Official BBR Tier List v5

[Kuro~]

Koolaid uses pit in singles now. There's even a thread and tourney proof. Kiraflax dual mains pit/rob. Uses rob for boring/unliked matchups he said.

I feel Dk as being mid C tier if fox, wolf, and such are still in C tier. If they ever move up to B (which although i think they deserve i don't see it happening cuz of crippling matchups) Then i'd see dk as high C instead. I feel peach is better overall than dk.

 

[z00ted]

You guys are overrating Wolf. He's not better than Peach or Donkey Kong and should never enter B tier.

 

[Chuee]

You guys are overrating Wolf. He's not better than Peach or Donkey Kong and should never enter B tier.

Nah I think he's better than both.

 

[deepseadiva]

Nah I think he's better than both.

Thank you for taking the time to type that.

 

[Spelt]

Meno is like that mother-in-law you just want to slap but you can't because then they wouldn't take the kids off your hands for the weekend.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys are overrating Wolf. He's not better than Peach or Donkey Kong and should never enter B tier.

Dark Peach took over Illmatics account.

Seriously, dude. What is your reasoning? Gheb told you why a while back and you didn't have anything to say back to it, other than bash yet another list that puts Wolf over Peach.

Wolf has proven to be more viable in tournament and has better MUs across the board where it counts.

 

[Chuee]

Thank you for taking the time to type that.

Thank you for taking the time to type that response.

 

[z00ted]

Dark Peach took over Illmatics account.

Seriously, dude. What is your reasoning? Gheb told you why a while back and you didn't have anything to say back to it, other than bash yet another list that puts Wolf over Peach.

Wolf has proven to be more viable in tournament and has better MUs across the board where it counts.

We should do a crew battle.

Peach vs Wolf

I'll be the leader of the Peach crew, Kain leader of wolf crew.

Illmatic, Kyle, Kyon, Nicole, Raz

vs.

Kain, Seagull, Holmes, Choice, AC

3 stocks each, 8 Minute Timer, Neutral Stages Only

Winning Team Is Placed Two Spots Above Opposing Character

 

[Deleted member]

We should do a crew battle.

Peach vs Wolf

I'll be the leader of the Peach crew, Kain leader of wolf crew.

Illmatic, Kyle, Kyon, Nicole, Raz

vs.

Kain, Seagull, Holmes, Choice, AC

3 stocks each, 8 Minute Timer, Neutral Stages Only

Winning Team Is Placed Two Spots Above Opposing Character

This would be pretty awesome, actually.

 

[Chuee]

We should do a crew battle.

Peach vs Wolf

I'll be the leader of the Peach crew, Kain leader of wolf crew.

Illmatic, Kyle, Kyon, Nicole, Raz

vs.

Kain, Seagull, Holmes, Choice, AC

3 stocks each, 8 Minute Timer, Neutral Stages Only

Winning Team Is Placed Two Spots Above Opposing Character

Thats how the tier list should be decided.

 

[z00ted]

This is how things should always be done.

But seriously Peach > Wolf. Not only does she have a lot more options in more situations but she doesn't have drastically bad matchups that are somewhat common.

Wolf can say "hi" to - and

Peach can say "hi" to - and arguably

Peach also does much better against the majority of higher tier characters when compared to Wolf.

Don't try to convince me otherwise. It's just ONE persons's opinion after all, right?

 

[Alphicans]

Wolf doesn't get ***** by falco, MK and ICs...

Wolf does better vs MK, snake, falco and marth than peach. Probably does the same vs diddy.

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf doesn't get ***** by falco, MK and ICs...

Or sheik...

I feel like we've had this discussion recently before.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

not recently, just repeatedly.

 

[z00ted]

how does Wolf NOT get ***** by those characters?

(im seriously interested)

 

[_Kain_]

how does Wolf NOT get ***** by those characters?

(im seriously interested)

LOOOOOOOOL.....man go back too 2008, ICs, Sheik, Falco and MK?

-dead-

Wolfs just camp Falco til their over CG limit, then it's pretty much a even fight. Even if they get CGed spike isn't guaranteed death.

Sheik has just a ftilt, other than that she really gets outclassed and has a hard time getting close enough to do it

ICs has nothing guaranteed. You just play a space and run fight and wolfs smashes are good at getting them into a position to be seperated. I have wins too back that up

MK...loooool...not in a mood to argue. It's not even but the MU is not bad and I know damn well it's nowhere near as bad as it is for peach.

These are just general things...Also the peaches would lose just saying. Wolfs would win badly. Get at us

Also you have your opinion but at least back it up...your not even stating reasons why you think he gets ***** by said chars...your just saying he gets *****

 

[z00ted]

Those are just (what I thought) were known as commonly bad matchups for Wolf, similar to how I posted commonly bad matchups for Peach.

I don't know anything about Wolf, rofl. I never said he got ***** either, (please don't pull a K Prime).

 

[_Kain_]

Those are just (what I thought) were known as commonly bad matchups for Wolf, similar to how I posted commonly bad matchups for Peach.

I don't know anything about Wolf, rofl. I never said he got ***** either, (please don't pull a K Prime).

LOL nah I was just wondering why you thought those MU's were bad. Wolf still has 3 MU's he gets ***** in so yeah.

 

[z00ted]

It just doesn't seem like those characters would be fun to go against as Wolf. Like in tournament, would you be happy to know that you are going against them next in bracket?

But you do have the results to back it up, so yeah. You're an exception to the character though, what do other top Wolf mains think?

> still, in my opinion.

 

[Juushichi]

The more I play against Wolf the more annoying I think the MU is. It's kind of dumb that I would rather play Mario vs Wolf than Sheik vs Wolf.

For the record, I think Wolf vs Sheik may be +1 (Sheik) or 0. What are Wolf's favorite stages anyway?

 

[_Kain_]

It just doesn't seem like those characters would be fun to go against as Wolf. Like in tournament, would you be happy to know that you are going against them next in bracket?

But you do have the results to back it up, so yeah. You're an exception to the character though, what do other top Wolf mains think?

> still, in my opinion.

You should ask them...only like 2 Wolf's really argue in here anymore so yeah.

Also, ***** please

The more I play against Wolf the more annoying I think the MU is. It's kind of dumb that I would rather play Mario vs Wolf than Sheik vs Wolf.

For the record, I think Wolf vs Sheik may be +1 (Sheik) or 0. What are Wolf's favorite stages anyway?

Against Sheik idk? Against her the matches I've had with some have just been neutrals. Lylat seems scary against her though.

 

[z00ted]

Alright Kain, why does Wolf deserve to be placed higher than Peach?

 

[da K.I.D.]

because kain wins tournaments and you dont.

 

[Tagxy]

Fox, Wolf, Sonic, DK, Peach, ROB, Kirby, Pit

Wolf, Sonic, and DK all have the results to back up such a rise. Peach and ROB do alright. Kirby and Pit....lol.

TBH I think Fox, Wolf, and DK would be no brainers for high tier if they didnt get chaingrab owned by 2 or 3 characters. However their results seem to indicate that in spite of their handicap they still do better than the Peach through Pit group.

 

[Juushichi]

You should ask them...only like 2 Wolf's really argue in here anymore so yeah.

Also, ***** please


Against Sheik idk? Against her the matches I've had with some have just been neutrals. Lylat seems scary against her though.

That makes sense. Iirc, most of my matches vs Wolf end up at PS1... though I generally like PS1. I'd probably avoid SV and FD against Wolf tbh. Try to cut down on the immediate open space for Wolf to bair me around.

I've had limited success vs Wolf on my usual CP though. Sad because I like Halberd. I can't think of any particular place where I'd take Wolf. In general a small place with low platforms.
----

Seems like Kirby's only champion right now is Y.b.M. ... who still does win tournaments here but does secondary ZSS. idk what else to say about Kirby really.

 

[z00ted]

because kain wins tournaments and you dont.

I have Gnes, Razer, and Trela at almost every tournament I attend.

That's terrible logic.

 

[Juushichi]

In spite of the strong implications of talent difference, Ill, KID is still kinda right.

Also, can't you add people like K Prime, Espy and co now? Texas is still pretty stacked.

 

[_Kain_]

Alright Kain, why does Wolf deserve to be placed higher than Peach?

IMO just seems like overall he does better against high tier then she does. She does bad against MK, Snake, Falco, and Marth. Wolf does bad against Pika, DDD, and Wario, but does ok against the most important MU MK.

That makes sense. Iirc, most of my matches vs Wolf end up at PS1... though I generally like PS1. I'd probably avoid SV and FD against Wolf tbh. Try to cut down on the immediate open space for Wolf to bair me around.

I've had limited success vs Wolf on my usual CP though. Sad because I like Halberd. I can't think of any particular place where I'd take Wolf. In general a small place with low platforms.
----

Seems like Kirby's only champion right now is Y.b.M. ... who still does win tournaments here but does secondary ZSS. idk what else to say about Kirby really.

You should try Lylat. Seriously seems like a good stage for her to me

 

[Juushichi]

I'll look into that as I play Lumi, Auspher and them this weekend then. (If it's not banned).

 

[da K.I.D.]

I have Gnes, Razer, and Trela at almost every tournament I attend.

That's terrible logic.

i bet gnes though the same thing about dojo a couple years back.

 

[Eddie G]

Ay yo, add the sleeper right here into that crew battle and throw in another Wolf to make it even. I'm like JJ Barea on the Mavericks, shortest dude on the team, but more than capable of lighting your *** up when given the slightest opening. :D

 

[Luminoth64]

Ay yo, add the sleeper right here into that crew battle and throw in another Wolf to make it even. I'm like JJ Barea on the Mavericks, shortest dude on the team, but more than capable of lighting your *** up when given the slightest opening. :D

I'd be down.

 

[clowsui]

Against Sheik idk? Against her the matches I've had with some have just been neutrals. Lylat seems scary against her though.

Lylat...angles screw up needles + recovery, layout of stage isn't particularly good for her. her gimps are pretty tight on here though, and the platform heights are pretty good. decent

 

[z00ted]

i bet gnes though the same thing about dojo a couple years back.

diddy is not peach

nah King Beef, they don't have to add anyone - I always forget about you lol

I'd drop anyone for you any day my *****, <3

 

[Gnes]

i bet gnes though the same thing about dojo a couple years back.

you'd be wrong.

 

[Ishiey]

I think both Pit and Kirby should probably not be so high and some others like Sonic and Wolf go up a bit. For Wolf, I'm still trying to wrap my head around Wolf getting around those CG tactics.

What do people think about DK? I think he might have what it takes to go up since he has been doing well in Atlantic North, which is pretty much DK land at times, too. There are the infinities and juggling, but then again Wolf has similar issues and it's not that crippling for him.

I'm a bit late, but Wolf is actually pretty solid at running away. Camp with laser, space bairs, sit on platforms and punish their aerials OoS, jumpshine > flash cancel, etc etc. Wolf has significantly more mobility than D3 so that definitely helps. Wario lacks the grab range to land the grab against a defensive Wolf imo, and his mediocre ground speed doesn't help either. Pika I don't have enough experience against to say anything conclusive :x Poor grab range, but solid mobility, idk.

DK should really go up when you look at everything he's done. Although having significant difficulty with both MK and D3 will probably hold him back from ever getting too high up in C tier imo :/

We should do a crew battle.

Peach vs Wolf

Winning Team Is Placed Two Spots Above Opposing Character

Yes.

Wolf can say "hi" to -

Fixed. Assuming that we only say "hi" to -2 or worse MUs. inb4wario

As for opinions on the other characters you listed...

MK: I think MKs could be playing a lot of MUs better, but Wolf would still be in the top third of the cast in terms of the MK MU. Shine is really good, usmash OoS is really good, laser is really good, dsmash is really good, bair is bair, etc etc. but MKs that use Tornado and SL OoS effectively can cause some difficulty imo.

Falco: What Kain said.

ICs: What Kain said, although I tend to enjoy jumping straight into their grabs >_>

Wario: Jump around a lot, space bairs well, use platforms to your advantage, and it becomes really tough for Wario to land that grab. Our aerials and shine all beat his aerials (because of their weak range/disjoint, aside from uair which is a close call), and laser is irritating for Wario to approach through. I think this MU is on the same level as our Snake MU, weight is annoying ;_;

Sheik: Don't let her get close with bairs, basically. It's not so hard, and since she can't kill you out of the tilt lock the MU is honestly no worse than neutral for Wolf imo.

 

[da K.I.D.]

you'd be wrong.

I was using sarcasm to show him the error in his thought process.

Just because someone is really good and/or wins alot presently doesnt mean you should just write them off as an auto loss when you play against them. no matter what the circumstances are. If people did do that, youd never be where you are now because you would have let dojo hold you back while he was at his prime.

 

[Orion*]

it's a really accurate list, imo

The fact that I'm even on the list tells me otherwise XDDD

I have Gnes, Razer, and Trela at almost every tournament I attend.

That's terrible logic.

No johns

 

[Judo777]

yea wolf vs sheik is a +1 MU for sheik including a 5 frame long range 25% - death move. I feel that should be a pretty good representation of how good wolf is as a character. He has decent MU's against people that can kill him with 1 hit.

When people said it they weren't kidding wolf is the worst good character. He gets gayed by crap but hes pretty freaking good at avoiding the gay. Sheik doesn't get ***** outside of the tilt lock obv (she has other pros in the MU like offstage game and good rush down not to mention better frame data) but Wolf is a pretty good character overall.

 

[Tesh]

Wolf has more options than Peach. Like airdodging.