Official BBR Tier List v7

[C.J.]

Every time I see Falco/Wario it always seems one sided. I'd love to hear your opinion on it/breakdown of it though.

 

[Luigi player]

Wario vs Falco is really even.

 

[DMG]

How many Wario's do you see doing the CG/doing it well? Without the CG, the MU might be 6:4 or worse. Going from roughly 60% to 120% plus Fthrow or Uthrow at the end to put Falco in a bad position is powerful.

Only time I see the MU happen in recent times though is usually Malcolm vs whatever Falco player of the day lol. Not many Falco's in other regions, and idk who Larry has to play in Cali anymore with Fiction/others gone. I haven't done the MU at a high level in quite a long time, but I do think it's pretty even.

 

[C.J.]

I rarely see the Wario players get the grab in the first place- although I'll admit the few times that they do they drop it around 95%

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Does Reflex get it on Kismet? :o I'd imagine that mu has to have happened some.

 

[DMG]

I dunno if Reflex does the CG or not. Quite a few Wario's chose not to do it because it was gay (best example being Hungr), or would only do a few regrabs instead of the full CG to be less lame. Same thing with grab release in the ditto although that's a more rare example. IDK how Reflex feels about it or how often he does it: I haven't tried to find recent Wario vs Falco/study who is CGing or not.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't know Reflex well but he doesn't seem like the type of dude who would refuse to do the CG because of it being 'gay', unless maybe he was playing a newb or something.

 

[DMG]

I mean, this IS the man who's AFRAID TO USE WARIO AND HAS TO GO PT VS PEACH!!!












Idk ask him loooool. Either way, the main point being that the MU isn't too bad because of the CG. It's the semi saving grace, besides Falco having to work up a sweat killing Wario.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I dunno if Reflex does the CG or not. Quite a few Wario's chose not to do it because it was gay (best example being Hungr), or would only do a few regrabs instead of the full CG to be less lame. Same thing with grab release in the ditto although that's a more rare example. IDK how Reflex feels about it or how often he does it: I haven't tried to find recent Wario vs Falco/study who is CGing or not.

He does it. Believe me, he does it.

 

[Dcold]

Sheik v Falco is even, she doesn't beat him.

 

[Tesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzkbG5dr6aA

 

[Kuro~]

I rarely see the Wario players get the grab in the first place- although I'll admit the few times that they do they drop it around 95%

Micaelis vs kismet.

Reflfex vs kismet.

Very good matches that show the mu.

The mu is +1 with the cg.

 

[Tesh]

^ in the above video, you can kinda see how harsh the CG can be on the 2nd stock, although he definitely didnt make much of it on the first and 3rd stocks.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Last I heard, DEHF said Kirby wins.

Sorry to nit-pic, but I figured I should mention that Kirby loses this MU. Falco out-spaces and out speeds Kirby pretty badly, as well as having lasers, jab and phantasm to keep Kirby at bay as long as he gets the percentage lead (not difficult). Kirby doesn't really have anything except a guaranteed 18% at really low percentages. That's about it. Also, I had heard the opposite about Larry's opinion, so maybe we should just leave that alone until he comments about it on the boards in quotable fashion.

 

[infiniteV115]

Kirby beats Falco 55:45.

Through the power of the internet, all is possible!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well, glad we cleared that up.

Jigglypuff beats Meta Knight 100:0

 

[BJN39]

@Grim Teusday:

Yes!

 

[#HBC | Joker]

M2K does have some pretty wild theories.

 

[GOofyGV]

yup how many characters did he say to be sacond again?


also what do you guys think about this list (only high tier and top tier) I don't really know mid and ow honestly.

Top
SS:
S:
A:

High
B:
C:

 

[BJN39]

yup how many characters did he say to be sacond again?


also what do you guys think about this list (only high tier and top tier) I don't really know mid and ow honestly.

Top
SS:
S:
A:

High
B:
C:

I actually agree with most of this.
The only thing that I might change is falco being in A tier. But otherwise this is pretty accurate IMO.

 

[Cassio]

The biggest issue I have with Marth is that at the very tip top level, his results tend to consistently fall short of his peers. Probably bc of what Nick Riddle said, but maybe for other reasons. My best guess would be that when you have lots of close MUs every round becomes a battle and trying to win those even exchanges consistently prevents the top placements some other characters have achieved.

I've also been more up on Falco lately. Larry's good oos performances and winning SoCal's two recent major events with extremely tough competition locally and out of state has me reconsidering Falco and his placement in the current metagame. I dont really think Falco loses to ICs/Pika any worse than oli loses to Falco or Snake loses to Pika. All solid -2's.

 

[infiniteV115]

I guess Oli:Falco and Snakeika are both -2 then.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I guess Oli:Falco and Snakeika are both -2 then.

The sarcasm is contagious. I wanted to, but you beat me to it.

No one would even be thinking about the possibility of Snakeika being -2 if Electircal Sam didn't turn off everything on that row of tables when he was playing Mikeray at WHOBO.

 

[Cassio]

Please enlighten me to everything you know on the snake-pika MU

More or less the thing to take away is that the MU difficulties imo are more or less the same. The only one im hesitant on is ICs/Falco, but I believe its likely true from what I've heard from Larry.

 

[infiniteV115]

Larry thinks Falcoikachu is 40:60
Esam thinks it's +2 for Pikachu (and still stood by this after friendlying Larry at SKTAR iirc)

I've only seen Larry play against Z's Pikachu and when he did, he used ICs/MK. If it was only 40:60 then why wouldn't he go Falco lol

After seeing Larry and Masha play Vinnie I could see ICs:Falco being +1, they both did fairly well against him but to be fair neither of them took a game...XD

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I've only seen Larry play against Z's Pikachu and when he did, he used ICs/MK. If it was only 40:60 then why wouldn't he go Falco lol

Because they're better MUs/less frustrating or something along those lines? o-o

 

[infiniteV115]

By that logic he would play MK a lot more

And I mean he used Falco against Vinnie's ICs at SKTAR...

 

[FooltheFlames]

Thats awesome Toon Link has moved up so much since the first Brawl tier list! People are really seeing the advantages in using him! And whats up with Metaknight up at the top still? I thought he was banned now... So how are we still getting tournament info off of him if he cant be used in any real tournament? Can somebody fill me in please?

 

[Ussi]

URC said MK is now banned
URC disbanned a few weeks later

You don't ban mk, mk ban you

 

[infiniteV115]

Pretty sure they were around for at least half a year but okay

 

[FooltheFlames]

URC said MK is now banned
URC disbanned a few weeks later

You don't ban mk, mk ban you

REALLY!?!? O_o
Wow... Im way out of touch with the smash community right now. Ive always been a fan of Melee and grew disinterested with Smash after Brawl came out, I came back to post on the boards and get back with the community with hope the new Smash game will be more like Melee. Namco makes the Soul Calibur series a pretty respectable competitive Fighting game so Im hoping they'll give Smash 4 the edge a Fighting game deserves.

 

[DEHF]

Larry thinks Falcoikachu is 40:60
Esam thinks it's +2 for Pikachu (and still stood by this after friendlying Larry at SKTAR iirc)

I've only seen Larry play against Z's Pikachu and when he did, he used ICs/MK. If it was only 40:60 then why wouldn't he go Falco lol

After seeing Larry and Masha play Vinnie I could see ICs:Falco being +1, they both did fairly well against him but to be fair neither of them took a game...XD

Esam thought Pikachu Falco was +3 for Pikachu. After we played our mm at SKTAR he changed his opinion to +2.

I have beaten Z as Falco before. I've beaten him more times as Falco than I have as MK iirc, possibly the same amount of times as each character. I use whichever character I feel more confident in playing as that day as Pikachu. If I feel my MK or ICs are playing well, then I will use them since I have a better chance of winning, otherwise I'll use Falco.

Falco ICs is +2 ICs favor. It's a difficult match up, but still winnable.

 

[Juushichi]

If I recall right, I think Judo thinks Sheik vs Falco is +1 Falco?

 

[Ussi]

Pretty sure they were around for at least half a year but okay

MK ban started 1-9-12
URC disbanded 4-17-12

Ok half of half a year, or 3 months.

 

[infiniteV115]

Well I guess I misread your initial post but technically what I said was still right XD

I didn't say MK was banned for at least half a year, I said the URC was around for at least half a year.
You should stop misreading my posts that are responses to a misread version of your posts.

 

[Tesh]

URC still announced the ban a few months before Apex.

Its a real shame too, because the BBR is such a joke and now the URC was forced out for nothing, leaving less experienced TOs in the dark.

 

[Dcold]

I don't agree with Dedede being in High Tier over say...Fox.

I also don't agree with Sheik having a +1 on Falco, Falco has things to fight against Sheik with, and so do we. If anything I'd go for like....55-45 in our favor just because of like tilts, but it's still virtually even vs. anyone that isn't bad with Falco.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Esam thought Pikachu Falco was +3 for Pikachu. After we played our mm at SKTAR he changed his opinion to +2.

I have beaten Z as Falco before. I've beaten him more times as Falco than I have as MK iirc, possibly the same amount of times as each character. I use whichever character I feel more confident in playing as that day as Pikachu. If I feel my MK or ICs are playing well, then I will use them since I have a better chance of winning, otherwise I'll use Falco.

Falco ICs is +2 ICs favor. It's a difficult match up, but still winnable.

Falco's so damn good.

 

[ShadowLink84]

URC still announced the ban a few months before Apex.

Its a real shame too, because the BBR is such a joke and now the URC was forced out for nothing, leaving less experienced TOs in the dark.

I leave for a few months and I miss the interesting stuff.

 

[SHADOWMASTER The Ultimate Smashr]

Meta Knight 4 EVER!​