Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

[Mew2King]

Clowsui, mango's falco is the best vs fox. I've never seen him lose to fox, I've seen him 3 stock jman for hours, and almost jv 5 stock lucky, and then he beat javi too.

from what i know, zhu was getting ***** badly vs javi (this is based off what dashizwiz told me only), and dsw told me (I THINK, not 100% sure on this part..) that he beat Javi most of their games but maybe he said they went back and forth, I am not sure which he said.

 

[leffen]

omg you're so bad at this aren't you LOL.

I think using theorycrafting, experience etc to determine matchups, not WHO BEAT WHO like you are. WHERE DID I SAY THAT FRIENDLIES MATTER? YOU DO ALL THE TIME, I DONT.


Tournament matches can be used in the form of "You could see the rush down potential that Javi exploited on PP, if more foxes used that maybe Fox's would dominate" or "You could see that perfect powershielding isn't that good from tournament matches" etc but you can not be ******** like you and say "WELL HEY MANGOS FALCO BEAT JAVI IN FRIENDLIES AND HE BEAT ALL FOXES IN TOURNAMENT SO YEAH FALCO>FOX NO QUESTION"
Especially when Mango himself says that Fox beats falco >______________________>

and did you seriously flame me for not using consistent logic?

 

[Armada]

People need to stop whine about "on point things". A LOT of people in this community seems to take away a lot of credits to players all the time. If they are not doing it then all the fans starts with all kind of terrible excuses and try to prove anything.

People in this community should man up and give people more credit instead of trying to find the best excuse to convince people that they could/can/are better then the person they lost against.

Daniel: He plays Fox cause he says he can't beat me with Falco. Falco have a way worse MU against Peach then fox (but yeah Falco/Peach is even). I also think he play the MU as fox a bit better. And yeah Falco is Mangos best char if you ask me.

 

[Mew2King]

MANGO says that because MANGO MAINS FALCO

Look at the results. Falco's do better than Fox's like 90% of the time, ever since I started playing this game back in 2005 this has been the case. It's been consistent every year since I've started playing, from a WIDE VARIETY OF PLAYERS (VERY wide variety of different players), so that is why I think falco is better than fox

I like how you start every post you make with an insult. Idk how your mom raised you in such a way

 

[twizzlerj]

Insults during an argument make you wrong since instead of saying something useful you insult the person you are arguing with. Falco>Fox

 

[leffen]

He doesn't anymore anymore, that was my ****ing point around ~25 fox players with only 8 falco players... and G2 had similar results and now the best falco MAIN (I dont consider mango a falco main, even if thats his best character) lost to the best Fox (Javi)

Fox has always outperformed Falco in the past too except for PP winning with Falco (all previous nationals had more fox players in bracket more or less)

Please quote your ****ing sources of Falcos ****** foxes or stfu please, and don't be that stupid to use friendlies as your argument again, please.

 

[Blu]

Being civil is the first step of conveying your side of an argument. Without it, you're just putting a bullet in your foot. You'll probably lose friends, too.

Ily Leffen, but I thought you'd be plenty smart enough to see this.

 

[leffen]

Being civil on the internet, lolol.

All m2k ever does is call people biased and insult me for insulting him, so how is he different?

 

[Mew2King]

but everyone mango beat he used falco afaik <__<
he lost with fox twice <__<

leffen I'm not a rude person, but it's annoying to see you start EVERY post with an insult

I say what I think, then give reasons for it

then you call those reasons STUPID and then you call me AN IDIOT

and the process goes on forever

 

[Merkuri]

He doesn't anymore anymore, that was my ****ing point around ~25 fox players with only 8 falco players... and G2 had similar results and now the best falco MAIN (I dont consider mango a falco main, even if thats his best character) lost to the best Fox (Javi)

Fox has always outperformed Falco in the past too except for PP winning with Falco (all previous nationals had more fox players in bracket more or less)

Please quote your ****ing sources of Falcos ****** foxes or stfu please, and don't be that stupid to use friendlies as your argument again, please.

Again this is just wrong. There were like 19 Foxes in apex bracket, not 25. And I think overall the falcos scored better. I'll average out the results and posts the stats later.

 

[Blu]

Being civil on the internet, lolol.

The only reason this seems so ridiculous is that the internet consists of so many annoying children with grammar poorer than their sense of courtesy.

From what I understand, you're definitely not a child.

 

[ruhtraeel]

MANGO says that because MANGO MAINS FALCO

Look at the results. Falco's do better than Fox's like 90% of the time, ever since I started playing this game back in 2005 this has been the case. It's been consistent every year since I've started playing, from a WIDE VARIETY OF PLAYERS (VERY wide variety of different players), so that is why I think falco is better than fox

I like how you start every post you make with an insult. Idk how your mom raised you in such a way

Leffen's such a troll

But Fox>Falco. People are just too scrub to use Fox properly

Tier list = character potential, right? If the player sucks it doesn't count


Everything points to Fox being a better character

 

[Mew2King]

i don't see what points to fox being a better character, except his jump being 2 frames faster (but his shine has a frame less shieldstun so it almost evens out). I think Falco's clearly better, and I've explained my many reasons for believing that already.

 

[leffen]

Fox users

3: Mango ($804.00) 1
4: Javi ($536.00) 2
9: Lovage 3
9: Unknown522 4
13: SFAT 5
13: Zhu 6
17: PewpewU (vs Vanz) 7
17: KoreanDJ (not 100% but I saw him using him in pools at least)8
17: Mew2King (Wobbles) 9
17: chillindude829 10
17: Silent Wolf 11
25: Weon-x 12
25: Eggm 13
25: Jman 14
25: Teczero 15
25: WestBallz (Hbox) 16
33: Ice 17
33: Tang 18
33: Druggedfox 19
33. LEFFEN 20
33: Redd 21
49: Eggz 22
49: SwiftBass 23
49. Col Bol 24
49. PC Chris 25
49. Cactuar 26
49 Cyrain 27
49 Ravenlord 28


Who was wrong? Also please stfu if you weren't even at the event lol

Falco players:
1. Mango
2. PP
3 Zhu
4 WestBallz
5 Dashizwiz
6 StricNyN
7 Th0rn
8 Mattdottzeb
9 StabbedbyA

 

[Blistering Speed]

Mew2king, at some point you'll have to realise that simply stating the results of matches (both friendlies and tournament matches) does not win these arguments. You need to, y'know, provide reasons and stuff.

More reasons than stating Fox's jump is two frames faster than Falco's.

 

[Mew2King]

i've already stated my reasons for falco in this past hour or so, and all the other posts ive made

i don't see what makes FOX better, except having a 2 frame faster ground jump being his only real advantage. Combos (especially guaranteed combos), RANGE, controlling the match, hitboxes, being able to play at a high level without messing up (human error which IS important but even without this i would think he's better still), and tourney results over past ... almost forever, have convinced me that falco is clearly better. I actually think he's quite a bit better as far as singles goes, and clearly worse in teams.

 

[Merkuri]

Fox users

3: Mango ($804.00) 1
4: Javi ($536.00) 2
9: Lovage 3
9: Unknown522 4
13: SFAT 5
13: Zhu 6
17: PewpewU (vs Vanz) 7
17: KoreanDJ (not 100% but I saw him using him in pools at least)8
17: Mew2King (Wobbles) 9
17: chillindude829 10
17: Silent Wolf 11
25: Weon-x 12
25: Eggm 13
25: Jman 14
25: Teczero 15
25: WestBallz (Hbox) 16
33: Ice 17
33: Tang 18
33: Druggedfox 19
33. LEFFEN 20
33: Redd 21
49: Eggz 22
49: SwiftBass 23
49. Col Bol 24
49. PC Chris 25
49. Cactuar 26
49 Cyrain 27
49 Ravenlord 28


Who was wrong? Also please stfu if you weren't even at the event lol

Falco players:
1. Mango
2. PP
3 Zhu
4 WestBallz
5 Dashizwiz
6 StricNyN
7 Th0rn
8 Mattdottzeb
9 StabbedbyA

Oh, you're using Fox player as people who used character in a single match. That's ********.

I just want to point out how stupid this list is so I'll use Mango as my example. FOR EVERY MATCH THAT MANGO WON, HE USED FALCO!. Meaning that he got as far in the bracket because he played Falco, everytime he used Fox he lost. So it's incorrect and downright dishonest to list him as a fox player. The same applies to Ice, Westballz, Zhu, Mew2king and Korean DJ.

Are you sure Pewpewu used Fox? I'd think that was wrong. Not so sure about Teczero either.

Edit: Another point worth mentioing is that there are more Fox players than Falco players so there is a larger pool to choose form. If you look at the results you'll see a lot of the Fox players fill out the back end of the bracket, which means that overall the bring down Fox's average. Again, I'll post the averaging stats on these when I have the time later today(if someone else wants to do it feel free to do so)

 

[leffen]

sigh.

Mango just used Fox to win all of his important matches at G2, M2K only wins vs Hbox with Fox, etc.

These players use fox for certain matchups (Puff,Peach for example). How they did doesn't change the fact that they essentially secondary Fox

 

[Mew2King]

taj because he is terrible vs fox, and hbox even though mango could use puff and win anyway most likely, since he's already 5-0 in sets. I think if he didn't use falco vs me, I have a good/better chance of beating him.

Also leffen, you completely tried to dodge what the above poster was saying after he called you out. You listed players as fox when fox did not help them advance bracket at all.

 

[Merkuri]

sigh.

Mango just used Fox to win all of his important matches at G2, M2K only wins vs Hbox with Fox, etc.

These players use fox for certain matchups (Puff,Peach for example). How they did doesn't change the fact that they essentially secondary Fox

I haven't looked at the results for G2 yet so I'd concede that. But Fox didn't actually help mango in the bracket. That he seconds the character is irrelevant if the character didn't actually help him in advance. It's essentially the same as him not using the character at all.

And M2k doesn't win vs Hbox at all. You are using very convenient and even twisted logic.

 

[tarheeljks]

I'll use Mango my example. FOR EVERY MATCH THAT MANGO WON, HE USED FALCO!. Meaning that he got as far in the bracket because he played Falco, everytime he used Fox he lost.

this is a bizarre causality chain. also pewpewu did not use fox

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think Puff is top tier just because she invalidates so much because of her design. I also think the OHKO gives her too much potential to get insurmountable leads. Having a few close MUs with some arbitrary characters is balanced by the fact that she's one of two characters that might have an advantage over Sheik (and the other is not a space animal, in my honest opinion).

Who is the other character then, in your opinion?

from what i know, zhu was getting ***** badly vs javi (this is based off what dashizwiz told me only), and dsw told me (I THINK, not 100% sure on this part..) that he beat Javi most of their games but maybe he said they went back and forth, I am not sure which he said.

This is true. I was near that TV at Apex.

Not that anyone would care anyways, but I do think that Sheik edges it out on Puff, as far as tier list placement. She certainly has better spacie MUs.

 

[Mew2King]

leffen it DOES matter if they LOST With fox or WON.

 

[Mew2King]

You are using very convenient and even twisted logic.

this is 2 funny

 

[Nujabes]

Master hand is better....

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Friendlies DO matter. Sure they shouldn't be held in the same weight as tournaments, however tournament matches are less than 1% of all the matches played. There is a lot of information you can gain from watching and judging friendlies

 

[Merkuri]

Friendlies DO matter. Sure they shouldn't be held in the same weight as tournaments, however tournament matches are less than 1% of all the matches played. There is a lot of information you can gain from watching and judging friendlies

Friendlies are probably more misinformative than anything. Mango was beating Armada in Apex friendlies and then he kinda got rocked in bracket matches. Friendlies are useless to draw anything substantive from.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if you want to take information about how the match-up can be played, the information is very valuable. If you want to get information about who can stall more, camp, not commit and otherwise play as gay as possible, look at tournament results. Any character can win if they just do these things, look at shroomed. If you have to do these things in order to win, the match-up is not even. Its bad. Really bad.

 

[Merkuri]

Shroomed plays gay? Idk about that.

And Leffen, I'd really like for you to agree to take those player I mentioned as well as PewPewu(and maybe Teczero because I really don't think he used Fox) out of the list of fox players before I go ahead and calculate the averages.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

if you want to take information about how the match-up can be played, the information is very valuable. If you want to get information about who can stall more, camp, not commit and otherwise play as gay as possible, look at tournament results. Any character can win if they just do these things, look at shroomed. If you have to do these things in order to win, the match-up is not even. Its bad. Really bad.

This is like

the worst post ever

 

[Divinokage]

ganon has falcon's problem: everyone 0-deaths him

pikachu and doc are, without question, better than ganon, at top/high level play

What? Ganon vs Falcon is easier than Fox/Sheik for sure.

 

[Kal]

Not that Ganon has Falcon problems. He shares the problem Falcon has, that he is easily combo'd to death.

 

[Divinokage]

Ohh, I have just woken up johns. Anyways, there's still things you can do to avoid getting 0-deathed.

 

[Kal]

Like unplugging the opponent's controller? Or like, real options?

 

[Xyzz]

Who is the other character then, in your opinion?.

The other character who is commonly believed to have a small advantage over sheik is fox.

@Fox - listings and stuff: Ravenlord used to be a fox main, but nowadays he's rather a Falco main. Just saying.
I think Fox also makes a more convenient secondary to switch to for some troublesome matchups then Falco, whose matchups tend to be rather on the evenish side.
Imho Fox and Falco are so close it doesn't really matter whom one assigns #1 and whom #2, but I'd put both of them above Jiggs for sure.

 

[ShroudedOne]

KK said that it wasn't a spacie. I wanted to know who else could have an advantage over her that wasn't a space animal.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

ICs probably

 

[Kal]

Here's hoping he throws a curveball and says Kirby.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

From what I've heard, Kirby actually has a decent matchup against Sheik. And by decent, I mean not as bad as his other matchups.

 

[KirbyKaze]