Official BBR Tier List v7

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bubbaking

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Yeah, I guess I'll go tell him that...

It's funny cause it was actually the 4th post

Wait. Did you seriously just quote a post from the 1st page?
In case you guys didn't notice, that was actually that guy's very first post. :embarrass:

Does being a smart player really take away from a character's viability though? I mean, all it means is that you can use those character's tools REALLY well and thus that character has that potential.

Of course, if other characters haven't gotten up to that point, which is the point I think you're making, then you'd argue we shouldn't factor it in. But on the other hand, should we really take in to account something we can't measure? And remember that the tier list is only reflective of our current meta-game, not one in the future.
+1
Our tier list shouldn't be trying to predict a time where 'everyone's got Pika figured out.' It should be factoring in our current metagame and how well Pika is doing within that metagame.

Part of the reason ICs are considered top 2 in the game now compared to before is bc of ESAM.
ESAM and Vinnie are the two people who actually prove that ICs are top 2. :awesome:
 

Maharba the Mystic

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So you're telling me that ICs aren't good because their stuff is pretty hard and only a small handful can actually do all their really good stuff consistently and repeatedly in tournament at top-level? And Fox in Melee is worse than Sheik because he is tons harder to use?



But a guy has already proven that the stuff is possible so it should be considered. If no one under the sun had ever shown what he's capable of in theory, then this would make sense, but the fact that just one person has managed to do it means that it should be considered, especially if the argument is being made BY the person who's accomplishing it (and proving his points).
(referancing first paragraph vvvv)
your are confusing "hard to be good with at all" with "hard to use the amazing tools you have." fox in melee has amazing tools that are hard to use, like zero in marvel. but when you master their tools, they dominate. shiek is the wesker of melee, easier to use, simple strategy, solid tools, but not quite as good or as many as fox's/zero's tools but also not near as difficult.

also ICs chaingrabs are not hard to do at all. ICs are a fallacy and anytime people drop them they deserve to lose. now lightning loops, magneto flight combos, and tac infinites, those are hard to do.

(referancing the second paragraph vvvv)
you are saying we should include an anomaly in the statistics for pikachu when his results everywhere else are much more lacking. plus esam uses ICs as his go to for anytime something might beat the rat now. just because one person uses the tools he's got to outsmart the people around him doesn't make his character some kind of amazing. it makes him the player good. that would be like saying Tira in SC5 is top tier because the j@ps (why the **** is that censored) won evo with her. no she is low tier, he is just really good. while i don't think pika is low tier, tbh pikachu seems like a bottom of high tier or borderline tier character
 

Uncle

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There's the quality of the sword, and then there's the quality of the swordsman.

Pikachu is a great "sword," but he's not quite as "well-crafted" as MK, ICs, or Olimar, overall.

ESAM, the master swordsman that he is, does a great job of chopping the hell out of people with Pikachu, but even he has to switch to his "Ultima Weapon" (aka ICs) at times.
 

Supreme Dirt

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So guys let's talk about how good Ganondorf is.

Specifically, how he beats the other bottom tiers solidly (lol Zelda, lol Link) and can do quite well against most of low tier.

I think it's time for a change, the Ganons have shown his strength and we simply cannot deny it any longer.

Ganon for Low tier.
 

Peachy-Desu

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So guys let's talk about how good Ganondorf is.

Specifically, how he beats the other bottom tiers solidly (lol Zelda, lol Link) and can do quite well against most of low tier.

I think it's time for a change, the Ganons have shown his strength and we simply cannot deny it any longer.

Ganon for Low tier.
I agree, Ganon has rep and money. Time for Ganon to shine!

THE BISCUIT IS YOURS!
 

Luco

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I'd simply argue that the master swordsman only shows the best a sword can do. Until that stops being the case I just feel pika is fine where he is. >.>
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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All I do with Jigglypuff is look for Rest opening and go for them, I lose a lot and I dunno why. What am I doing wrong? :(

Ganon probs does fine against Jiggs.
 

Luco

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Since i'd like to expand my knowledge, how exactly do CGs work on most other chars than the PSI kids? There'd be some other way to re-grab if there was no +10 frame advantage yea?
 

bubbaking

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You need some kind of frame advantage in order to CG or chain GR someone. For instance, I believe DDD's dthrow gives him around 20 frames of advantage (not sure) so that he can get a guaranteed re-grab. Bowser's GR stuff and the PK Kids' GR mishaps are due to the fact that they give themselves their own 'built in' frame advantages and disadvantages, respectfully.

Edit: Luco, in your sig, what does "DED team" mean? :confused:
 

Luco

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Oh ah, where's my sig?

DED team means 'diddy and dixie' team, because it's believed dixie was originally planned for Brawl along with diddy (ever noticed how his banana animation looks like it could have originally been a 'slap out' animation?) as a team.

But I mean the 'PK starstorm, coming soon in 2012' part. :(
 

Luco

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Oh that's not a direct translation, can't remember what the E is exactly :p

In the DK series, when one character couldn't do something the other could, they'd slap the other kong's hand before the other kong took over. Basically like tag-teaming.
 

Supreme Dirt

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Ganon goes even with a top tier though.

Wario4trashtier

inb4warioscomeinandattempttodefendit

UAir too strong for wario
 

da K.I.D.

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ganon is one of those characters that wario can CG to forever and a kill.

In the last 4 going on 5 years, I have only seen 4 JV 4-stocks, in all of the matches I have ever seen in brawl.

one was M2K vs some scrub I think
one was Smoom's ICs vs some game and watch
one was Some IC player vs some dude playing Olimar that didnt even know how to pull pikmin.

And the last was a Japanese video of a random wario obliterating Dios Ganon
 

DMG

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At the %'s the CG works, no it's not escapable.

MU is +3ish. +4 is harsh and it's not super ez mode. Wario should not lose this MU, but to make it +3 you are doing the CG, doing the lame gimps, and not getting grabbed much (after 50%ish it's a threat to get infinited by Ganon)
 

Iota

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I'm fairly certain the CG isn't an infinite. It goes to like..80% iirc. The gimp stuff we have on Ganon is absolutely ridiculous though. I can agree to +3 or +2, definitely not +1 or +4 though.

KID who is that Wario btw? I'm interested in watching that match. :happysheep:
 
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