Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[unknown522]

Well even if that's true, it simply reinforces my point -_-

indeed

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wait what.

What similarities in design flaw, strategy, ****ing anything, do Ganon and Sheik have?

 

[KirbyKaze]

D-throw CGs on most of the cast. Good fair, bair, and uair. That's about it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

D-throw CGs on most of the cast.

I find it funny that this covers "design flaw, strategy, and ****ing anything" by itself.

 

[JPOBS]

Yes I agree that Pika is better than Ganon. I think Pika is better than Samus and maybe Doc as well.

Man, pika has got to be the most overrated character in the game. and sure a fuuark aint better than doc.

 

[twizzlerj]

pika better then ganon sure. better then doc i dunno Doc has that thing where he does stuff

 

[Jockmaster]

Man, pika has got to be the most overrated character in the game. and sure a fuuark aint better than doc.

How is Pika overrated? I mean I can understand the argument for Axe as a player to be overrated (though I don't agree), but as a character I don't see how that is.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I don't think I ever said Pika was better than Doc. Doc is clearly better.
He is better than ganon tho.
And proly even with (if not above) samus as well.
Pikachu isn't overrated either... Nobody is saying pika should be top tier lol.
The most overrated character in this game is puff... (imo)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Man, pika has got to be the most overrated character in the game. and sure a fuuark aint better than doc.

We finally rate a character high because it's performing well in tournaments and all you can come up with is, "They're overrated."

Suck my **** JPOBS

 

[Jockmaster]

lol calm down KK all we gotta do is preach the word

 

[Kink-Link5]

The most overrated character in this game is puff... (imo)

Marth and Falcon disagree.

 

[Jockmaster]

Marth and Falcon disagree.

I actually was going to say Falcon and Jiggs, so it looks like we have a little trend here

 

[PGH Carroll]

Keep sleeping on Vudujin. Kid almost JV5d a Ganon in losers final that knocked out both me and silent swag. He's getting more and more nasty.

Marth is the MOST over rated

 

[john!]

roy is the most overrated character

what other character dies in one hit?

 

[Kink-Link5]

roy is the most overrated character

what other character dies in one hit?

:ganonmelee:

 

[twizzlerj]

Marth is the MOST over rated

this is the truth

 

[knightpraetor]

pikachu isn't overrated..that upair is godlike...his edgeguarding and recovery are top tier..his upair at low-mid percents on spacies sets up a techchase easiliy and the character is fast and has good tech chases.

However, whether he is better than doc or not is too difficult a question for me..still..he earned his spot on the tier list.

I actually think he's substantially better than ganon.

I don't know if marth is overrated or not.. i used to think that marth deserved a higher spot on the tier list cause I believed he had a slight advantage on fox, but when I am honest I think fox has a better matchup on peach, IC, and sheik. So even if marth does have an advantage on fox I don't think it's enough to make marth move up tiers. Sadness...i want marth in god tier

honestly though most people on the boards seem to think that marth is garbage tier and can't punish platform camping or avoid getting shine spiked every stock..so if anything marth seems underrated

I think I agree with KK's list on everything except peach's placement and pikachu being below ganon.... I think peach is actually #2. But anyway everyone has a general idea of who the top 6 are, and who the next 3-4 are, so the actual order doesn't really matter much

KK, care to explain why you think pikachu belongs below ganon? what matchups do you think are worse for pikachu than they are for ganon. I honestly feel like the only one that seems better for ganon than for pikachu would be fighting jiggs, and even then the rest setups seem easier so i think they even out ganon's range advantage.


but honestly i don't really know the characters matchups well enough to say.. especially don't know how the two of them play against ICs

 

[ShroudedOne]

Meh...I'm inclined to think that Peach/Samus is pretty handily in Peach's favor, though Samus can handle it, I guess.

And I thought it was generally thought that Samus couldn't handle Falco?

Also, Kirbykaze, I'd be interested if you were to elaborate on what you mean by this game is becoming more about checkmating your opponent, and how Falco does this better than Fox. I think I sort of get it, but I still need some detail, if you don't mind.

Ganon's range advantage on Puff doesn't mean as much as you'd think, when she can just weave in and out of his zones faster than he can trap her in them. And she combos him really well, without guesswork.

 

[Divinokage]

Well checkmating your opponent is exactly the style I use and it's becoming pretty much the standard of high level these days. You want to push your opponent close to the edge where his options are limited, inside that range you can easily predict what his next move is. If he's on knockdown it's even easier to techchase because with one move you'll be able to cover basically all options whether he decides to do anything. This kind of style is pretty aggressive but it's also defensive at the same time because you never want to give up the center stage because if you do well.. you just failed to take the advantage. So you have to get closer and closer to your opponent and force decisions from him.. with the correct counter-attack or guess then the edgeguard is pretty much yours by then. So ya, the general style now is pretty much that, limiting your opponent's options to destroy him.

@ Carroll, and then I almost 4 stocked him with Ganon. It doesn't mean much what you say because that Ganon is not as experienced than me.

Pika being better than Ganon.. The matchup itself between the 2 I say it's probably a bit Ganon advantage actually because he can CG him and kill pretty early. Axe is better than me overall as well but in general I did not feel like the matchup was hard at all, I still felt like I could improve on my decision making on that particular matchup and in general to make the gap between us larger. 10-15 games isn't enough for me to rate a matchup at that high level even though I have played other Pikas in the past. I know Falcon does well vs Pika too and so should all the high tiers. Though being a beast with an unfamiliar character can cause fluxes in results and in what our judgment should be. (That in itself sucks because we only have 1 beast per mid tier characters.) To me, it's not enough to make accurate statements. It shows what could be but it could also mean the general smashers level isn't high enough to bring those particular characters down where they should be. (And it's also the fact that 90 something % of smashers aren't hungry enough to actually win and prove people wrong. I mean if people really wanted it, they would research every matchup to have no weakness.. they wouldn't get caught by surprise and their level in general would be much much higher. It would be a scary place to fight but I rarely feel threatened by anybody these days simply because their will is weak.) In this case, Axe is definitely beyond 99% of everybody playing this game.

 

[Bob Money]

S - Fox, Sheik, Falco
A - Marth, Peach/puff (but Marth imo is considerably better than both.)
B - Puff/peach Falcon, Doc, ICs ( Ic's and samus are very close to even IMO)
C - Samus, Pikachu, Ganon, Luigi, Mario
D - Link/Y.Link, DK, Roy, Zelda, Mewtwo, G&W, Yoshi
E - Pichu, Ness, Kirby, Bowser

S-Fox is unreal, no need to explain here. His run speed alone makes him a better character than falco Imo. Dash dance upsmash is amazing, being able to use it to trade hits, punish lag etc is a tool almost no one has out of a dash dance.(Amazing dash dance)
Shiek over Falco, I feel Shiek has more going for her in terms of her ability to compete vs a variety of playstyles. Falco dies much too fast when he's in a bad situation and the amount of consistency needed to apply pressure is pretty high vs top level players. Falco can be zoned out, albiet not easily, he sufferes alot more than fox when he is off stage.

A- Marth, yes there a few shining examples of his greatness, not many. With Marth he has an absolutly reliable damage on fox and falco and if you're M2k you have a reliable kill every grab. That's not to be taken lightly. The only character he can;t force into a defensive posture is fox. He's one of the few characters than can legitamte kills under 50 percent with spikes and tippers. His defensive options are not terrible and not great either he has enough tools to deal with pressure.

Peach= Puff- I don't have a big explanation for this. Both really easy to move around on. Peach less likly to die at 60 percent. Puff better punish. Stuff.

Ics >Samus -Both have flaws, both suck in the air, both have good combos, Ics getting grabs ***** but hard as ****. Samus up b out of shield reaaallly good. Stuff..
Ic's get the edge because they punish harder.

Pikachu is wierd, hes like a fox with down syndrome.

 

[Jeff the Killer]

This list, for some reason I disagree. It is because Mewtwo is not a bad character. Mewtwo's ranking should be higher. Donkey Kong, Luigi, and Dr. Mario do NOT deserve their places. In fact, they should be much, much lower than any other character. Donkey Kong is slow, Luigi has the worst recovery move, and Dr. Mario is just a weak clone of Mario. Roy also does not deserve his current ranking. If anything, he should be ABOVE Marth, as Roy is a more powerful version of Marth.

See, Mewtwo would have the upper hand against Fox with a perfectly timed down special, Roy would have an upper hand because of his power and recovery, Luigi and Dr. Mario would definitely lose to Link, and Donkey Kong would lose to Pichu in a self-explanitory way. Ganondorf would not be up higher than Luigi, because of his jumping height, speed of attack, and of course, weight. Yoshi deserves a bit higher, Link needs to go up 6 increments, Young Link by 5, Roy above Young Link, Marth below Young Link, Luigi and Doc below Bowser, DK below Pichu, and Mewtwo in front of Samus. By the way, Samus needs to be below Marth and Mewtwo.

 

[Twinkles]

@Bob$ I don't get the tier division between A and B, mostly because you have Peach/Puff in both A and B and I was thinking tier divisions were used to indicate a significant difference in viability (or however these tiers are defined).

Also, could you explain a bit more about Shiek > Falco? Like, how Shiek is able to compete against more variety of playstyles or how Falco gets zoned out a bit harder than Fox/Shiek (I think this is what you implied, anyway)?

 

[JPOBS]

We finally rate a character high because it's performing well in tournaments and all you can come up with is, "They're overrated."

Suck my **** JPOBS

If pika is > doc/samus/ganon, then peach is the best character in the game.

These are my terms.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I find these terms agreeable.

I gladly bow down before our new dress-totting overlord.

 

[JPOBS]

Then it is agreed, henceforth, the tierlist shall be as follows:
S tier - Peach
A tier - Falco and stuff
C tier- Pika, Doc, Samus Ganon
D tier- Who cares

Go forth and prosper

 

[KirbyKaze]

Go forth and prosper

 

[Jockmaster]

Then it is agreed, henceforth, the tierlist shall be as follows:
S tier - Peach
A tier - Falco and stuff
C tier- Pika, Doc, Samus Ganon
D tier- Who cares

Go forth and prosper

Here it is

The tierlist we've all been waiting for

As long as Ganon is at least on the ***-end of viability then I will concur

 

[Warhawk]

Since when?

Last I checked he has only 4 disadvantageous MUs

Hmm? Shiek, Fox, Falco, Falcon, Puff, Peach, and Marth I would say are the characters that he at least loses to. Way more than 4 although I do think Ganon's not that terrible and belongs right around the top 10 cutoff.

 

[Jockmaster]

Hmm? Shiek, Fox, Falco, Falcon, Puff, Peach, and Marth I would say are the characters that he at least loses to. Way more than 4 although I do think Ganon's not that terrible and belongs right around the top 10 cutoff.

I personally would say he loses to Sheik, spacies, Peach, and Link (which is five), then goes even with quite a few.

 

[Dr Peepee]

LMFAO I love you kk XD

 

[Tero.]

I personally would say he loses to Sheik, spacies, Peach, and Link (which is five), then goes even with quite a few.

What about Marth and Puff?

 

[KirbyKaze]

LMFAO I love you kk XD

Oh you~

Also, with you having a girlfriend does this mean no more sexy time?

Because I'm okay with being the other woman but I dunno if you're okay with having one...

:/

 

[Geenareeno]

What about Marth and Puff?

He really does quite well against Puff because he kills her so easily, and has huge hitboxes to space against her with. Reverse u-air and and bair are nasty. CC > jab/d-tilt is really good too. It's probably 55:45 Puff. Marth... idk. Linguini thinks it's even. Kage gets destroyed by m2k whenever he goes Marth.

 

[KirbyKaze]

One time on FD = he gets destroyed every time

Yeah okay

 

[ShroudedOne]

@Kage: Yeah, that makes sense. That was sort of what I was thinking, that stage control that allows you to checkmate people by closing off options. Fox's stage control certainly doesn't seem as powerful as Falco's in that respect. Thanks.

Again, I'm not seeing Ganon doing well against Puff. But I'm willing to believe that some of that is due to Hbox bias.

 

[Divinokage]

@Kage: Yeah, that makes sense. That was sort of what I was thinking, that stage control that allows you to checkmate people by closing off options. Fox's stage control certainly doesn't seem as powerful as Falco's in that respect. Thanks.

Again, I'm not seeing Ganon doing well against Puff. But I'm willing to believe that some of that is due to Hbox bias.

Vs Hbox, it's too hard because he's simply beyond the best Ganon's skill level and also he knows the matchup very well.. so these days I'm pretty much forced to switch. Other than him, the matchup is still relatively easier than spacies but ya I still think it's Puff advantage.

He really does quite well against Puff because he kills her so easily, and has huge hitboxes to space against her with. Reverse u-air and and bair are nasty. CC > jab/d-tilt is really good too. It's probably 55:45 Puff. Marth... idk. Linguini thinks it's even. Kage gets destroyed by m2k whenever he goes Marth.

Correct assumption would be whenever he goes Sheik, I can beat his Marth. That matchup is either 50-50 or slightly Marth advantage. And ya one game on my worst stage = destroyed constantly all of a sudden.. let's see I forgot to mention I have beaten him in a MM before and I can do it again.

 

[unknown522]

One time on FD = he gets destroyed every time

Yeah okay

ikr?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Oh you~

Also, with you having a girlfriend does this mean no more sexy time?

Because I'm okay with being the other woman but I dunno if you're okay with having one...

:/

what man I really enjoy you being yourself!

also you already know my aim window/hotel door is always cracked for you =)



tier-part: kage bair more please that is a good Ganon thing to do vs Puff.

results lists ain't gud.

 

[unknown522]

Linguini said the same thing about kage vs puff when he played hbox at RoM 2+3.

Also a friend of mine from Nicaragua (N0ne) was saying the same thing when he came to Toronto last month (b-air is Ganon's best aerial. B-air is good vs jiggs, peach, sheik, etc).

 

[KirbyKaze]

KK, care to explain why you think pikachu belongs below ganon? what matchups do you think are worse for pikachu than they are for ganon. I honestly feel like the only one that seems better for ganon than for pikachu would be fighting jiggs, and even then the rest setups seem easier so i think they even out ganon's range advantage.

Aside from the FFers I think Ganon is better than Pika vs most of the cast

Also, Kirbykaze, I'd be interested if you were to elaborate on what you mean by this game is becoming more about checkmating your opponent, and how Falco does this better than Fox. I think I sort of get it, but I still need some detail, if you don't mind.

No.

Well checkmating your opponent is exactly the style I use and it's becoming pretty much the standard of high level these days. You want to push your opponent close to the edge where his options are limited, inside that range you can easily predict what his next move is. If he's on knockdown it's even easier to techchase because with one move you'll be able to cover basically all options whether he decides to do anything. This kind of style is pretty aggressive but it's also defensive at the same time because you never want to give up the center stage because if you do well.. you just failed to take the advantage. So you have to get closer and closer to your opponent and force decisions from him.. with the correct counter-attack or guess then the edgeguard is pretty much yours by then. So ya, the general style now is pretty much that, limiting your opponent's options to destroy him.

Kind of.