Official BBR Tier List v5

[Gnes]

I was using sarcasm to show him the error in his thought process.

Just because someone is really good and/or wins alot presently doesnt mean you should just write them off as an auto loss when you play against them. no matter what the circumstances are. If people did do that, youd never be where you are now because you would have let dojo hold you back while he was at his prime.

Totally agree

also, razer was a much heavier mental block than dojo ever was. Just gotta get through. Young ill will learn

 

[phi1ny3]

haha yeah, I remember when you'd rant about Razer and the snake MU a looooot

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Wolf is better than Peach, but then, so is most of the cast

SFP's NEW PRO TIER LIST.

TOP:
S: MK
A: Diddy, Snake

HIGH
A-: Falco
B: Pikachu, Olimar
B-: Marth, Wario, Ice Climbers
C: Zero Suit Samus, Lucario, Game and Watch
C-: Toon Link, (Squirtle)

MIDDLE:
D: Fox, Donkey Kong, King Dedede, Wolf, Sonic, Pit
D-: Sheik, ROB, Kirby, Ike, Peach, (Charizard)
E: Lucas, Ness, Yoshi, Pokemon Trainer

LOW:
E-: Luigi, Mario, Link, Samus, (Ivysaur)
F: Captain Falcon, Bowser, Jigglypuff
F-: Zelda
G: Ganondorf

A few notes!

OK, so I don't post serious things much anymore (I admit, I usually be trollin') but this is about how I feel. I placed Wolf and Lucas about where I'd want them for the first time ever (!) because I usually prefer trolling their mains over actually posting anything about them that matters.

I'd say the most controversial things will be where I've placed King Dedede and Donkey Kong, but King Dedede loses to anyone he can't chaingrab and fails against MK. The only reason he's still high tier is because he was top once upon a time and because coney is the man.

On the other hand, I don't consider characters on the high part of mid tier to be bad tournament characters. The first tier in middle and above are characters I think are tournament viable (in the same way Doc, Samus, and Ganon are tournament viable characters in melee, in that they will show up and kick *** on occasion), although they might have some pretty lame things to deal with.

I also went with my gut on a few characters that I wasn't sure how to rank. I don't think there are enough top-level Sheik players outside of Japan to weigh results significantly, so I just felt her out and I think she's pretty good.

Finally, there are a lot of tiers because I felt it allowed for a more gradual and accurate character placement. B tier is not significantly better than B-, but they are better. Guilty Gear's tier list uses this system and I've always liked it.

Also I reserve the right to have made a few mistakes, since I'm just one guy and no one double-checked this before I posted it, obviously. I'm sure many of you will try to find like, double-standardy sort of things in here, but I really just don't care that much if for instance you think it's stupid I was willing to disregard Sheik's lack of mains but placed Jigglypuff low even though she doesn't have any and things like that. Again, I'm just one guy.

 

[z00ted]

Just because someone is really good and/or wins alot presently doesnt mean you should just write them off as an auto loss when you play against them. no matter what the circumstances are. If people did do that, youd never be where you are now because you would have let dojo hold you back while he was at his prime.

Totally agree

also, razer was a much heavier mental block than dojo ever was. Just gotta get through. Young ill will learn

I'm just stating that all of you are extremely good and it's really hard for my character to place top three in a tournament in Texas.
I'm already learning and trying everything I can and I'm definitely not johning, Orion.
Also - I was joking about the chart.

 

[Steam]

D3 being under DK is alarming. they both lose against MK just as hard... and DK has an unwinnable matchup and loses to like all of high tier.

 

[Jebu-95]

D3 being under DK is alarming. they both lose against MK just as hard... and DK has an unwinnable matchup and loses to like all of high tier.

loool
he doesnt lose to Marth, Snake, IC, Lucario, GW and he doesnt really lose to Pikachu either.
Wario has that CG on him while DK does have a few tools against Wario as well. GR Usmash or GR Punch kills around 90% or before. Wario has a hard time to get around DK's bair and he absolutely gets outranged at the ground (even tho Wario likes to stay in the air forever).

DKs bad MU's against Olimar, MK, Falco, DDD and Diddy and possibly Wario prevent him from rising to B tier though. I think that it is right to say that he has found his spot in the current tier list.

 

[Thebest1pj]

I love how i posted that swf rankings list everywhere just because it was big and messed up pages and then i come back to people being like "oshi this exist gj shadow".

Trolling not accomplished.

tl is mid tier

 

[DMG]

Wolf is better than Peach, but then, so is most of the cast

SFP's NEW PRO TIER LIST.

TOP:
S: MK
A: Diddy, Snake

HIGH
A-: Falco (Don't label a tier as +/-, label it as a new letter)

B: Pikachu, Olimar (What the hell is this? How big of a gap is there from a to a-, or from a- to B? See this is why you don't use +/- for tiers. Either way, Falco is not in a tier of his own. That would be stupid unless it were to clearly illustrate a SIGNIFICANT gap. A Tier worthy gap. Which we can assume is not the case, or it's the case and somehow Falco isn't with Diddy and Snake.)

B-: Marth, Wario, Ice Climbers (This is fine, but I don't think you have to separate each tier into 2-3 characters. Also cut the - **** out PERIOD. GG)

C: Zero Suit Samus, Lucario, Game and Watch
C-: Toon Link, (Squirtle)

MIDDLE:
D: Fox, Donkey Kong, King Dedede, Wolf, Sonic, Pit (Dedede is a better character than DK, and you should know this. Oh boo hoo Dedede loses to MK Falco IC's Olimar etc. OH **** SO DOES DK!)

D-: Sheik, ROB, Kirby, Ike, Peach, (Charizard) (Rob is better than Shiek. In fact, Rob is probably better than Pit too.)

E: Lucas, Ness, Yoshi, Pokemon Trainer

LOW:
E-: Luigi, Mario, Link, Samus, (Ivysaur)
F: Captain Falcon, Bowser, Jigglypuff

F-: Zelda (Cut this out)

G: Ganondorf (Only acceptable thing about all of this)

Added parentheses comments. Basically, your list is a mix of potential and results. Rob is worse than Shiek, Dedede under DK, etc were obvious mistakes. Doesn't take an expert theory crafter, or the average person to look at tournament results to realize you were wrong there. Rob wins more money and has more players, but Shiek is better and Rob is so bad that he's near the bottom mid of mid tier? Cmon now.



Edit: Wario is a bad MU for DK. That's kinda obvious lol. The CG is too potent because it also tends to lead into an offstage scenario where DK is above 100% and doing the CG also wastes time to build fart.

 

[Spelt]

peach next to charizard.
this post cannot contain how many lols i am feeling right now.

 

[Steam]

loool
he doesnt lose to Marth, Snake, IC, Lucario, GW and he doesnt really lose to Pikachu either.
Wario has that CG on him while DK does have a few tools against Wario as well. GR Usmash or GR Punch kills around 90% or before. Wario has a hard time to get around DK's bair and he absolutely gets outranged at the ground (even tho Wario likes to stay in the air forever).

DKs bad MU's against Olimar, MK, Falco, DDD and Diddy and possibly Wario prevent him from rising to B tier though. I think that it is right to say that he has found his spot in the current tier list.

matchup chart says he loses to everyone in high tier but Marth, GW, and Lucario. Two of them are barely high tier in the first place and all 3 of them are even matchups. DK gets wrecked by the same characters that **** D3 while D3 beats Snake, Wario, Marth, and Lucario. Though DK has been doing very good for his tier results wise and I haven't seen much of D3 at all lately other than atomsk partly using him

 

[Ripple]

matchup chart says he loses to everyone in high tier but Marth, GW, and Lucario. Two of them are barely high tier in the first place and all 3 of them are even matchups. DK gets wrecked by the same characters that **** D3 while D3 beats Snake, Wario, Marth, and Lucario. Though DK has been doing very good for his tier results wise and I haven't seen much of D3 at all lately other than atomsk partly using him

there were no DK mains in the back room when the match up chart was made

 

[Steam]

there were no DK mains in the back room when the match up chart was made

same with lucario :3

there are still no lucario users in the BBR... lol

but again... why the matchup chart can't neccecarily be trusted lol...

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

wait wait wait, i look at DKs mus for the first time and i see this.....

since when the hell does DK lose -2 to snake and diddy?! dk snake is practically even and should be a 0 from what ive seen. and diddy at worst is a -1 also from what ive seen. also, what the hell is -2 against pika and ICs? from what i've heard DK does just fine against these characters and shouldn't be more than a -1. the DK mains should go to the MU thread and debate some of their MUs because i know they have the results to back up a lot of what they say. *looks veeeerrrry hard at Will*

 

[Chuee]

loool
he doesnt lose to Marth, Snake, IC, Lucario, GW and he doesnt really lose to Pikachu either.
Wario has that CG on him while DK does have a few tools against Wario as well. GR Usmash or GR Punch kills around 90% or before. Wario has a hard time to get around DK's bair and he absolutely gets outranged at the ground (even tho Wario likes to stay in the air forever).

DKs bad MU's against Olimar, MK, Falco, DDD and Diddy and possibly Wario prevent him from rising to B tier though. I think that it is right to say that he has found his spot in the current tier list.

He definitely loses to IC and Pika, possibly snake too.
Wario is pretty bad for DK also.

 

[Steam]

wait wait wait, i look at DKs mus for the first time and i see this.....

since when the hell does DK lose -2 to snake and diddy?! dk snake is practically even and should be a 0 from what ive seen. and diddy at worst is a -1 also from what ive seen. also, what the hell is -2 against pika and ICs? from what i've heard DK does just fine against these characters and shouldn't be more than a -1. the DK mains should go to the MU thread and debate some of their MUs because i know they have the results to back up a lot of what they say. *looks veeeerrrry hard at Will*

nah, it's not that. It's just that DK mains are better. the character obviously still sucks.

/reversemarthlogic

 

[SmasherLink]

Well, Link did make it higher, and Gannon (that is his canon name) is still the worst. Unless you are as freakin' fast as me, you keep on making Ganondorf be the worst. Just wait, Link will make top tier on the list, and when the hell are Meta Knight and Snake going to change, I mean, ever since the tier list came, the two freakin' stayed at the same f***ing spot. If I were in the BBR, I would set things right, since I have most knowledge of SSB. Who do you think made the REAL tier list until his idea got stolen by SWF? The Back Rooms for the WiiU and 3DS versions of Super Smash Bros. are MINE, so don't make the BRs without my permission, or until I SAY SO!

 

[Steam]

Well, Link did make it higher, and Gannon (that is his canon name) is still the worst. Unless you are as freakin' fast as me, you keep on making Ganondorf be the worst. Just wait, Link will make top tier on the list, and when the hell are Meta Knight and Snake going to change, I mean, ever since the tier list came, the two freakin' stayed at the same f***ing spot. If I were in the BBR, I would set things right, since I have most knowledge of SSB. Who do you think made the REAL tier list until his idea got stolen by SWF? The Back Rooms for the WiiU and 3DS versions of Super Smash Bros. are MINE, so don't make the BRs without my permission, or until I SAY SO!

best post ever.

 

[SmasherLink]

Really, I bet you are just being modest! Still Link deserves to be higher, since, well, I kick ***, that is why I am a God Smasher, the best Rank you ever see, hell, you can see my wiki page, go to Smash Wiki and go to SmasherLink.

 

[Ripple]

He definitely loses to IC and Pika, possibly snake too.
Wario is pretty bad for DK also.

he definitely does not.

unless you count -1 as "definitely loses"

and I don't care what DMG says, DK will ALWAYS be in the air against wario spamming nair and up-b. he won't get the chance to chaingrab.

wario DK is even

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I respect your opinions DMG, but I want to say that I put Ganon in his own tier separate from Zelda because I wanted Ganon in G tier.

I think King Dedede is mid tier. I think DK is a better character.

I explained how I feel about Sheik, though. She could be anywhere, and there are like no Sheik players in the US that matter, so I just felt it out. It's understandable that you wouldn't agree where I placed her, and I don't really expect anyone to. If I thought my tier list would conform, I wouldn't have posted it because it wouldn't have really warranted any discussion.

I guess I troll a lot, so my opinion on tier lists is that when someone who posts here a lot and obviously knows the game at least somewhat says something like "I think Pit is better than Wario" I want to hear about it, and hear why.

I differ a little in my opinion of what a tier list actually represents, too, since in my opinion tiers don't tell the whole story. As an example, Falco loses just as bad to Pikachu as Fox does and does nearly as bad against ICs. Falco also gets 0-deathed by Sheik if he's ftilted at an early percent, which people don't talk about. But Falco is still top tier and Fox is still mid. The reason for that is because Falco is just a better character, but there's also a human element here. I don't think Falco is like 3 tiers better than Fox like he is on the current tier list.

The human element, that is, who is playing what character, matters almost as much as how good a character actually is. MK is for sure the best. Diddy and Snake are #2 and #3. Beyond that, it's muddy, and our perception of what character is good or bad, or has options and doesn't is based on who is playing them and how we see them use the character's move set, because frankly, top players are much more creative than you or me. It doesn't look like Ike has options, but san still scares and mindgames the everloving **** out of people.

It's not that black and white, is my point, I guess. TLDR: The game is a little more balanced than we think it is and how good a character is matters a lot less than who's playing the character, so tier lists are a little misleading.

 

[SmasherLink]

DK is not better than Link, or even Ganondorf for that matter, I even tested, and it came out that DK is the slowest attacking character in the game. Ganondorf is not slow, but is actually the most hit-laggiest character. Link, now that is a character you want to be. He has fast attacks, the fastest Neutral A attack (only if you press that A button fast, and I did that too), the fastest down thrust, the best UGround attack (both being fast AND powerful), which can lead to amazing combos, and, though this is VERY odd, the BEST recovery in the game. Use the bomb, let it hang, go down a ledge, use a spin attack, let the bomb explode (if it is red and you completed the spin), and do another. Note: can only happen ONCE Per Super Recovery.

 

[Sinister Slush]

DK is not better than Link, or even Ganondorf for that matter I even tested, and it came out that DK is the slowest attacking character in the game. Ganondorf is not slow, but is actually the most hit-laggiest character. Link, now that is a character you want to be. He has fast attacks, the fastest Neutral A attack (only if you press that A button fast, and I did that too), the fastest down thrust, the best UGround attack (both being fast AND powerful), which can lead to amazing combos, and, though this is VERY odd, the BEST recovery in the game. Use the bomb, let it hang, go down a ledge, use a spin attack, let the bomb explode (if it is red and you completed the spin), and do another. Note: can only happen ONCE Per Super Recovery.

...Wha What? Are you serious?
Having slow attacks doesn't mean anything, Especially when they kill most people that live till 150+% around the 90's...
Also Link is terrible, Probably even worse than Zelda.

Before I completely leave this thread yet again before the **** storm arrives.... You're trolling Right? ...Right?

 

[Steam]

shut up slush. let it take its course.

 

[SmasherLink]

How can an SSB4 creator be trolling? Link is the best and you don't know it.

 

[Death Arcana]

God is this the smasher named "smasher" from japan

 

[Tagxy]

SmasherLink your title says smash apprentice not God Smasher so there is so obvious contradiction or confusion here. I want to believe you but I dont know if I can.

Also Pikachu wrecks DK. And Falco definitely does way better vs pika than Fox or Wolf.

 

[Ripple]

Also Pikachu wrecks DK. .

bad troll is bad

 

[Reizilla]

MM my Pika vs. your Dk. $500 of tier list pride.

 

[Ripple]

MM my Pika vs. your Dk. $500 of tier list pride.

next time I'm in equestria, IT'S ON! .......like Donkey Kong

 

[Reizilla]

I could've sworn I had a Rarity gif for that.

Instead, I'll just say

 

[Thebest1pj]

D3 being mid tier is the most absurd **** i've ever heard.

 

[Tagxy]

Tier list pride matches need to be done, lol.

But Im being serious. It's a solid -2, I dont see DK having many significant advantages in this matchup aside from having a couple strong kill moves (which are fairly difficult to land on pika).

 

[Tesh]

gorillas smush rats for fun. and such a brightly colored one wouldnt even be able to hide

 

[phi1ny3]

^That's why DK dair is his most important move in the MU, right?

 

[Flayl]

I don't see Pika being able to avoid DK's DSmash for long... Not if the pika wants to do anything.

 

[Reizilla]

Anything but thunderjolt all day all day.

 

[SmasherLink]

Link
|
Pika
|
DK
|
Samus
|
Falco
|
Wolf

Descending order: Best to Worst Match-Up

 

[Pikabunz]

I wouldn't say Pika wrecks DK. Pika does have a nice fthrow cg on him and juggles him well, but DK has that range, power, and some of his moves are quick too. I believe most of Pika's smashes and aerials can be punished with just dsmash.

 

[Seagull Joe]

yea wolf vs sheik is a +1 MU for sheik including a 5 frame long range 25% - death move. I feel that should be a pretty good representation of how good wolf is as a character. He has decent MU's against people that can kill him with 1 hit.

When people said it they weren't kidding wolf is the worst good character. He gets gayed by crap but hes pretty freaking good at avoiding the gay. Sheik doesn't get ***** outside of the tilt lock obv (she has other pros in the MU like offstage game and good rush down not to mention better frame data) but Wolf is a pretty good character overall.

I said he was the worst best character. Still holds true to this day. Sonic is the best worst character.

Wolf has more options than Peach. Like airdodging.

LOL. True facts.

wait wait wait, i look at DKs mus for the first time and i see this.....

since when the hell does DK lose -2 to snake and diddy?! dk snake is practically even and should be a 0 from what ive seen. and diddy at worst is a -1 also from what ive seen. also, what the hell is -2 against pika and ICs? from what i've heard DK does just fine against these characters and shouldn't be more than a -1. the DK mains should go to the MU thread and debate some of their MUs because i know they have the results to back up a lot of what they say. *looks veeeerrrry hard at Will*

Dk is pretty bad vs Diddy. He should be even with Snake though.

Well, Link did make it higher, and Gannon (that is his canon name) is still the worst. Unless you are as freakin' fast as me, you keep on making Ganondorf be the worst. Just wait, Link will make top tier on the list, and when the hell are Meta Knight and Snake going to change, I mean, ever since the tier list came, the two freakin' stayed at the same f***ing spot. If I were in the BBR, I would set things right, since I have most knowledge of SSB. Who do you think made the REAL tier list until his idea got stolen by SWF? The Back Rooms for the WiiU and 3DS versions of Super Smash Bros. are MINE, so don't make the BRs without my permission, or until I SAY SO!

Oword?

best post ever.

I completely agree.

Really, I bet you are just being modest! Still Link deserves to be higher, since, well, I kick ***, that is why I am a God Smasher, the best Rank you ever see, hell, you can see my wiki page, go to Smash Wiki and go to SmasherLink.

Oword?

DK is not better than Link, or even Ganondorf for that matter, I even tested, and it came out that DK is the slowest attacking character in the game. Ganondorf is not slow, but is actually the most hit-laggiest character. Link, now that is a character you want to be. He has fast attacks, the fastest Neutral A attack (only if you press that A button fast, and I did that too), the fastest down thrust, the best UGround attack (both being fast AND powerful), which can lead to amazing combos, and, though this is VERY odd, the BEST recovery in the game. Use the bomb, let it hang, go down a ledge, use a spin attack, let the bomb explode (if it is red and you completed the spin), and do another. Note: can only happen ONCE Per Super Recovery.

What's a UGround attack?

How can an SSB4 creator be trolling? Link is the best and you don't know it.

We all know it, but we don't talk about it for fear of versing all the Pro Link mains in tourney.

God is this the smasher named "smasher" from japan

No sir. He is a "God Smasher". Smasher from Japan uses TL and Link and isn't known as "Smasher Link" or "God Smasher"

SmasherLink your title says smash apprentice not God Smasher so there is so obvious contradiction or confusion here. I want to believe you but I dont know if I can.

Also Pikachu wrecks DK. And Falco definitely does way better vs pika than Fox or Wolf.

Wolf>Falco>Fox in terms of his matchup with Pikachu. Wolf actually has safe moves on shield compared to Falco and Fox @__@. And he's heavy.

D3 being mid tier is the most absurd **** i've ever heard.

Indeed/

Link
|
Pika
|
DK
|
Samus
|
Falco
|
Wolf

Descending order: Best to Worst Match-Up

Link's worst matchup is Wolf? Guess I should be proud to wreck such a high tier character.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

DK is definitely not even with Snake. Wtf are you smoking.