Several members of the cast can SDI MK's Uair and punish him for it too.
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Official BBR Tier List v6
- Thread starter Shaya
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Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
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- 19,346
Although over 14 hours later.
Snake's jab does have frame advantage ignoring any DI someone might throw in. Jab -> Ftilt is actually a legitimate combo on certain characters. However, you have to hit with the proper part of the jab for it to work. It will either hit someone up, or slide them along the ground. I never looked into what SDI might do for the jab, but if someone doesn't bother with it, a frame advantage is still there.
His Jab -> Utilt is not. However, considering that snake's jab has a 4 frame advantage on some characters to be able to connect into a ftilt, I bet at least one character might be in stun long enough for a jab -> utilt to work. But they very well might not be.
Snake's jab does have frame advantage ignoring any DI someone might throw in. Jab -> Ftilt is actually a legitimate combo on certain characters. However, you have to hit with the proper part of the jab for it to work. It will either hit someone up, or slide them along the ground. I never looked into what SDI might do for the jab, but if someone doesn't bother with it, a frame advantage is still there.
His Jab -> Utilt is not. However, considering that snake's jab has a 4 frame advantage on some characters to be able to connect into a ftilt, I bet at least one character might be in stun long enough for a jab -> utilt to work. But they very well might not be.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
You could probably connect jab -> utilt on a lot of the cast
if they potentially have RCO lag
Shy Guy 86
Smash Ace
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- 848
Damn!! Wolf's jump is huge.
Not a bad thing, since I've always liked Wolf.
Not a bad thing, since I've always liked Wolf.
No they can't. And if they can, it's not humanly practical. Most people can't even SDI uair away to get away from the next hit. Mr. Dooms video proves it's possible, but it's not worth risking. MK has multiple options after he Uairs you, including Nair and shuttle loop. In trying to SDI a second or 3rd Uair (You're obviously not gonna SDI the first one on reaction) you risk him doing a move other than Uair, WC DIing and ending up in a worse position. In the situations that fox jabs, mashing to SDI is almost harmless because you'll get punished anyway. That's the reason SDIing a lot of moves against MK is dangerous, because you have to predict which move he's gonna use and in most situations he can use a move that will hit you vertically or horizontally, meaning if you guess wrong you either end up above him or off stage.
Jab Utilt isn't guaranteed on any character. Depending on the size of the character and which direction your opponent is holding, some characters are popped up by jab and some are punished back. If people DI away from jabs, even Jab Ftilt isn't guaranteed (maybe it is if it's frame perfect, but even good snakes whiff it when this happens). In the situation that people SDI away though, a lot of them hold shield so you can go in for a dashgrab as a mixup. However they can grab you before your Ftilt or dashgrab comes out. Seibrik does this a lot and it makes playing footsies with his MK or Dedede dangerous because you can't use jab as a hitconfirm.
Deathfox30
Smash Journeyman
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- Mar 12, 2010
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K50tAIdlAW0&feature=player_embedded
IC's are hyrule tier.
FD is a small stage.
IC's are hyrule tier.
FD is a small stage.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I've seen Ally do this a couple of times back in the day, but if one does a walking jab and slides a bit so that they get in position, I see that snake can sometimes do a standing grab w/o worrying about pushing them away from your grab. Has someone like Eternal Yoshi found whether that's guaranteed? It's a bit situational, but I see it enough to think that it warrants a closer look. If not, I might have to look at it myself.
That was pretty much my point. Falco's Jab 1 is very similar to MK's Uair in terms of frame data. Both have option-select SDIs, but it shouldn't be considered to be expected.
Blissard
Smash Lord
"Ike is actually banned from some tournaments because of his strength."
>.>
<.<
I hope it was a troll ^.^
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Somewhere San is trying to remember which random had that voice when he throttled him.
hichez50
Smash Lord
What tournaments did this scrub go to in 2008 where IKE was banned? This guy is just trolling.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Ike in S tier. Closed window. xD
Two-Ell
Smash Master
Deathfox30
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2010
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- 483
You guys should've watched long enough to hear his thoughts on Pikachu and Falco. I got a good laugh from Pikachu. :3
Frame data doesn't determine how predictable something is. Falco's Jab serves a purpose that no other move in his moveset serves. You pretty much know when Falco is gonna jab, and if he doesn't jab, you have to do realize it without risking WC DIing a kill move (and you'll have a double jump since you're on the ground to help with DI).
MK's Uair is literally too risky to SDI in some situations (plus it's far harder to SDI away from because of how much range it has).
Anyway I was talking about Fox's Jab, which is easier to SDI than Falco's because it has less range, and not as good options from cooldown (Falco has more grab range than fox as well).
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
MK could follow up with...
Another Uair.
Hrm.
Smooth Criminal
Another Uair.
Hrm.
Smooth Criminal
Conviction
Human Nature
Well damn. Idk what's funnier, that video saying MK has short range or SDI'ing MK's Uair is bad.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I wasn't aware he is edible.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
XD I didn't say that.
If the MK's smart he could predict the SDI and possibly follow up with another Uair.
Smooth Criminal
Kantrip
Kantplay
ITT: cannibalism. It's inevitable, but we're always trying to do it a little bit less.
Conviction
Human Nature
inb4theorycraftwar
we out.
we out.
John12346
Smash Master
MK can Shuttle Loop you if you SDI to the sides. True combo and everything.
You need, like, Mr. Doom SDI if you want to truly escape that.
You need, like, Mr. Doom SDI if you want to truly escape that.
Anthon1996
Smash Ace
John12346
Smash Master
That was beautiful
Brawl, if Sakurai catered to competitive players. 
... I wish.
... I wish.
Thank you someone logical.
If you try to SDI Uairs away MK will either keep Uairing (which will take you offstage), or Nair, or shuttle loop which you will West coast DI offstage because you're trying to SDI. If you're up against a good MK, you'll probably die.
Not to be a ****, but if you don't play good MKs regularly you shouldn't try to comment on the matchup concerning things like this. There's NO practical solution for getting out of Uair strings, just stay on the ground and try to keep it from happening, but sometimes it's much better to take damage than take a bad position...
Problem2
Smash Champion
The fact that Pit and Sonic are touching on the tier list probably makes Japanese players puke.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
so uh, wat happened to ROB? why is he so low? doesn't he still have both good mu's AND good results? seriously, just because other character's have started to do good, doesn't mean that ROB is all of a sudden worse than they are. he is still hella solid in all categories, and only lacks against MK. (and as i stated, while i feel he is better than where he is placed, unfortunately we pit mains haven't proven ourselves deserving of higher placement and thus his spot on the tier list actually makes sense, unlike ROB who has results and good MUs)
which brings up this idea.
since all we brawlers ever do is throw out the MK factor in everything nearly bar the tier list, why don't we make the tier list specifically to go with how well each character does against MK? i mean hell, we have pretty much started to do that already, why not just take out results (since some are obviously over-rated, however im not refering to wolf, i've always felt him to be a great character) and specifically make the tier list based off of how we base everything else in brawl off of, MK's mus? (if you don't get the point im making it's because im tipsy enough to be argumentative yet not enough to have poor spelling)
which brings up this idea.
since all we brawlers ever do is throw out the MK factor in everything nearly bar the tier list, why don't we make the tier list specifically to go with how well each character does against MK? i mean hell, we have pretty much started to do that already, why not just take out results (since some are obviously over-rated, however im not refering to wolf, i've always felt him to be a great character) and specifically make the tier list based off of how we base everything else in brawl off of, MK's mus? (if you don't get the point im making it's because im tipsy enough to be argumentative yet not enough to have poor spelling)
weegeezilla
Smash Rookie
go wolf, and agreeing at bit with samus and link
We'll just have to agree to disagree that Uair>Up-B with bad DI at very low to low % is worse than Uairx3>Nair/Up-B with decent DI at the same %.
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