Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Fogo]

That is why it will be BANNED. When it completely destroy the balance of the game and turns it into "Use this character or lose".

when are you going to come to my bi weekly son???


i have one tomorrow :-)

 

[adumbrodeus]

That is why it will be BANNED. When it completely destroy the balance of the game and turns it into "Use this character or lose".

Which is why I put "until we get an official ban" in my title.

There's no doubt in my mind that this tech will be completely and totally banned.

However, the tier list reflects the current metagame, and right now MK has an unbeatable AT, thus the current metagame is, "mk is the only viable character".


Sure, it will only last like 5 minutes, but it's still the state of the game right now.

 

[Grunt]

I WILL NOT
miss page 777.

777 GET?

 

[Kiwikomix]

Weird. I don't FEEL any luckier.

 

[metalmonstar]

Why not just ban metaknight instead of the move?

Lucky 777. Jackpot. I warned you all about page 666 and now we are on page 777 so everyone who has made it this far is now a bit luckier. Those that only posted on page 666 are still doomed.

Yeah metaknight moves up to god tier whether or not this moved is used for stalling. I don't know why you would use it for anything other than stalling since using it to stall iis practically an insta win.

Chozen still hasn't responded to my post several hundred pages ago.

 

[PKSkyler]

Dont think you can use the meta AT for stalling...excessive stalling is ussually prohibited. Character specific stalling is always banned (according to any tounrey ive been to, ex. you cant just stall with sonic`s thing that lets him stay under the stage...)so meta knights dimension cape thing will get banned too.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yeah metaknight moves up to god tier whether or not this moved is used for stalling. I don't know why you would use it for anything other than stalling since using it to stall iis practically an insta win.

The point is, even is they figure out a way to reliably ban it for stalling, it's still an unsurmountable approach.

So, it's a non-issue, this technique needs to go, period.

Dont think you can use the meta AT for stalling...excessive stalling is ussually prohibited. Character specific stalling is always banned (according to any tounrey ive been to, ex. you cant just stall with sonic`s thing that lets him stay under the stage...)so meta knights dimension cape thing will get banned too.

Well, the fact that you CAN use it for stalling doesn't make the tech banned, only actually using them for stalling results in bans.

Beyond that, the ban criteria has always been "makes match-ups irrelevant", which this approach method obviously does, even without the infinite stall.

 

[Emblem Lord]

MK was already god tier lol.

Snake has kind of fallen off, since he has exploitable weaknesses while MK has none.

 

[Kiwikomix]

MK was already god tier lol.

Snake has kind of fallen off, since he has exploitable weaknesses while MK has none.

Is it just me, or have people finally begun "figuring out" Snake?
I think it may be because of his top of top position on most tier lists... everyone's like "omg Snake" and rushes to find out how to beat him. Only a few more intelligent people have started trying to find MK's weaknesses.

 

[Grunt]

Only a few more intelligent people have started trying to find MK's weaknesses.

They may as well try to find triforce shards without ocean charts.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Ugh. I hated that part of the game. ****ing Tingle.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

when are you going to come to my bi weekly son???


i have one tomorrow :-)

I've been trying >_<.

I always seem to have a relative come during the week or I have to work at my parents healthcare office >_>.

 

[Grunt]

who else will get a post on 777?

 

[Dpete]

<Snags a post on 777 for good luck>

So I get the vibe that there's a rising idea of placing MK higher than Snake, broken AT or not... interesting.

 

[WolfCypher]

who else will get a post on 777?

777 chars.

 

[Grunt]

778 Get?????

 

[Scala]

Are you kidding me? Gets only work on that other forum for a reason

Also, did nobody stop to consider that people may have the forums display more than the default amount of posts per page?

 

[Grunt]

Are you kidding me? Gets only work on that other forum for a reason

Also, did nobody stop to consider that people may have the forums display more than the default amount of posts per page?

There's a reason it's called a joke
and no one does that, that's ********.
>.>

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's only because Snake actually does have noticeable weaknesses that really affect his gameplay and there are situations you can put him in where he is at disadvantage.

You really can't do that to MK nor does he have serious weaknesses that opponent can directly take advantage of to beat him.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's only because Snake actually does have noticeable weaknesses that really affect his gameplay and there are situations you can put him in where he is at disadvantage.

You really can't do that to MK nor does he have serious weaknesses that opponent can directly take advantage of to beat him.

Really, I think that was known to be the case from the beginning.

As I've said before, the reason that Snake is THE top tier is not because he himself is the best character, it's because of MK's field-clearing effects, and Snake's advantage over MK.

Snake has overall good match-ups and an advantage against MK, without a glaring weakness in general or one against a highly popular character (DDD eliminates DK for example).

Mk, being a pick up and play character, is popular enough to eliminate the vast majority of the cast, but in the end, Snake beats him.

That's why Snake is the best, ranking-wise. It's not so much because Snake is an awesome character, it's because MK is an even better character.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I do not think Snake has advantage over MK at all. I think it's even.

The only thing Snake has on MK is that he can kill him early.

Ok?

MK has better pressure, better rushdown, a better recovery that can't be gimped, can harass his recovery, and punish pretty much anything stupid that he does.

But Snake has advantage cuz ya know...he can kill him early.

>_>

Also MK outranges him.

GGPO Snake.

 

[Vyse]

I have to agree with Emblem Lord.
Gannondorf can kill early too, but that doesn't mean a thing.

MK vs. Snake is like Fox vs. Falco in Melee. Player skill is the key difference.

But feel free to prove me wrong, I probably am -_-

 

[Dpete]

So EL, do you think MK's only bad matchup is DK, with a few neutrals sprinkled here and there?

And I think you made it clear you think MK is the best in the game. Do you still consider Snake the second best character in the game?

 

[Grunt]

MK is better, but only by a lil bit.
Snake can kill MK easier than most, and can be played almost solely on reaction. Since it's pretty obvious that defending in Brawl is OP, It makes Snake much easier to win with, thus his more tourney wins etc. HOWEVER, Snake can also go offense with his sliding and ridiculous tilts and such, it's just less effective.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Snake might not even be second. He seems to have 2 or 3 bad match-ups.

Actually on second thought...no. MK has advantage on Snake.

And DK does not have advantage on MK.

That's ridiculous. DK just doesn't get ***** like 98% of the cast.

He is in the same boat as Snake and Marth.

60/40 MK's advantage.

 

[Pierce7d]

Sorry, but I can't cosign on that. Grenades stop FAR too much of what Meta-knight can do. Snake kills meta at ******** percentages, whereas Meta has ******** difficulty in killing Snake, and Snake is hard to gimp due to a super-armored recovery, which is how meta scores most of his KOs. Harass, yes. Stop, not really.

It's not like MK is never punishable on block, and Snake does that pretty well. For Metaknight, it's pretty bad. He's light, and Snake's ftilt hits hard, far and fast.

It's true that MK plays a more offensive game vs Snake (and that Snake is defensive vs MK) but that doesn't give him the advantage. The number of things MK CAN'T DO while Snake is holding a grenade limits him tremendously on offense.

The simple Tourney results can tell you what the match-up is. I'm not even going to debate it.

Maybe Meta has the advantage on Rainbow Cruise . . .

Now, that's just the match-up between those two. As for who's the better character in general/vs other characters? I give it to MK.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Nades stop b moves. You know what happens when a nade stops your b move?

STOP DOING B MOVES!!!!!

The true sign of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.

If one strat isn't working, then that strat isn't a good strat for the match-up.

Snake kills MK with a move that MK easily outspaces. So MK only gets hit with it if he screws up royally. MK racks up damage like mad. So what if Snake takes awhile to die? MK's pressure game is too strong and Snake lacks the tools to deal with it. Also good spacing means nades and stopping his pressure game. MK also keeps him in the air for days with ease which means Snake gets alot of damage really really easily.

The match goes to MK.

 

[PK Hexagon]

So I get the vibe that there's a rising idea of placing MK higher than Snake, broken AT or not... interesting.

Meh. Before this tech, perhaps 5 or so pages back, there was whining that "700 pages and people still don't know that Snake is the best character in the game!?! Lawl!". The bandwagon effect is terrible. And threads like this? Good grief. People need to start thinking for themselves.

 

[Pierce7d]

Nades stop b moves. You know what happens when a nade stops your b move?

STOP DOING B MOVES!!!!!

The true sign of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.

If one strat isn't working, then that strat isn't a good strat for the match-up.

Snake kills MK with a move that MK easily outspaces. So MK only gets hit with it if he screws up royally. MK racks up damage like mad. So what if Snake takes awhile to die? MK's pressure game is too strong and Snake lacks the tools to deal with it. Also good spacing means nades and stopping his pressure game. MK also keeps him in the air for days with ease which means Snake gets alot of damage really really easily.

The match goes to MK.

Eh, even without doing B moves, the only two moves MK can do against a grenade wielding Snake is Dtilt or Ftilt. Dtilt is safe on block, but I don't believe Ftilt is.

Snake kills Metaknight with everything except his own dtilt, nair (if DIed against properly), or UpB (lol). Every single one of his other moves is capable of finishing (albeit some far more likely than others, good luck landing a Fair or properly placed Dair on MK, lol)

Like I said, statistics of victory show the match-up to be in Snake's favor, but I'm unprepared to debate this. I simply don't have the knowledge and data necessary.

 

[Dpete]

Meh. Before this tech, perhaps 5 or so pages back, there was whining that "700 pages and people still don't know that Snake is the best character in the game!?! Lawl!". The bandwagon effect is terrible. And threads like this? Good grief. People need to start thinking for themselves.

In 700 pages, Ike went from being amazing to low tier. The meta-game isn't stagnant, people will adapt to "broken" characters and find ways to take advantage of their weaknesses.

And really, I haven't seen an argument for Snake over MK in a long time. Everyone knew that Snake had the advantage in his matchup with MK, so it just seemed fitting to place him higher, then move on to debate whether Yoshi should be low or bottom tier. I know that wasn't everyone's mindset, but I still think it hasn't been fully looked into for a while.

 

[SaxDude93]

I've been out of Smash while I was in Europe. Anything new happen that was important? And the chances of this happening are slim but did the SFR/SBR ever get around to issuing an (un)official tier list.

On Topic: I think Falcon is the worst in the game.

 

[chckn]

I've been out of Smash while I was in Europe. Anything new happen that was important? And the chances of this happening are slim but did the SFR/SBR ever get around to issuing an (un)official tier list.

On Topic: I think Falcon is the worst in the game.

Yeah nss came out with a fairly accurate list(probably lost in the pages of pure **** that fill this thread), but you should be able to find it. Nothing from the SBR yet, and I doubt that there will be for a while.

 

[AbsoluteZero255]

I think that Samus and Yoshi, two of my secondaries, will be very low on the tier list.

However, I think that Marth, Toon Link, and Mr. Game&Watch (my 3 fave characters, shown in my sig) will be relatively high.

 

[metalmonstar]

I've been out of Smash while I was in Europe. Anything new happen that was important? And the chances of this happening are slim but did the SFR/SBR ever get around to issuing an (un)official tier list.

On Topic: I think Falcon is the worst in the game.

NSS is too good for the SFR and has decided to go solo. The SFR is a dying rock band with a gig here or there but mostly were are just trying to live off our one hit wonder. Some of us want NSS back, others say good riddance. Then there are those that think NSS left so he could form a duet with Silverflash. The media has been really trying to sell that story.

Kaizo quit so he could get an edumacation. It hurts but we are proud that he wants to do something with his life instead of hang out in the basement and rock hardcore.

Redfish wants to be the lead singer and lead guitarist. No one seems to care so he may just get his wish.

Sonic is hanging in there but he is not sure his electric keyboard has been tuned right.

Shadowlink was all excited about being in a hip band but after like a day or two he already thinks he can do better.

Viers went MIA. The government said he is fine, but we are rebels and don't believe what the government tells us.

Sax decided to go on this Euro tour without telling anyone. Supposedly he met a lot of hot chicks and got to hang with some tight bands.


Anyway, the SFR is trying to get some stuff finished up here and there we hit a road block and from there it seems people have started to drop off. I tried to reorganize a bit but it didn't seem to bring people back. It would be nice to finish the character discussion so we can debate the tier list.

SBR is still going through there weekly character. They just did samus. The next hint sounds like it is solo popo or Nolimar but the clue is kind of vague. Also Overswarm knows when he is mentioned on a thread. Overswarm is too good. Watch he will be here.

We have been debating the same junk that was cleared up hundreds of pages earlier. It goes in cycles. I think we are on Meta over Snake right now. Next we are going to talk about why falcon isn't the worst character. After that looks to be another round of yoshi. Junk tier list that have been flamed have been continually posted. Read back a few pages. You missed lucky page 777.

That is all I can really think of.

Oh yeah, the SFR needs you.

 

[SaxDude93]

Sax decided to go on this Euro tour without telling anyone. Supposedly he met a lot of hot chicks and got to hang with some tight bands.

You sir, won this topic.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

I've been off this site for 1-3 days and will the MK AT make him better than Snake? or is it going to be banned.

 

[Blistering Speed]

It's only because Snake actually does have noticeable weaknesses that really affect his gameplay and there are situations you can put him in where he is at disadvantage.

You really can't do that to MK nor does he have serious weaknesses that opponent can directly take advantage of to beat him.

True, but while Snake has larger weaknesses, I think it is balanced by the fact that his strength's are possibly larger. The pure godliness of Grenade countering, mortars and tilts make up for it.

*Edit* @Shy Guy
It will be banned, it has to be otherwise everyone will have to play MK to win.

Woo, Smashbrothers08 put me top tier!

 

[Kiwikomix]

@ metal: Kiwi broke his drumstick and has been crying about it for around a month now.

On Topic: Have you guys noticed that MK actually has more tourney wins than Snake? Take that as popularity if you will, but I have a feeling he'll take Snake's place eventually.

 

[metalmonstar]

There are over 100 metaknights and Just about 95 Snakes. Popularity difference between those two isn't that great. Also Snake has more points even if he does have less wins. Maybe the Meta over Snake is a possibility.

I think the reason Snake was kept on top was because of his broken tilts and ATs. He has always had weak parts of his game but only a select few characters could even force Snake into vulnerable positions much less exploit his weaknesses. He camps with the best of characters.

I have won this thread like 4 times now.

 

[Emblem Lord]

NSS and SilverFlash made the two most accurate tier list.

Close this thread.