Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Habefiet]

I thought he was a truck.

also the whole falco does better against falco than fox does thing is a positivev feedback loop, i dont know the rules reagarding using positive feedback loops in arguments

? No it's not. The argument would be something like this:

Fox-Falco: 45-55 Falco
Falco-Falco: 50-50

Fox loses to Falco 45-55, Falco goes even with Falco 50-50.

That's not a positive feedback loop or circular logic or what-have-you. Falco having a winning matchup with Fox would inherently mean that Falco does better against Falco. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by positive feedback loop, but there's nothing weird about the logic here. It's the same as talking about any other pair of match-ups.

 

[twizzlerj]

I've got so much room for activities

if i was a roy main i would come along and we would have to build a bunk bed

 

[knightpraetor]

yeah i think fox struggles more these days due to his illegit combo game increasing the variance in his matches. I was watching a match where yay (one of PP's friends) smash DIed out of fox's upair with falco and proceded to shine-zero to death the fox and I just thought "if that had worked he would have just won the match"



similar thoughts run through my head everytime peach smash DI's fox's dair and then dsmashes him offstage and kills him.

Honestly fox feels pretty hard for my garbage peach, but I like knowing that as I get better I will smash DI more and more hits into kill moves

 

[KirbyKaze]

You guys focus too much on attacks linking into other attacks and not enough on movement linking into attack

 

[Wake]

Just beat em up.

If they're next to you, beat em up.

If they're far away, run over there, and beat em up.

If they're off stage, go out there and beat em up.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys focus too much on attacks linking into other attacks and not enough on movement linking into attack

good thing falco laser does both!

look at you, talking like a character without a frame 1 invincible down B.

no wonder your outdated ideas got sacked.

we play MELEE, this is a 1.5 character game.

NO JOHNS

/sadly, only half trolling

 

[DerfMidWest]

There are a minimum of 3 characters in this game.

 

[TheLake]

Mario is so handsome

Why cant the tier list be based on appearances alone like the rest of the competitions of the world?

except european soccer that **** is crazy intense!

 

[DerfMidWest]

European soccer is pretty cool.
But some of them get really mad when they lose....

 

[Beat!]

OK

Calling it european football is fine.

Calling it soccer is... acceptable.









... but "european soccer"? Come on.

 

[Habefiet]

The distinction:

European soccer: Played well.
American soccer: ... we're working on it. >.> Still salty about losing to Ghana last World Cup. Again.

I can see why someone from this part of the world would say European soccer to refer specifically to that scene of soccer, because if they said "European football" and then talked about Americans it'd seem confusing, because it wouldn't be clear whether referencing "American football" meant American-what-the-Europeans-call-football or American-football-as-in-NFL-stuff. But if they just said soccer, well, since Americans don't care as much about soccer in general... no okay you're right it's kinda stupid.

Just beat em up.

If they're next to you, beat em up.

If they're far away, run over there, and beat em up.

If they're off stage, go out there and beat em up.

Advancing the metagame one step at a time.

 

[Beat!]

no okay you're right it's kinda stupid.

Ind eed.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Oh i was just differentiating between american soccer and european.

 

[ShroudedOne]

You guys focus too much on attacks linking into other attacks and not enough on movement linking into attack

This.

Just beat em up.

If they're next to you, beat em up.

If they're far away, run over there, and beat em up.

If they're off stage, go out there and beat em up.

Also this.

 

[KirbyKaze]

good thing falco laser does both!

look at you, talking like a character without a frame 1 invincible down B.

no wonder your outdated ideas got sacked.

we play MELEE, this is a 1.5 character game.

NO JOHNS

/sadly, only half trolling

You're so mean to me!

 

[Bones0]

good thing falco laser does both!

look at you, talking like a character without a frame 1 invincible down B.

no wonder your outdated ideas got sacked.

we play MELEE, this is a 1.5 character game.

NO JOHNS

/sadly, only half trolling

Too bad laser only links into other attacks if you let a slow bird jump and land right on top of you.

 

[odinNJ]

@bones

Ftilt.
Especially when Marth is recovering, laser ftilt

 

[DerfMidWest]

Who needs other moves?
Real men do laser -> laser

 

[Deleted member]

Too bad laser only links into other attacks if you let a slow bird jump and land right on top of you.

you're bad.

 

[Bones0]

you're bad.

Go to the College Park tourney this weekend and I'll show you how bad I am.

Spoiler

(No sarcasm.)

 

[Deleted member]

Go to the College Park tourney this weekend and I'll show you how bad I am.

Spoiler

(No sarcasm.)

0% chance. I'll be happy to play you in the near future though. Probably after early November.

edit: what's your game tag? you're ENDR right? were you that random falco that i horribly *** molested with link and luigi at xanadu at the end of last year?

serious question, i don't remember people very well until i've seen them 5 or 6 times, but there was some small event that m2k and cactuar went to so i went to talk to them a while and ended up making a combo video on a falco player with that tag. doesn't necessarily mean it was you though.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Lolololol bones got mad.
<3 bones

 

[Bones0]

0% chance. I'll be happy to play you in the near future though. Probably after early November.

edit: what's your game tag? you're ENDR right? were you that random falco that i horribly *** molested with link and luigi at xanadu at the end of last year?

serious question, i don't remember people very well until i've seen them 5 or 6 times, but there was some small event that m2k and cactuar went to so i went to talk to them a while and ended up making a combo video on a falco player with that tag. doesn't necessarily mean it was you though.

My tag is always ENDR, but it definitely wasn't me, so that's weird. lol Did they play red Falco? And were you talking about a tournament? I haven't been to any Xanadu tournaments yet, only the Tuesday smashfests, and I knew everyone I played at those. I haven't been to any tournaments at all that M2K and Cactuar attended since Zenith (and before that Apex).


Where did I get mad? >_>

 

[Deleted member]

yeah it was a red falco. the luigi match had 3 upthrow > misfires and 1 ledge dash invincible up B for kills. really unnecessary lol

xanadu is pretty sweet.

 

[Bones0]

lol Someone's posing. Hmmmmm...

 

[odinNJ]

I think it might be someone using a tag like ender"s game and just shortened it to endr. Or umbreon is trying desperately to put you down. Idk

 

[Bones0]

I got it from Ender's Game myself, but I think it's more likely someone from MD/VA just decided to put on my tag with red Falco for the lulz. lol

 

[Jockmaster]

Or maybe you have a clone Bones

 

[DerfMidWest]

Red falco is the worst.
He's probably the lowest falco on the tier list.

1. Green Falco
2. Vanilla Falco (basically tied for #1)
3. Blue Falco
4. Red Falco

But you could argue Red > Blue based on westballz's success and blue falco's apparent inability to win in the current metagame (possibley due to under representation)
But both blue and red falco appear to be largely successful at a lower level, if that makes any difference.

 

[john!]

pantsless falco is best falco

 

[Deleted member]

I got it from Ender's Game myself, but I think it's more likely someone from MD/VA just decided to put on my tag with red Falco for the lulz. lol

yeah lol i know a lot of the times when i sit down to a TV i just pick a random tag for entertainment value. although i do it because i saw azen when he used to do it, it's just a fun thing to do.

i only put people down when they have it coming. i'm actually much nicer about it than i used to be. i only told bones he was bad because he said that laser only links under a specific condition when that's not the point of the laser to begin with.

bones has a reputation with some specific knowledgeable people for spreading misinformation in the form of fact. personally i think it's a point of amusement and usually ignore it, but even i'm going to call him out on Falco 101 Theory.

 

[odinNJ]

its really difficult to tell tone on the internet, sorry about that umbreon . also
@bones: enders game == amazing book, if only falcos lasers froze people

 

[Twinkles]

Red falco is the worst.
He's probably the lowest falco on the tier list.

1. Green Falco
2. Vanilla Falco (basically tied for #1)
3. Blue Falco
4. Red Falco

But you could argue Red > Blue based on westballz's success and blue falco's apparent inability to win in the current metagame (possibley due to under representation)
But both blue and red falco appear to be largely successful at a lower level, if that makes any difference.

Have you not seen Mango's blue falco
****ing noob
(lol)

 

[Boat Mode]

Falco is sandbox mode.

 

[Bones0]

yeah lol i know a lot of the times when i sit down to a TV i just pick a random tag for entertainment value. although i do it because i saw azen when he used to do it, it's just a fun thing to do.

i only put people down when they have it coming. i'm actually much nicer about it than i used to be. i only told bones he was bad because he said that laser only links under a specific condition when that's not the point of the laser to begin with.

bones has a reputation with some specific knowledgeable people for spreading misinformation in the form of fact. personally i think it's a point of amusement and usually ignore it, but even i'm going to call him out on Falco 101 Theory.

Laser does only link under fairly specific conditions. Most people (myself included) just suck at acting out of laser stun or shielded lasers properly. I only brought it up because you said lasers let Falco link lasers into both movement and attacks, but I think linking into attacks is the large majority of how you have to play vs. anyone who knows how to deal with lasers properly.

What other supposedly misinformation am I guilty of spreading? I'm ready to be enlightened.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Your analysis of Fox vs. Falcon that didn't take into account Fox's *effective* speed and range.

 

[Bones0]

Just because my analysis didn't encompass every possible factor in a Melee match doesn't mean it's misinformation. If I made the same exact post but instead said I thought Fox won the matchup, not one person would have said anything about it containing misinformation. But just because I disagree with the status quo, suddenly everyone gets to act like I'm an idiot on something that is completely subjective. It's my (brace yourself) opinion, and I never pretended my opinion was law. I welcomed discussion about the matchup and everyone just kept on doing the same **** they always do in this thread. I had no problem with the people who said Fox's moves coming out faster is an advantage that I might not have considered (even though I did, I just didn't include it along with many other factors). But anyone who thinks I said something that is inherently wrong is ********.

 

[Deleted member]

What other supposedly misinformation am I guilty of spreading? I'm ready to be enlightened.

http://www.smashboards.com/search.php?searchid=5414685

again, not necessarily my opinion. i've just heard it basically every day for the past month. from like 20 people.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just because my analysis didn't encompass every possible factor in a Melee match doesn't mean it's misinformation. If I made the same exact post but instead said I thought Fox won the matchup, not one person would have said anything about it containing misinformation. But just because I disagree with the status quo, suddenly everyone gets to act like I'm an idiot on something that is completely subjective. It's my (brace yourself) opinion, and I never pretended my opinion was law. I welcomed discussion about the matchup and everyone just kept on doing the same **** they always do in this thread. I had no problem with the people who said Fox's moves coming out faster is an advantage that I might not have considered (even though I did, I just didn't include it along with many other factors). But anyone who thinks I said something that is inherently wrong is ********.

Touche.

10touches

 

[Bones0]

Can't see what you're linking.

derp