Official BBR Tier List v7

[pidgezero_one]

why do people still think ness is low tier

 

[RaptorTEC]

Because this thread is stupid and is used to throw out opinions just to try and look smart.

 

[deepseadiva]

The ten worst characters from worst-to-best are:



The actual tier division should be before Lucas. Him and Luigi seem distinctively more capable than everything below. So we're left with eight really bad characters in the game.

My interpretation would be more like this:



"Hyrule tier" is total garbage. Game association shouldn't drag Zelda down to second worst.

 

[Cassius.]

The ten worst characters from worst-to-best are:



The actual tier division should be before Lucas. Him and Luigi seem distinctively more capable than everything below. So we're left with eight really bad characters in the game.

My interpretation would be more like this:



"Hyrule tier" is total garbage. Game association shouldn't drag Zelda down to second worst.

well, I don't think I need to list my interpretation...

 

[Steam]

I'd say jigglypuff is a lot better than ganondorf.

like I've always felt ganondorf still deserves his own tier at the bottom.

 

[PMC66]

I'd say jigglypuff is a lot better than ganondorf.

like I've always felt ganondorf still deserves his own tier at the bottom.

agreed Ganon is just bad, he's not even up to scratch with other bottom tiers in this game.

 

[Life]

People's feelings and whether they become "infuriated" by something should never be a reason to not implement a good idea or concept.

20+ stages OSF

I'm still sad.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I main Puff

Goooooood!!!! :D

What are you talking about? You're on the panel lol.

And grim I didn't pick you because all you do is blind theory craft.

Gheb, I have many videos vs falco and high tier characters with puff.
Get your facts straight. Infact. I think falco v puff is -1 and is my best mu with her.

All I do is blind theorycraft? All you do is spam SH fair and beat bad players.

You're like the Freddie Mercury of Jigglypuff. Flamboyant front man gets all the attention while Brian May is left in the shadows.

I entered "Mink Jigglypuff" at youtube to see what I can find. There are three videos of you playing against high level players with Jigglypuff - ScaryLB59, DJ Jack and BigLou.

There are 4 videos of you against ED's Zelda, of which you lose all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCyMXTrTmS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I26pjxkJts&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SK0iREn8gU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWs9303dhRY

You claim that Falco is only -1 in your opinion but the only competent Falco you play against in those videos is DJ Jack and he nearly JV 3-stocks you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkwk3dWVMQ

You also have a set against BigLou up and looking at the 2nd match I even thought for a moment that -1 vs Diddy may not be that unrealistic until I saw game 3 where it became clear that the match-up isn't anywhere near -1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRhdZaw1zqE

So after "getting my facts straight" about what you told me I'm even more convinced now that all those random match-up numbers spewed out by deluded Jigglypuff players time and time again are nothing but wishful thinking.

I love you so ****ing much right now
I've been trying to tell people this for like... a year >_>

Well, apart from Puff being awful. Trust me, it's aaaallllll Miiiiiiiinnnnnnkkkkkkkk

Agreeing pretty wholeheartedly with Gheb over here. "Mediocre theorycraft of a nobody from who-knows-where [that hardly anybody even bothers to argue with]," hmmmmmmmm.....

Doesn't this describe you pretty accurately as well?

What? Should Nairo have done better?

Let's see, the fact that he got a low % 2-stock on game 1 despite suiciding makes me a little skeptical about how seriously he was taking the Brinstar match.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Mink: the anti hero of jigglypuff

 

[DMG]

and apparently you make men want to suck ya off rage

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's simultaneous.

Rage-job.

 

[SoulPech]

i thought i was the best puff.

for real though...what are we discussing about again? Puff MUs for GW and Falco?

I would prefer to fight a Falco than GW. Like GW is really light, but he hits Puff like a truck and is annoying to gimp. At least with Falco, you get gimp opportunities when he's offstage.

It's simultaneous.

Rage-job.

Sounds bloody, gory, and messy. *shiver*

 

[Dre89]

I don't understand why people care so much who is better than who in the lower tiers. It doesn't really matter, because all of those characters are supposedly not viable anyway.

If you're arguing that you're character is better than low tier, theorycraft doesn't achieve anything. The only thing that getting your character out of low tier does (apart from lose eligibility for LT tourneys, which is why I would never try get my character out of low tier) is that it means some people may be slightly more likely to pick up the character if they're deemed semi-viable.

Thing is though, no one is going to pick up a low tier and believe they're semi-viable because people on these boards who don't have notable tourney placements and notable wins theorycraft that they're underrated.

It just seems like people are wasting their time to me.

 

[Espy Rose]

I like to think it's for the integrity of a proper tier list.
In that sense, having a proper and justified low tier is just as important as a top tier.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Depends how angry I am, Pech.

I water down a lot of Puff's match-ups because people seem to have trouble dealing with the concept of a polar character

So deep-down I agree with -1 for Falco, but -2 is gonna be more readily accepted.

And yeah, I do it for the integrity of the list.

 

[Delta-cod]

List integrity too good.

Not like anyone hosts low tier tournaments anymore anyways.

 

[DMG]

nope cause you could do mid tier and have fun

 

[Dre89]

I like to think it's for the integrity of a proper tier list.
In that sense, having a proper and justified low tier is just as important as a top tier.

But the tier list serves to show the viability of the characters. LTs are all unviable though. With the current tier list, it really doesn't serve to pick Mario over Link for the extra viabillity if you enjoy Link as a character much more.

It would however, serve competitively if you went with Tink or Pikachu instead.

I think people have been eveloped in those discussions so long that they've lost sight of what practical purpose the list serves.

 

[Espy Rose]

LT are all not practically viable in comparison to high tiers in tournaments that don't limit characters. Mario is still more viable than Link, so if you're playing to win, he's the better choice regardless. It just so happens that there are still better choices.

If you're basing your character choice on who you enjoy more, than you shouldn't be using the tier list as a tool for choosing that character in the first place.

 

[da K.I.D.]

We should have most of these character in certain tiers just tied anyway

between sonic/ike/DK/Peach and Ganon/Puff/Link/Zelda who I feel is better or worse changes pretty much everyday because theres nothing confirmable to go on when you are looking at their relative viability. It all just boils down to 'Who's opinion do you put the most stock in' or 'what characters are being played well in your individual region.'

 

[Z'zgashi]

The ten worst characters from worst-to-best are:



The actual tier division should be before Lucas. Him and Luigi seem distinctively more capable than everything below. So we're left with eight really bad characters in the game.

My interpretation would be more like this:



"Hyrule tier" is total garbage. Game association shouldn't drag Zelda down to second worst.

Imo (from worst on) it goes:

/ / /

Luigi and Lucas are either both low mid tier or are both low tier imo. Cant really decide which tier they should go in, but regardless I think theyre very close in viability.

 

[bubbaking]

Welcome to the first person on my block list. You're too thickheaded to listen to reason and you say utterling blasphemous things.

Wow, I'm surprised that I wasn't the first one to receive that honor.

^ i'm not theorycrafting Lucas isn't mid tier even by this lists standards

This list probably isn't totally accurate. Holding entirely true to it isn't really wise, especially since it's so close to being revised anyway. Lucas may not be Low Tier by the list's standards for much longer...

My interpretation would be more like this:

I really don't think Mario is better than Samus. I mean, personally, I think Samus is better than Mario in nearly every way, except maybe kill power. Better defensive game, better survivability thanks to more weight, better recovery, better ledge game, better planking, better projectiles, better OoS game, better moveset, better range on attacks, better gimping ability. Even in kill power, Mario only really has stutter fsmash (dsmash and usmash if you don't spend time racking up damage with them). Samus has dtilt, utilt, and charge shot, the last of which can be comboed into. Samus even has much better money/popularity data.

Tl;dr - My opinion is that I really don't think Samus should be below Mario at all.

20+ stages OSF

I'm still sad.

I went to urban dictionary and I still couldn't find out what "OSF" means? Hint?

Doesn't this describe you pretty accurately as well?

I would agree with this, except everyone seems to disagree with me, and I'm not from "who-knows-where." My region is pretty well-known (and stacked), just not me.

Let's see, the fact that he got a low % 2-stock on game 1 despite suiciding makes me a little skeptical about how seriously he was taking the Brinstar match.

No johns. Besides, isn't Brinstar one of the best stages for both characters. I wouldn't be surprised if MK destroyed Jiggs everywhere else.

 

[Jimmy?]

This list is totally wrong, but you can't tell me Lucas is mid tier because on this tier list, which is totally wrong, Lucas is in low tier. Therefore he's not in mid tier and if you say otherwise you're dumb because on the first post (which is wrong), Lucas is put in low tier.

I really don't understand some people here. D:

 

[bubbaking]

I don't think anyone's saying that Lucas is Mid Tier on the current list. I think people (including me) are saying that they feel that Lucas should be higher than he currently is, which is exactly what this thread is for, no?

Edit: We disagree with the current list and we are voicing so in our opinions, hoping that it might have some kind of an effect on the future one.

 

[Cassius.]

how is samus' oos game better than Mario's?

 

[bubbaking]

IIRC, Samus's upB has 5 frames of invincibility and hits on frame 5. The move also can break shields and has pretty decent KB at high %'s. Samus also has a really great sex kick nair for OoS nair. Mario also has a sex kick nair, but Samus's has much more reach.

#StubbyLimbs

Edit: Samus can also OoS AD > zair. If the zair hits, she has followups.

 

[infiniteV115]

If you apply the word 'mid tier' to every character that is mid tier in your opinion, and everybody is allowed to do that as long as this list is considered wrong/inaccurate (and it will always be considered as such because pretty much everyone has differing opinions on character viability), then pretty much every character could be called 'mid tier' as long as there's at least 1 person who genuinely believes the character is mid tier. And this applies to every tier, so basically every character could be labelled under every tier.

Even if you disagree with a certain character's placing on the list (eg you think Lucas belongs in mid tier whereas he is in low tier on this list), that doesn't mean you can just call him a mid tier. When using 'mid tier', 'top tier', 'low tier' etc as adjectives, they are practically meaningless unless you're referring to some sort of well-established list.

 

[Jimmy?]

I was more touching on how that one guy whose name is unimportant since I forgot it is saying that everything is biased because in his opinion he's right.... and then he's like "anyone who says Lucas is mid tier is wrong because even this tier list says he's low tier."

In one post he complains about how bad the list is, then references it to prove one of his points.

.-.

 

[bubbaking]

@V115: But if we all agreed with this list and its tier boundaries, there wouldn't be any point in having a Tier List discussion thread, now would there? And as far as I know, no one has blatantly gone out and just called Lucas a Mid Tier, definitely not me. My statement before is that I believe Lucas should be in Mid Tier. I even went so far as to say that I don't understand how he isn't. I never said that he's a Mid Tier character, just that he's worthy of being one. I know to respect where he currently is and people have even pointed out that I give too much weight to the official tier list.

 

[infiniteV115]

I haven't been keeping up with the discussion, that post was solely a response to Jimmy?'s post.

I wasn't trying to imply that we should all agree 100% on any given version of the tier list, I was saying that we're gonna have to use those terms in reference to the actual list since we have to accept that we're going to disagree with each other.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, gotcha. I apologize if I interpreted your post wrongly.

Edit: Upon reading Jimmy's post though, I can see where he's coming from. PMC was like "This tier list is nothing. Disregard everything it says!" and then before you know it, he's saying "The list says Lucas is Low Tier. That's fodder for my argument that Lucas is indeed Low Tier and anyone who argues with me (and the list) must be uninformed/stupid." If you're gonna argue something, you have to be consistent in your reasoning. If there's something I absolutely must credit Gheb for, it's being nearly always consistent in his logic for debating things. One must set a precedent for how he argues these topics so that there can be consistency in our discussions.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

PMC66 is clearly a low tier poster. I'd say results strongly indicate he should be at the bottom.

Jimmy? is probably top tier. At the very least, his MU spread alone proves this.

 

[infiniteV115]

Maybe my failure to understand the reason behind Jimmy?'s post is because I have PMC66 or w/e his name is on my ignore list XD

 

[C.J.]

Based on the last couple days, Jimmy? seems to only post "stupid" things when he's showing how stupid other people are being.

I'm liking him more and more.

 

[Luco]

Haha Jimmy when i first read your post I thought you were talking about something completely different. S'pose that went right over my head *whoosh!*

Also can you believe that 5 of those 8 bottom chars are all 64 vets? The only high tier 64 vet is like, Pika and fox is borderline.

 

[bubbaking]

Fox has had his time, being Top in two games in a row. Falco's doing that now.....

Edit: And I guess Pika's getting his double Top time too now.

I don't understand why people care so much who is better than who in the lower tiers. It doesn't really matter, because all of those characters are supposedly not viable anyway.

It just seems like people are wasting their time to me.

But the tier list serves to show the viability of the characters. LTs are all unviable though.

I think people have been eveloped in those discussions so long that they've lost sight of what practical purpose the list serves.

We should have most of these character in certain tiers just tied anyway

between sonic/ike/DK/Peach and Ganon/Puff/Link/Zelda who I feel is better or worse changes pretty much everyday because theres nothing confirmable to go on when you are looking at their relative viability. It all just boils down to 'Who's opinion do you put the most stock in' or 'what characters are being played well in your individual region.'

It seems like you guys are finally starting to realize the sense in my proposal for tying bottom tier.

DI water down a lot of Puff's match-ups because people seem to have trouble dealing with the concept of a polar character

What do you mean by "polar character"?

 

[Luco]

Aww but I like a good 64 vet up there.... D:

Also I read PMC's Mario vs. Lucas post and i have to say that a lot of what you said is... bad. Bad recovery? No use for Zap jumps? PK fire being useless? I'm doing an Espy here...

What the heck did I just read?

 

[bubbaking]

Who are you saying "you" to? I seem to remember saying that Lucas's recovery is quite good. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your post.....

Edit: Nvm, I'm being paranoid. I had nothing to do with that post.

 

[Luco]

Well I was talking about you when I was talking about the 64 vets on the list.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What do you mean by "polar character"?

A lot of people think that a bad character cannot have good match-ups, and a good character cannot have bad match-ups. Even if they don't realize it, it often subconsciously influences people's perception of match-ups.

For example; Dedede doing far worse against Jigglypuff than Donkey Kong does.