Official BBR Tier List v7

[Iota]

Ganon has a fairly easy tire infinite by flame choking Wario then glide toss d-throwing the tire iirc. He also has silly GR CG stuff on us.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Does he have time to glide toss > choke > regrab > glide toss?

Or is it glide toss > regrab > choke > glide toss? And does he still have time for that?

 

[Iota]

I don't know the specifics of it atm. It's been awhile since I researched it. I just know he has a silly flame choke tire infinite on us. I'll try looking it up in a bit I guess

 

[| Big D |]

It can be SDI'd hella.

The SDI multiplier on tires is stupid, it definitely isn't legit.

I would know, it broke my heart when I figured it ruined tire lock.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I think he's referring to the side-b "infinite" tech chase.

ganon can technically side-b->side-b->side-b tech chase forever. If we could just find a human with negative reaction time.

 

[Iota]

Nah..I was talking about this: http://youtu.be/xpSPp3q2oms?t=38s

If what Big D says is true then you wouldn't be able to do the run behind side-b. It's still ridiculous even if you can't though since it basically leads into f-smash at the ledge.

 

[bubbaking]

Ganon has a GR CG on Wario?

 

[Luco]

no

what even

makes you

think that

Something I heard a while ago.

I dunno, he has something that's unexplored, can't remember what it is.

 

[bubbaking]

It can be SDI'd hella.

The SDI multiplier on tires is stupid, it definitely isn't legit.

I would know, it broke my heart when I figured it ruined tire lock.

Even if it can be SDI'd, doesn't Ganon still get guaranteed kills off it? I don't see how SDI will save you from flame choke or fsmash...

 

[Iota]

Ganon has a GR CG on Wario?

Yes, he has a small step CG to dair/f-smash.

 

[Tesh]

no way in hell you can SDI to avoid his auto dash grab. its a single tire hit, its not humanly possible to get far enough away from ganon in the....60 or so frame he has to catch up to you and regrab.

 

[| Big D |]

Tires have a really large SDI multiplier, I'm unsure if you could SDI far enough to avoid the flame choke, but it's definitely with in reason to avoid a dash grab.

 

[Luco]

Tires have a really large SDI multiplier, I'm unsure if you could SDI far enough to avoid the flame choke, but it's definitely with in reason to avoid a dash grab.

I doubt it, with glide toss/small-step/etc I think Ganon would get the distance. :/

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yeah, after watching that vid, i dont see how it would be possible to avoid the regrab. MAYBE there would be enough to prevent a turnaround regrab, but regardless, ganon could still get a normal gr > fsmash

 

[bubbaking]

I think by "auto dash grab", Tesh meant flame choke. Also, it doesn't really matter if Ganon still gets a guaranteed fsmash. Could he possibly get a Wizard Punch out of that tech?

Edit: Tire lock > Punch not GR > Punch

 

[Luco]

Doubt he'd get a warlock Punch.

Then again, when things get to 100% the difference between a warlock Punch and a Fsmash becomes kinda minute.

 

[Iota]

F-smash kills somewhere between 60-70% at the ledge. If he can't get a dash grab out of the tire lock then he can still do flame choke->f-tilt/DA.

 

[bubbaking]

Or a flame choke > more tire locks > more flame chokes > ftilt/DA

Edit: But this tech requires Ganon to get his hands on a tire. All Wario has to do to avoid it is not use the bike onstage. He should only be using it offstage to recover anyway.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Good thing Wario doesn't need bike to win the MU solidly

 

[Tesh]

ganon just has to spam uair and pivot grab to beat wario

 

[Luco]

Yea but if even one tire lands in ganon's hands, all he needs to do is sideB wario, yea?

 

[Iota]

Yes, but trying to side-b Wario is about as realistic as grabbing him, I.e. you're gonna have to get a read.

 

[Luco]

Yea, fair enough.

One tire and one read. With a perfect (unfortunately there are none, I doubt even verm would be able to reliably pull this off) ganon I could see this as +/- 2 wario's favour. Since there aren't really any perfect ganons, probs a +/-3 IMO

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Ganon also has a standing air release regrab - the ledge doesn't he, or is that a infinite? More proof that Ganon is LOW TIER! :D

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Some GR re-grabs only work on Wario if he is without his bike or without his double jump.

 

[Luco]

Some GR re-grabs only work on Wario if he is without his bike or without his double jump.

Perfect way to force him to use his bike.

 

[bubbaking]

He's got a point.

 

[Iota]

I'm fairly certain ganon can't standing regrab even if Wario doesn't have a jump because he can just air dodge through it.

 

[bubbaking]

Doesn't that put Wario in a really bad position below the ledge, though (not that Ganon can do much about it)?

 

[Iota]

Not really. I don't see why Wario would be stupid enough to be without his jump anyway. If he's getting GR'd at the edge he can just bike away to avoid getting regrabbed while avoiding giving him the bike.

 

[bubbaking]

You're not getting out of this, Wario. Ganon WILL go even with you.

 

[Iota]

Never in a million years.

 

[Luco]

Well you can see Ganon is better in terms of non-viability than MK is on the other side. Why? Because at least MK has an even MU.

 

[Tesh]

Ganon has the same single even matchup MK has.


The ditto.

 

[Luco]

LOL. Okay, MK has two even MUs compared to Ganon's one.

 

[Espy Rose]

No he doesn't.

 

[Tesh]

MK must have reached a new level of dominance to be classified as 2 separate characters now.

 

[Luco]

No he doesn't.

??? What mistake did I make? Or are we talking about how the pika MU is probably actually ever so slightly in MKs favour?

 

[Iota]

I don't think anyone outside of super biased, delusional Pika mains have ever agreed with it being even.

 

[DMG]

Wait, Ganon can infinite wario?

... wtf?

Air release infinite

Ganon has a GR CG on Wario?

Yes

I'm fairly certain ganon can't standing regrab even if Wario doesn't have a jump because he can just air dodge through it.

Actually I'm nearly certain he can regrab regardless of whether we have DJ's or not. Whether he has to step forward or not I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure it works.



Small step shouldn't affect the timing, only whether he is in range to grab or not.