KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Captain Canuck, still getting no love and put in the background.
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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List
- Thread starter Slhoka
- Start date
Mahone
Smash Champion
Hahah, good one strongbad 
Bones0
Smash Legend
Mango... Puff main... BANNED.
Mahone... Puff main... BANNED.
DUN DUN DUN
Mahone... Puff main... BANNED.
DUN DUN DUN
Tekk
Smash Lord
Puffs....ASSEMBLE!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Should shop Jigglypuff's angry face onto Leonidas.
The thing I dislike about constructing tier lists with Melee is that we have such a tiny player pool for top level players that it's really hard to tell (at least, for me) whether or not some of these characters actually do improve substantially after a certain skill threshold. I feel like a lot of people in this thread are arguing character rankings for different levels of play. Using Armada as the standard for Peach is acceptable for some people but not for others. These sorts of things make a ranking difficult...
I kind of envision all of Max's posts prefaced with: "At the highest levels of play we currently see today..." and then his claims don't really seem that weird. At all.
I'm unconvinced that Peach is better than a lot of the characters that people are placing below her, but it's certainly crossed my mind that reaching the level of tech skill and precision that Armada has with her might open up a lot of subtle options that make a big difference. The options that are gained by being smart (and conservative) with Puff are really immediately obvious (crouch counters a lot of important grabs, fastest roll invincibility, OHKOs & OHKO setups, resistance to death & gimping, etc). That's probably why I don't mind bumping her so much. Maybe I'm wrong to do it.
At any rate, yes, player pool. We're kind of lacking here. We really don't have a top level Sheik right now. Not one at the peak level of gameplay. I'm hesitant to even say we have a Fox at that level. Not so much because I doubt Mango's Fox (it's incredibly good) but more because he only uses it for two people and his style is really fruity (in an incredibly manly way).
The thing I dislike about constructing tier lists with Melee is that we have such a tiny player pool for top level players that it's really hard to tell (at least, for me) whether or not some of these characters actually do improve substantially after a certain skill threshold. I feel like a lot of people in this thread are arguing character rankings for different levels of play. Using Armada as the standard for Peach is acceptable for some people but not for others. These sorts of things make a ranking difficult...
I kind of envision all of Max's posts prefaced with: "At the highest levels of play we currently see today..." and then his claims don't really seem that weird. At all.
I'm unconvinced that Peach is better than a lot of the characters that people are placing below her, but it's certainly crossed my mind that reaching the level of tech skill and precision that Armada has with her might open up a lot of subtle options that make a big difference. The options that are gained by being smart (and conservative) with Puff are really immediately obvious (crouch counters a lot of important grabs, fastest roll invincibility, OHKOs & OHKO setups, resistance to death & gimping, etc). That's probably why I don't mind bumping her so much. Maybe I'm wrong to do it.
At any rate, yes, player pool. We're kind of lacking here. We really don't have a top level Sheik right now. Not one at the peak level of gameplay. I'm hesitant to even say we have a Fox at that level. Not so much because I doubt Mango's Fox (it's incredibly good) but more because he only uses it for two people and his style is really fruity (in an incredibly manly way).
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Per Request. But I felt it should be happy and not angry.
There would probably never be a large pool of top level players because we only look at perhaps the top 1-2 of any character anyway.
There would probably never be a large pool of top level players because we only look at perhaps the top 1-2 of any character anyway.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I agree with everything but...
These "others" are morons who don't understand the fundamentals of tier listing.
We don't.
danieljosebatista
Smash Journeyman
Pretty Sure Javi is close to that level. A lot of people were saying that he was "only good against fast fallers," which is not true imo. He beat Vanz and KDJ so that argument is bull. He also beat PP and Hax, went even with M2K in friendlies, and performed pretty decently against Mango in that exhibition match. And despite not knowing the Puff matchup he started to get decent at it by game 3 of his set with Hbox. Honestly, if there's a fox who has the potential to be top level I think it's Javi. You don't just accidentally beat beat top US players like that
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i agree about javi
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
javi is legit. want to see more of that guy
DeadLastClown
Smash Apprentice
I agree with KK. Most characters are super boring to play as and a lot haven't really attempted to master them fully exploring every single glitch (For all we know maybe there is some intense way to play Bowser) or technique with a character.
DeadLastClown
Smash Apprentice
milk was a bad choice!
twizzlerj
Smash Journeyman
Oh its so hot out...
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Well...with the direction this thread is going in.
Puff Boards Assemble!
Now put puff on that with sing around it.
Puff Boards Assemble!
Now put puff on that with sing around it.
DeadLastClown
Smash Apprentice
♫ ♪ Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight
gonna grab some afternoon delight.
My motto's always been; when it's right, it's right.
Why wait until the middle of a cold dark night.
When everything's a little clearer in the light of day.
And you know the night is always gonna be there any way.
Sky rockets in flight. Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight. ♫ ♪
twizzlerj
Smash Journeyman
Thinkin' of you's workin' up my appetite
looking forward to a little afternoon delight.
Rubbin' sticks and stones together makes the sparks ingite
and the thought of rubbin' you is getting so exciting.
Sky rockets in flight. Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
I feel like I was called here.
But I'm not sure why.
But I'm not sure why.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
supposedly there is
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
The mods are here, quick! Talk about the tier list.
it's umm...a nice list. I like how they come one after another, makes it easy to...follow.
but srsly, what say you people about ICs being in a league of their own. I kind of like it, do you guys think there's anyone else who should be separated from the character below or above them?
san diago it means whale's ******
it's umm...a nice list. I like how they come one after another, makes it easy to...follow.
but srsly, what say you people about ICs being in a league of their own. I kind of like it, do you guys think there's anyone else who should be separated from the character below or above them?
terrible attempt at getting on topic. **** it, let's talk yazz flute
san diago it means whale's ******
choknater
Smash Obsessed
ic's b tier is too good
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Can you please explain he fundamentals of tier listing?
JPOBS
Smash Hero
Absolutely not KK. Only the cool kids like Blistering Speed get to know the fundamentals of tier list making. How else is he supposed to look down his nose at other people on the internet and make snarky comments?
Kal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 2,973
It's like, you take your set of stuff, right? And you have to order it. But you don't just order it. You order the **** out of it. That distinction is pretty important. Because if you just order it, you're like all those other morons who don't understand the fundamentals of tier listing.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Step 1-Order the list
Step 2-Order the **** of the list
Step 3-put own character 3-9 spaces down
Step 4- Get **** on by mains of your number one spot
Step 2-Order the **** of the list
Step 3-put own character 3-9 spaces down
Step 4- Get **** on by mains of your number one spot
choknater
Smash Obsessed
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highs...oregon-girls-basketball-Atitle-161914113.html
looks like melee isn't the only game that's evolving
looks like melee isn't the only game that's evolving
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Fox/Falco
Sheik/Puff
Marth
Peach
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Pikachu/Mario/Luigi
Young Link
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Link
Zelda
Mewtwo/Game&Watch/Roy
Kirby/Bowser
Ness/Pichu
Sheik/Puff
Marth
Peach
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Pikachu/Mario/Luigi
Young Link
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Link
Zelda
Mewtwo/Game&Watch/Roy
Kirby/Bowser
Ness/Pichu
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
I like your yoshi placement Sveet, and your list overall. Only thing I would change is put some blocks between say Samus and Pikachu or Roy and Kirby and put Mewtwo higher. I do like the order though
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I think there are a lot of potentially confounding factors with Javi's performance. If he can perform similarly at a second major (which I would ****ing love, by the way), then I'd be inclined to agree.
Why would you not take into account an already attained human potential in character placement? I don't think this can possibly be a point of contention.
Mr Burgundy is pretty ****ing cool. I don't think this can possibly be a point of contention.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
We have to take into account Armada's performance, obviously, but also account for how much of his success is due to his ability to outplay his opponents, compared to how much ore viable he may have made her. I think that you have to remember that most of the people he beats, he doesn't beat because of Peach.
I'm tired of this discussion.
I'm tired of this discussion.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I don't disagree. Look at the statement I originally found issue with.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I think I understand now. Going to call no sleep johns, now.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Ness is not worse than Bowser Sveet. No way.
also: Mewtwo an entire tier below Zelda. Blasphemy.
also: Mewtwo an entire tier below Zelda. Blasphemy.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Yeah, he should be right below her.
DeadLastClown
Smash Apprentice
♫ ♪ Started out this morning feeling so polite
I always though a fish could not be caught who wouldn't bite
But you've got some bait a waitin' and I think I might try nibbling
a little afternoon delight.
Sky rockets in flight. Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight. ♫ ♪
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Realistically speaking, any noticeably disadvantageous matchup should be unwinnable*
*Assuming factors such as stage and player skill difference do not interfere with the matchup itself.
Recent low tier discussion: Kirby is legit the worst character in the game from what I've seen. Pichu is at least safe-ish on block.
KingofCereal
Smash Journeyman
Ness is not last. Too many surprise tricks. Pichu, Kirby, and Bowser are all really terrible, but I think Mewtwo has the worst options overall. Regardless of how good Taj is or whatever, I think Mewtwo is last. But what do I know.