Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[RaphaelRobo]

Me and Leffen haven't been talking, and I believe Yoshi should be D Tier. Because he's a Dinosaur.

 

[Deleted member]

LOL at roy having a better throw game/edgeguards then GAW

are you serious umbreon

wait no, you have talked with PP so nvm you're right

i think i know things because i talk to some of the best people we have.

you think you know things because you're european.

 

[Bing]

oh dear here we go again -_-

Leffen doesnt think he knows things because he's European

Leffen thinks he knows thing because Leffen is Self-absorbed and Egotistical. Anywho moving on.

 

[odinNJ]

Me and Leffen haven't been talking, and I believe Yoshi should be D Tier. Because he's a Dinosaur.

Flawless logic, however if suddenly people start learning the matchup inside out and start mega ****** yoshi he can be e tier because he attacks with Eggs

 

[Warhawk]

Umbreon could you go into a bit more detail on how Roy has a better grab game and better edgeguarding than G&W? For the most part I agree with the other things (although I think G&W recovery is more than slightly better than Roy's but that's not that big of a deal) I just want to hear your take on the other things because I think their grab game is pretty close (Roy probably gets grabs a lot easier though) and that their edgeguarding is close too or even favors G&W.

 

[leffen]

i think i know things because i talk to some of the best people we have.

you think you know things because you're european.

You think you know things because PP is too nice to call you out on your hopeless bull****
I could list a ****ton of things that you have been dead wrong on if I wanted to, but you'd probably answer with "lol I talk with PP ".

EVERY SINGLE POST you make you refuse to properly explain anything, and just come in spoofing with made up authority that you think you have (and the only "ground" you give is that you talked about it with PP)

You are a washed up veteran that thinks he know **** when you dont have any ****ing clue about high level play anymore

"roy's DD alone is better than mewtwo's entire character."
"yoshi is gimped as soon as his character appears on the stage with a capable opponent."
"YL vs fox is IMO one of the worst matchups in the entire game. a technically proficient fox can just do moves at the character blindly and it's horribly hopeless."

Never any explanation. Why? Every time you say "lol lets talk on aim" or "I have already discussed this with PP" lmfao


and for me, no, I think I know a lot about the game because I play it in actively in tournament, experiment more than ANYONE and because many top players have appreciated and implemented things I've told them into their game

Oh, as for talking to good people. I talk to and coach Armada, THE best player,and he has now 3-0d your boy PP TWICE.

STFU or use decent arguments for once

 

[odinNJ]

Game and watch has is fair, he also has a much safer dropzone because of his massive vertical recovery. His dtilt is incredible, his nair is cool, and his fsmash lasts really long and comes out ok.

Roy has good options such as flare blade which hangs below ledge, fsmash is ok, and he can counter spacies.

However, i think that overall g and w has better edgeguarding.

As for recoveries they both suck.

Roy has a much better grab/sheild grab as well as dd grab, wherease g and w can combo better out of grabs.

 

[Deleted member]

nah. europe. lol

 

[Bing]

nah. europe. lol

For som reason this made me lol...

 

[The Star King]

As much as I don't like Leffen, I gotta admit that what he said about Umbreon making assertions in an authoritative tone and never backing them up or explaining is too true... Leffen is similarly self-superior but at least he attempts to explain his reasoning

 

[leffen]

I love making people hate to love me

 

[choknater]

both leffen and umbreon are mad inflammatory so i don't mind seeing them argue

when it comes to melee knowledge though i'd def say the stuff leffen says holds more merit

 

[Bing]

I would have to agree in that Leffen does explain himself pretty well.. I've never really paid attention to Umbreon's posts though tbh.

 

[leffen]

The reason that I act like a douche on the internet is because I enjoy seeing people rage over the internet. It colors these empty words.

Oh and people are horribly incorrect and awful at ****ing everything and everyone is to ****ing prideful to admit anything of it so they never improve

 

[Bing]

The reason that I act like a douche on the internet is because I enjoy seeing people rage over the internet. It colors these empty words.

Oh and people are horribly incorrect and awful at ****ing everything and everyone is to ****ing prideful to admit anything of it so they never improve

Thats a terrible generalization...lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

On the subject of Leffen, I enjoy reading his posts.

I wouldn't want to get in an argument with him, though. I'm fairly certain I'd lose. It wouldn't matter what the argument was. I could say the sky is blue, while he good say it's purple with pink stripes, and he'd find a way to win.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I will say that I can't blame Umbreon for not having the patience to post extensive thoughts on this forum. And AIM discussions result in more organic thoughts. It's an easier and looser forum.

 

[The Star King]

I will say that I can't blame Umbreon for not having the patience to post extensive thoughts on this forum.

I agree that people with knowledge shouldn't be expected to explain everything if they don't want to, BUT if you don't have the patience for it then don't make claims contradicting other people in the first place (which Umbreon certainly doesn't refrain from doing). Be willing to explain your reasoning if you're gonna be all "ur wrong bro" all the time.

 

[leffen]

How so? I'm of course I don't literally mean what I said... but you get the point.
Explaining exactly why I do what I do would take too much work and I'd probably lie my *** off because I'm flawed, like everybody else.


AIM discussions often tend to be more about just overwhelming your opponent instead of actually thinking properly while arguing. The results of the discussion is also entirely dependent on how stupid the other person is. When you make a forum post, your target audience is much bigger and has no such limitations.
They also have the advantage of being private, so Umbreon's terrible explanations never reach anyone who has already acknowledged him.

 

[choknater]

the only unusual thing that i hold to be true that most people don't believe is that ic's destroy puff.

i think more people are believing it now though

chu beat hungrybox and he didn't even do the broken stuff HAHAHAHA

 

[Bing]

hmm, I completely agree with Leffen, just because you say you had a discussion on AIM doesnt mean you were right, nor was the person you were speaking with, thats all theorycrafting, however when you target a larger general audience like a forum, the odds of your wrongs being pointed out are much higher.

 

[leffen]

the only unusual thing that i hold to be true that most people don't believe is that ic's destroy puff.

i think more people are believing it now though

chu beat hungrybox and he didn't even do the broken stuff HAHAHAHA

yoooo its so true lol


chu not using blizzard/wobbling and still pulling out is HILARIOUS.

 

[Warhawk]

As much as I don't like Leffen, I gotta admit that what he said about Umbreon making assertions in an authoritative tone and never backing them up or explaining is too true... Leffen is similarly self-superior but at least he attempts to explain his reasoning

Pretty sure they both do it on purpose and both of them enjoy the reactions they get from others lol.

 

[The Star King]

It doesn't matter. Umbreon is a buttface regardless.

 

[ViperGold42]

It doesn't matter. Umbreon is a buttface regardless.

whoa............

 

[JPOBS]

You think you know things because PP is too nice to call you out on your hopeless bull****
I could list a ****ton of things that you have been dead wrong on if I wanted to, but you'd probably answer with "lol I talk with PP ".

EVERY SINGLE POST you make you refuse to properly explain anything, and just come in spoofing with made up authority that you think you have (and the only "ground" you give is that you talked about it with PP)

You are a washed up veteran that thinks he know **** when you dont have any ****ing clue about high level play anymore

"roy's DD alone is better than mewtwo's entire character."
"yoshi is gimped as soon as his character appears on the stage with a capable opponent."
"YL vs fox is IMO one of the worst matchups in the entire game. a technically proficient fox can just do moves at the character blindly and it's horribly hopeless."

Never any explanation. Why? Every time you say "lol lets talk on aim" or "I have already discussed this with PP" lmfao


and for me, no, I think I know a lot about the game because I play it in actively in tournament, experiment more than ANYONE and because many top players have appreciated and implemented things I've told them into their game

Oh, as for talking to good people. I talk to and coach Armada, THE best player,and he has now 3-0d your boy PP TWICE.

STFU or use decent arguments for once

Daaaaaaaaaamn.

Exposed.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Funny thing is, I actually do think Roy's dash dance game is better than most of Mewtwo's character

 

[choknater]

but see the thing is, we'll listen to you if you say it.

 

[Bones0]

Dude, G&W is boss. People just ***** out fair way too much. Stay grounded and stick with dtilt, yo. Probably one of the best moves in the game. His grab is also decent with above average throws. Just stop fairing, people. Stop fairing. STOP FAIRING.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Dtilt isn't one of the best moves in the game...

It is fast-ish, disjointed and sets up for combos. If that = one of the best moves, Marth is better than we give him credit for.

 

[Wake]

Dude, G&W is boss. People just ***** out fair way too much. Stay grounded and stick with dtilt, yo. Probably one of the best moves in the game. His grab is also decent with above average throws. Just stop fairing, people. Stop fairing. STOP FAIRING.

One does not simply "stop fairing" with G&W.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Game and Watch is the low-tier I hate fighting the absolute MOST. He feels good, sometimes, but he's not, so he's just freaking annoying.

 

[Wake]

I think Luigi and Zelda can be annoying for Peach.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I've been thinking a lot about the tier list in 2012 and the future. Personally, I think Falco is solid at #1.

Viable:
Falco
Fox/Puff
Sheik
Marth
Peach
ICs
Falcon

Semi-viable:
Ganon
Doc
Samus/Mario
Luigi/Pikachu

Gray area:
Yoshi
Young Link
DK/Link
Zelda

Un-viable:
Roy/Mewtwo
G&W
Bowser/Ness
Kirby/Pichu

What do people think about this list?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You overrate Puff. Her match-up spread is pretty good, but not even comparable to Foxes. Fox doesn't go even with random mid tiers like Ganon/Young Link/etc...

Other than that, seems pretty uniform.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Ganon kinda gets wrecked by Puff...

 

[ViperGold42]

I guess what Taj did for Mewtwo is overlooked and he is unplayable.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ganon kinda gets wrecked by Puff...

Mango vs. Kage says otherwise.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Taj's primary strategy with mewtwo is to run away and abuse teleport while chipping in damage. Mewtwo doesn't really have attacks that are good at preventing approach or counter attacking. He is very light and large, so he dies early and cannot CC for very long. His combos are fairly bad, probably worse than roy's; they revolve around tech chasing and eventually performing dtilt->ftilt. While Taj was quite good at executing this strategy, I do not consider it to be very viable for actually winning, especially winning an entire tournament.

 

[Strong Badam]

Mango vs. Kage says otherwise.

weak anecdotal evidence from a bad example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5ZE-HxVBE
link > ganondorf folks