deals damage, can force a knockdown for a tech-chase opportunity.,. it does everything you'd want for an aerial.
Now, for whatever reason, the game designers decided that Falco should have a projectile that allows him to turn his opponent around, and be able to fire this circa 3 times per second, and it's unclankable. DK's entire character has now been defeated. Then you consider that DK's combo'd nearly as hard as Falcon is. And that his recovery is almost entirely horizontal. Oh right, this is against the character with a spike that starts frame 5 and goes for 20 frames (1/3rd of a second)... yeah. You get the picture. 75-25 in Falco's favor.

Then you consider that Falco is one of the most popular characters in the game at a competitive level. Your odds of running into this unwinnable match-up in tournament are exceedingly high, and only increase as you progress through pools and finally bracket if you're lucky enough to not have fought a mid-high level Falco already and lost because the match-up is unwinnable. DK's chances aren't looking too good, now, are they? Even if DK went completely even with Peach, Marth, Falcon, and maybe even Fox, he wouldn't be much higher on the tier list, because of how relevant and common his unwinnable match-ups are.

So in conclusion DK seems to do better than he actually should sometimes because DK players are actually good and their opponents don't know what they're doing.

Good to hear PKM is still playing, btw. Is he gonna go to any US tourneys, you think?

 

[Twinkles]

That was some of the best DK knowledge I've ever seen dropped.

It was like a really good movie, I laughed and cried somewhere down the line.

 

[RFrizzle]

SB droppin' knowledge backin up ya noy oh lawdy

 

[choknater]

i learned how to camp with ice climbers and defeating mexican became easy

he says 'i almost beat chudat'

but everybody knows chudat wavedashes forward against every character when he doesn't need to

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

lol SB tell us how you really feel

That read like years of pent up frustration cried out in paragraph form

I feels you brah, i feels yah

Spoiler

should have mentioned DK's ****ty shield/powershield tho

 

[Strong Badam]

Marth is a great character though.

If I went on about all of the things that suck about DK I'd be here for like 3 days straight, and I don't really like complaining about my character because it doesn't really help me get better. Just wanted to point out that DK is, in fact, terrible during this discussion where "underrated" was used in the same sentence as DK.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Strong Bad with that knowledge.

Just going to repeat that there's no way DK is going up on the tier list with the existence of the bird.

 

[Stevo]

DK Stuff

That was a pretty good post. Falco vs DK is painful. I especially like the part about how high tiers still beat DK even when they play the matchup WRONG. That's basically how I feel about it.

I remember the days when people used to think DK beat spacies lol. Cause they saw that Captain jack video. I actually played DK back in those days and I could never convince people otherwise, so I stopped trying.

It is so hard to come to a mutual agreement on matchups in melee.

 

[Divinokage]

How is Marth super good vs DK? I know you got ***** by KDJ completely but cmon now.. it's not that bad.

 

[Strong Badam]

Marth is one of DK's better relevant MUs. If you remembered correctly my set with KDJ was a very close 0-2, last hit both games. Again, KDJ was playing the match-up incorrectly... and still won.
If you do not argue properly I'm not going to respond. (False) personal attacks have no place here. Argue actual aspects about Donkey Kong or stop posting.

 

[Ripple]

My game vs. PP at apex was pretty close. And I always make it close whenever I play Dart

 

[Zoler]

The results of a match isn't that relevant if one of the players isn't that good at the matchup and the other one is very used to it.

You can't just factor in skill levels... matchup knowledge is important.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Marth/DK is a really fun matchup to play. An intricate spacing war. DK gets out-damaged because he can't get much more than a single uair off grab at low-mid %s if the Marth knows how to DI, whereas Marth can sword->sword->sword DK's big *** body pretty much forever. DK's OOS options whither against a Marth who has the tech skill to space his pressure, and if Marth forces DK into a corner where he can't dash back and regain his bair positioning, its pretty much gg (similar to Marth/Puff, except DK can't stall near the edge to mitigate some of Marth's corner game....and he doesn't have Puff's roll/crouch).

Bair cuts off Marth's grab approaches superbly well, and DK's range can intercept a lot of Marth's dash aways, so Marth has to be careful with DD grab (though, as always, its still a dominant strategy). DK also has durability, and if the Marth doesn't know how to edgeguard (most don't), he can live to ridiculous %s. Ultimately, I think the best way to play DK in this matchup is actually on platforms; DK's various bair angles can cut through a lot of Marth's sword arcs.

Its solid Marth advantage, particularly because of dtilt, but its not overwhelming. The more Marth knows though, the rougher it gets...

 

[ShroudedOne]

Strong Bad, or Ripple, what do you guys know about DK/Puff? I imagine it's not quite as bad for him?

 

[Ripple]

D-throw, run jump punch.

Bye bye puff



Ill post more later

 

[phish-it]

Jigglypuff is probably the 'best' high tier matchup for DK above Doc. It's a slower paced spacing which fortunately DK actually has some good tools to challenge Jigglypuff in.She's slow moving and without any projectiles, she has a much harder time avoiding retreating b-airs and giant punches on DK's part than most other characters do. If DK can avoid getting rested he lives way longer in the battle of attrition.

Marth is probably the second most manageable matchup in that category. DK can have a hard time getting the first hit on Marth but at the same time Marth can struggle to get kill him in return. Most Marth players don't know the matchup this basically what makes it manageable. Most Marth's usually try going for the kill pre-emptively rather than grabbing more and forcing DK into a position without any options to avoid the kill.

If the Marth is experienced this fight can be extremely lame (then again, that can be said against most matchups). DK is a huge guy with average mobility, he doesn't have good options to avoid getting grabbed, and even though a grab from Marth doesn't guarantee a follow up, it takes away what little options DK does have.

 

[unknown522]

Entertain me more people