Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Grim Tuesday]

I'd say that Yoshi should be considered for that position too, but I don't want to lure Leffen out of hiding.

 

[Strong Badam]

Yoshi probably has the potential to be, but that's not relevant.

 

[DerfMidWest]

G&w's recovery is a lot better than people think...
That said, its still easily punished.
At the very least, its like 10x better than roy's. I think g&w should be up with zelda.
Yoshi is less good. He has things, but similar to roy, if you hold down, he can't do anything.
Not having OoS options really hurts him too.

 

[The Star King]

except neither game has a sizeable playerbase

Says the Smash 64 player. From Australia.

Oh wait...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ITT: people who don't go to tournaments discussing tournament viability

 

[The Star King]

It only took you 247 pages (use 40 ppp noobs) to catch on, eh, Sveet?

Oh, and if you're gonna go down that path, people who aren't good at the game aren't much better.

 

[Bones0]

Every tournament within an hour of me ever has been hosted by me. :|

 

[Kimimaru]

Yoshi is less good. He has things, but similar to roy, if you hold down, he can't do anything.
Not having OoS options really hurts him too.

I disagree. He has an aerial grab which can be used when the opponent is trying to CC an aerial or shield grab him. No OOS options is annoying, but his shield partially compensates for that. Having a really slow grab is his biggest problem, in my opinion.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It only took you 247 pages (use 40 ppp noobs) to catch on, eh, Sveet?

Oh, and if you're gonna go down that path, people who aren't good at the game aren't much better.

You're saying there are people who don't use 40ppp?

They must be leading miserable lives.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Nobody was discussing viability.
I just said roy was bad and zelda was less bad.

 

[Varist]

Not having OoS options really hurts him too.

lol and the ten lols

 

[DerfMidWest]

I don't understand how having no out of shield could possibly be not bad...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ask falcon what its like without oos options

 

[john!]

ask g&w what it's like without a shield

 

[The Good Doctor]

DK has really bad shield problems too, but at least he has an OoS option.

 

[Divinokage]

Shields don't exist anymore. =)

 

[Bones0]

Shields don't exist anymore. =)

So much this.

 

[unknown522]

Shields don't exist anymore. =)

For unknown522.....

Fixed

 

[Divinokage]

Do you want to know how many shield stabs I got in my last training session? More than 100.

 

[DerfMidWest]

at least falcon can like shield grab or knee if his opponent messes up.
yoshi can't even do that.
he has his gimmicky light shield, but if his opponent is aware of it they will use moves that won't push it to pressure it (i.e. fox's drill)

 

[Kimimaru]

Pretty much every move in the game pushes Yoshi's light shield considerably, even Fox's lasers. The opponent can't possibly know if Yoshi is light shielding or not until they hit him because it doesn't look any different from his normal shield.

Falcon's best option is to shield grab because his knee comes out on frame 14, and that's not including the time it takes for him to jump. Yoshi can grab if an opponent hits his shield with a smash attack, and if he parries first he has time to react accordingly. The main difference is that Falcon can get shield stabbed while Yoshi cannot, and the extremely small hitbox on Yoshi's rolls can help him escape shield pressure more easily than Falcon's rolls.

If you're getting shield pressured on top of a platform with any character though, you can probably shield drop and get down safely.

 

[DerfMidWest]

no... you can safely hit yoshi's light shield with fox... I play against a yoshi all the time.
drill doesn't push the shield anywhere really.. like it pushes it a tiny bit, but you can just SHFFL drill through it and it goes back the other way... its like super easy.

 

[Xyzz]

Everybody can safely pressure Yoshis shield. What's he gonna do? Shield grab you with that lol 18 frames grab? :D

 

[Kimimaru]

no... you can safely hit yoshi's light shield with fox... I play against a yoshi all the time.
drill doesn't push the shield anywhere really.. like it pushes it a tiny bit, but you can just SHFFL drill through it and it goes back the other way... its like super easy.

Yoshi can safely roll out of simple drill pressure, though. If the Fox wants to shine to increase pressure then it will end up pushing Yoshi farther away and get him out of it.

 

[Ripple]

Everyone saying roy only has DD grab is ******** and hasn't played against one.

DED is easily his best ground move and aerial move.

Its better than marths too, bonus points

 

[asianaussie]

Says the Smash 64 player. From Australia.

Oh wait...

im going to boot up my tablet properly and then draw the comic, except you'll be drawn with mouse and not the pen, cuz you're a jerk

 

[DerfMidWest]

you don't need to shine on yoshi's shield. shine is to protect from grab. yoshi isn't gonna grab.
you can just SHFFL drills and look for the roll.
when yoshi rolls, you just chase him.
its like... shield pressure for scrubs.
the only thing is when he's on a platforms he can shield drop into stuff, but so can everybody else.

 

[Kimimaru]

SHFFL drills aren't as fast as you're making them out to be; Yoshi can roll out of the pressure just fine. Yoshi can even roll before you started another drill, causing you to miss, and you won't be able to catch up to him in time before he gets out of his shield. I've done this many times before.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

the only thing is when he's on a platforms he can shield drop into stuff.

shield drop -> 2nd jump -> get hit -> aerial counter

????

 

[ShroudedOne]

Everyone saying roy only has DD grab is ******** and hasn't played against one.

DED is easily his best ground move and aerial move.

Its better than marths too, bonus points

Remind me, what does DED stand for?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Double-Edge Dance

 

[unknown522]

His DED is better than marth's, but his d-tilt is definitely his best ground move (not counting grab I guess?)

Do you want to know how many shield stabs I got in my last training session? More than 100.

pics or it didn't happen

 

[DerfMidWest]

LOL. Yoshi gets ***** by drill are you kidding?
Besides, you don't need to drill immediately after the first, because yoshi can't escape.
I've played the MU a lot. If yoshi gets caught in shield he's done.
You don't even need to hit him. You can just sit there and stare at him and he can't escape. Fox is fast enough to catch him out of any roll and if he tries to grab fox can jump over him and hit him.
I don't understand how you are trying to argue that yoshi's shield game is good. He doesn't get poked, but he's sooo easily pressured that its not even funny.
Yoshi has good qualities, but his shield is NOT one of them.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Everyone saying roy only has DD grab is ******** and hasn't played against one.

DED is easily his best ground move and aerial move.

Its better than marths too, bonus points

Every character has a "Best Move"

Bowser's is Up B

Note that Bowser is still a **** character. Having a "Best move" does not qualify your character as "Not ****"

 

[Kimimaru]

LOL. Yoshi gets ***** by drill are you kidding?
Besides, you don't need to drill immediately after the first, because yoshi can't escape.
I've played the MU a lot. If yoshi gets caught in shield he's done.
You don't even need to hit him. You can just sit there and stare at him and he can't escape. Fox is fast enough to catch him out of any roll and if he tries to grab fox can jump over him and hit him.
I don't understand how you are trying to argue that yoshi's shield game is good. He doesn't get poked, but he's sooo easily pressured that its not even funny.
Yoshi has good qualities, but his shield is NOT one of them.

I'm not saying that Yoshi's shield game is good; I just think that you're exaggerating the situation. I play against Fox players all the time and have never been permanently stuck in my shield because I feared getting hit. If the Yoshi player you play against is in his shield that long you should be grabbing him anyway.

I don't know how experienced that Yoshi player is, but every good Yoshi player knows how to manage his shield and knows the best options for escaping shield pressure. Yoshi can even spot dodge if the situation calls for it. Even if a Fox is halfway across Dreamland and a Yoshi is on one of the edges, Yoshi can get out of his shield and run before Fox gets to him. People don't have frame perfect reaction times.

 

[ShroudedOne]

The fact that you play against a Yoshi all the time, in and of itself, doesn't give your argument credibility, since the Yoshi you play against has no credibility (on Smashboards, at least). He could very well be playing the matchup incorrectly.

Just a thought.

 

[V3ctorMan]

I think Yoshi's shield is amazing!.. sure I got caught in it at times... but i'd rather get caught in shield than "other" things..

Yoshi's shield is one of the LEAST of my worries when playing him..

 

[Grim Tuesday]

<3

 

[The Star King]

I've played the MU a lot.

With whom?

 

[DerfMidWest]

Local yoshi main called double rocky.