The best part is that no one cares unless you do.You don't have to win tournaments to be on a top 5 list
![Applejack :applejack: :applejack:](/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/applejack.png)
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
The best part is that no one cares unless you do.You don't have to win tournaments to be on a top 5 list
Well, actually, there are still a lot of MK legal tourneys, enough for everyone to consider either picking him up or remembering how to fight him. In addition, a few tourneys have also been banning PS2 in addition to RC and Brinstar.Most tournaments, with the destruction of the Unity Ruleset, have been banning not only MK... but Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar as well.
But D3 beats more of top and high tier than TL does, and he does waaay better against everyone below them.I think Toon link should be above DDD and DDD should be in a tier by himself
However, TL doesn't get stomped by the people above him. Most of the people below him don't matter because they are barely played (check John #'s chart. I believe the high tier and above are played %85 of the time.) I'm only counting -2 and worse matches as counters. So, Dedede has 1 higher tier counter for him (Wario) but 7 higher tier counters against him and a -3 Mu. On the other hand, TL has 1 high tier counter against him (MK) and none for him.But D3 beats more of top and high tier than TL does, and he does waaay better against everyone below them.
Having a Falco/MK will do nothing for you if you're unfamiliar with how the MU works against Yoshi specifically.no i actually have always used falco just never tried him against yoshi. and while MK is new to my roster im better with him on brinstar than i am with pit, however not the same can be said about RC. my pit owns RC.
but now that i know he can't jump outta shield and have played slush a few times and the friendlies i got in with poltergust im pretty confident that i have the basic idea of how to win with pit (my main) and if for some reason i can't properly force a bad situation with pit i will either use falco, luigi, or MK based on the stage (*****es don't know about my pocket luigi. soon to be released to the world) all of whom can really put the hurt on someone who has no true options against proper shield pressure (which im sure i will handle just fine with pit).
That's sounds like a secondary imo.It's considered a pocket character because you only pull them out for a small handful of matchups,
I think that's only because everyone slowly started associating the use of pocket characters for certain matchups with people losing, and so the distinction was lost.That's sounds like a secondary imo.
I agree TL is better than king dedede, but then again, so are Lucario and most of borderline tier + like Sonic LOLI think Toon link should be above DDD and DDD should be in a tier by himself
MK 10mksHaving a peculiar matchup spread isn't valid ground for having your own tier.
![]()
TL doesn't really lose to anyone other than MKBut D3 beats more of top and high tier than TL does, and he does waaay better against everyone below them.
MK, Snake, Falco, Wolf and Olimar beat Toon Link. Probably DDD too.TL doesn't really lose to anyone other than MK
That is stupid lolDDD is too good for mid tiers. He would dominate. He's the only character that really deserves to be in that borderline tier
Other than MK, those match ups are not that bad for TL. Also, most of the characters you just mentioned also destroy DDD and that's not including Diddy (even with TL) ICs (even or +1 for TL) and Pikachu (even with TL) just to name a fewMK, Snake, Falco, Wolf and Olimar beat Toon Link. Probably DDD too.
![]()
I wasn't wrong. Most of those match up s are -1 at worst which means he doesn't "really lose" them. His only real solid disadvantage is MKI wasn't making a comparison between TL and DDD ... I just wanted to fix your incorrect statement on TL's match-up. He doesn't beat IC at all btw that match-up is like 0 or +1 for ICs.
![]()
Accurate position > other random thingsHow is that stupid? If there where ever a reason to have a borderline tier, this would be it
Forgetting the time you lost to me at whobo 3because i have to play people like ultimate razer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlvgULiQJrA and illmatic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUA4W9m1p40 and denti http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aniZ3YMXBo and trela (didn't save any tourney vids with him) and then i run into people like good ol' tree and killik and kprime who use obscure *** characters (sheiks and pikachu, wtf) meanwhile all my friends are getting people who use snake (diska and jrugs etc) and olimar (skypirate etc) and falco and wolf and (all my favorite MUs). and this is every tournament i go too. and then when i do **** people http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XElch7YG3ZY or do pretty good against higher level players in friendlies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ5kv1PaKb4&list=UUsOy2X6gEclSCyFlDOUKBCQ&index=1&feature=plcp well it's just friendlies so no-one can pay attention to it even if they think im good.
although tbh i shouldn't be johning. i just need to get better. hence why im gonna come outta nowhere and win hobo 38 and get that extra $1000 yes sir.
IMO tink's -1s aren't like a lot of the other -1s where it was the panel arguing like hell for an even such as some other MUs (like Pika Wolf) where Wolf Panel argued for -2 vs the -3 it is. tinks -1s are actually really -1s and he loses them enough.I wasn't wrong. Most of those match up s are -1 at worst which means he doesn't "really lose" them. His only real solid disadvantage is MK
Who the hell are you to sayIMO tink's -1s aren't like a lot of the other -1s where it was the panel arguing like hell for an even such as some other MUs (like Pika Wolf) where Wolf Panel argued for -2 vs the -3 it is. tinks -1s are actually really -1s and he loses them enough.
And the snake MU should be +2, if the snake is as skilled as the tink it's hard as hell for tink to kill while snake can stop the camping game at death percent and end it. IIRC Havok and Ally both beat MJG (with MJG getting it really really close in winners v havok i think, but not in losers so much). I mean tink just cant kill a snake (especially from midstage where a good snake can DI and live from practically any earlier less than 140)
imo -4 is used so rarely other than the H tier's MUs (and D3s infinite grab MUs) you can't even consider the MU chart out of +4 to -4. It's more of a +3 to -3 thus making a -1 a lot more significant in the scale.
Seagull, re-read my post please. No editing down IIRC, when did I say WolfWho the hell are you to sayvs
is -3 for
? I don't even understand where the basis for your judgment comes from. Empirical evidence (Tournament results) supports -2. As well as theorycrafting. Only the cg even makes the matchup -2.
![]()
Peach is a significantly better character than sonic, both characters have comparable placings from the past year and a half. Peach has one of the best movesets in the game outside outside of killing options while sonic has one of the worst. Her float gives her incredible mobility and she's one of the only characters who can actually pressure shields effectively. Peach's positive matchups on IC's, pika and wario(all +1) bode very well for her in the future as well as her nearly even matchups with olimar and diddy (both -1)Also Sonic is still too low. I don't think like, ****ing Peach will ever have the level of relative success that Sonic has had in this lifetime. I know placings aren't everything but there reaches a point where you have to go "OK, maybe this actually works and people aren't just bad."
Thats the reason she isnt high tier, yes.Because she's slow and can't jump high/quickly. That's a pretty good reason.