Official BBR Tier List v5

[Leaf.]

Illmatic, that implies I have anything to teach.
Fighting me isn't anywhere near fighting K Prime.

 

[z00ted]

I've fought him countless amounts of times.

You are better at the matchup than he is.

 

[Browny]

too much pink in this thread

 

[Leaf.]

Thiiiiiiis guuuy^

Illmatic I really don't think I am, but I can't compare BECAUSE YOU WON'T GIVE ME THAT DAMN REPLAY.
And if I am better in the MU than Prime is, it's because I've fought you 10x as much as he has. If anything, I just know you.

 

[z00ted]

one replay.. compared to 2405283490230492

SPEAKING OF REPLAYS

 

[_Kain_]

OMG peach mains gtfo! That char is *** needs to move down

 

[Leaf.]

I'm not uploading them until I get the replay.

I'm looking at the video file right now.

 

[Steam]

Peach is all ***

 

[z00ted]

LEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAF I WILL GIVE YOU THE REPLAY .. JUST GIMME UPLOAD ME VS RAZER AND GNES

I WILL GIVE YOU THE REPLaY TOMORROW, I SWARE

OMG peach mains gtfo! That char is *** needs to move down

y r u always mad

 

[Spelt]

furries unite

 

[Orion*]

Hey guys.
Pikachu is better than Marth, because Pika has a better MK MU.

That is all

I would much rather play pika than marth

Funny, I remember you saying Pika MK was like 65-35 a few years ago lol.

?????

LOOOOL Illmatic results xD

EDIT2: I miss Spammer now =(

this

and none of those marths except neo were ever the top threats...

lolwut..

Stebus


10char

LMAO

^This post is full of pure win.

This

you should apologize blah blah

posting one match where you do particularly well and take that as the norm by saying you **** them is blah blah

This

You really are a piece of ego-infused work, Ill.
And K Prime overrated? You can't possibly be serious. He's still one of the most underrated players I know in Texas, right next to Smoom.

Also, you can call johns all you want, but aside from you, K Prime has pretty much no Peach practice at all. Oh, and above the fact that Castro really isn't a great example of a Peach, K Prime rarely ever had experience against him at all.

Finally, money matches don't matter here in Texas. What matters is tournament results, and according to the recent update to the Texas PR, K Prime has to have done something in order to be in the top ten players of Texas.

He's gone toe-to-toe, and even beaten some of the names you like to boast about beating all the time.

Now chill out.

LMAO
yo espy going innnnnnn

Illmatic on his way to being the next Dark Peach? Oh baby I think so!

...... It's a long and slippery slope

I only brought up my money match history because people assumed K Prime would beat me. It was practically a joke.

trolololol......................................?
na chill son that's some doodoo

furries unite

XD

 

[_Kadaj_]

and none of those marths except neo were ever the top threats...

He has to be trolling right?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Where is the idea coming from that Neo is a top threat to begin with? How many great performances did he have at noteworthy tourneys? I see his name is still being tossed around as if he were some kind of Marth messiah that needs to come back and show us the truth.

Edit: LMAO @ T

 

[Laem]

Where is the idea coming from that Neo is a top threat to begin with? How many great performances did he have at noteworthy tourneys? I see his name is still being tossed around as if he were some kind of Marth messiah that needs to come back and show us the truth.

......................

 

[Pikabunz]

[collapse=@Illmatic]Illmatic, I've always been real nice to you and said good things about you. I've always said you were one of the best Peach's and I've always thought you deserved to be higher on the TX PR and I was happy for how well you did at WHOBO3. I just really like seeing mid tier players beating top tier mains and placing high at big tournaments. I have a lot of respect for those players. Anyone that has met me knows I'm really quiet, shy, and I'm not a very confrontational person. I hardly ever ask people for friendlies even though I want to play them real bad. Yet right before your match with ESAM at WHOBO3, I went up to you and offered to play some friendlies with you so you'd have some practice for your match. I really wanted you to win. But for some reason, you do the exact opposite to me. You constantly say I'm overrated, I'm not that good, that I don't deserve to be that high on the PR, and you get salty when I win tournaments. You say these things all the time and I've always ignored it till now. I just want to know why? You obviously have something against me. Out of all the people above you on the PR, you pick out me and only me and say how I don't belong up there and how bad I am. What have I ever done to you? Why does it make you so mad that I'm ranked that high? It's not like I go around bragging about my placement on the PR. I've even admitted myself that I'm not that good and I don't deserve to be that high up. Yet you still have to keep mentioning all these things about me in the PR thread. What really set me off is that now you're exaggerating your wins against me by saying how you've beaten me so many times and how I have tons of experience in the match-up. You're really trying hard to make it sound like I'm terrible. Did you not once stop to think about what you were saying and how that would make me feel? No, you did not. You were too busy trying to make yourself sound like you're this amazing player cause that's all you think about. I feel bad enough about how people are always saying I'm terrible for losing to DEHF and Zeton. I don't need you saying I'm bad in every thread I go to. And I really am terrible at the Peach MU and I'm not using that as a john for losing to you so you can shut up about that. It's a match-up that I don't like at all and I lose in that match-up almost all the time. And If I was so bad, I wouldn't be beating players that you lose to. I know Nike, for example, beats you all the time in MMs yet I always beat Nike even though it's a bad match-up for Pikachu. What's your excuse for losing to Nike? You play him more than I've played you so you can't say you don't have the match-up experience. I'm just gonna stop here and say you're the biggest douche I've ever met and you're a terrible person. I have 0 respect for you now and don't bother talking to me at HOBO or ever. And no, I'm not gonna MM you. I dunno why you wanted to MM me, this was never really about me thinking I could beat you. I don't care about any of that, I just hate how you're always saying I'm not good and how much of a douche you act about it.[/collapse]

@KingBeef - I won't MM you, but I will play you in friendlies.

 

[Eddie G]

Sure thing, whatever you'd like. I'm just looking to make the most of my trip by playing everyone I can. :3

I mainly challenged you to one because you are part of this list that I'm aiming to complete: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=110996

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Funny, I remember you saying Pika MK was like 65-35 a few years ago lol.

Derp.

I thought pika was really average because i played against a pika that I knew too well as a person. I thought he was just a bunch of tricks you needed to learn.

Then I picked him up..

I would much rather play pika than marth

Totally not fair lol. You live in the land of top Marths. Esam is basically the only Pika in the world ATM, nevermind a specific country. (not knocking other pikas, just saying they aren't national level players)

 

[da K.I.D.]

I wasnt sure what the big deal with money matches were. I didnt think people counted those anymore, but I wasnt sure if Texas did or not.

well, based on that list he put up, id say he won more mon in mms than some of the people who actually placed in the money in tournament. so i dont see a reason to not count them.

and not to fan flames or anything, but my money is def. on ill.

Where is the idea coming from that Neo is a top threat to begin with? How many great performances did he have at noteworthy tourneys? I see his name is still being tossed around as if he were some kind of Marth messiah that needs to come back and show us the truth.

Edit: LMAO @ T

i actually have to concur with this.

[collapse=@Illmatic]Illmatic, I've always been real nice to you and said good things about you. I've always said you were one of the best Peach's and I've always thought you deserved to be higher on the TX PR and I was happy for how well you did at WHOBO3. I just really like seeing mid tier players beating top tier mains and placing high at big tournaments. I have a lot of respect for those players. Anyone that has met me knows I'm really quiet, shy, and I'm not a very confrontational person. I hardly ever ask people for friendlies even though I want to play them real bad. Yet right before your match with ESAM at WHOBO3, I went up to you and offered to play some friendlies with you so you'd have some practice for your match. I really wanted you to win. But for some reason, you do the exact opposite to me. You constantly say I'm overrated, I'm not that good, that I don't deserve to be that high on the PR, and you get salty when I win tournaments. You say these things all the time and I've always ignored it till now. I just want to know why? You obviously have something against me. Out of all the people above you on the PR, you pick out me and only me and say how I don't belong up there and how bad I am. What have I ever done to you? Why does it make you so mad that I'm ranked that high? It's not like I go around bragging about my placement on the PR. I've even admitted myself that I'm not that good and I don't deserve to be that high up. Yet you still have to keep mentioning all these things about me in the PR thread. What really set me off is that now you're exaggerating your wins against me by saying how you've beaten me so many times and how I have tons of experience in the match-up. You're really trying hard to make it sound like I'm terrible. Did you not once stop to think about what you were saying and how that would make me feel? No, you did not. You were too busy trying to make yourself sound like you're this amazing player cause that's all you think about. I feel bad enough about how people are always saying I'm terrible for losing to DEHF and Zeton. I don't need you saying I'm bad in every thread I go to. And I really am terrible at the Peach MU and I'm not using that as a john for losing to you so you can shut up about that. It's a match-up that I don't like at all and I lose in that match-up almost all the time. And If I was so bad, I wouldn't be beating players that you lose to. I know Nike, for example, beats you all the time in MMs yet I always beat Nike even though it's a bad match-up for Pikachu. What's your excuse for losing to Nike? You play him more than I've played you so you can't say you don't have the match-up experience. I'm just gonna stop here and say you're the biggest douche I've ever met and you're a terrible person. I have 0 respect for you now and don't bother talking to me at HOBO or ever. And no, I'm not gonna MM you. I dunno why you wanted to MM me, this was never really about me thinking I could beat you. I don't care about any of that, I just hate how you're always saying I'm not good and how much of a douche you act about it.[/collapse]

@KingBeef - I won't MM you, but I will play you in friendlies.

i finally understand why i like ill so much.

espy says this same type of stuff to me constantly.

 

[John12346]

Pikachu

Spoiler

ESAM 859.8
K Prime 173.6
Gallax 114
Atomsk 90
Lambnadr 70
Umbra 47.5
Anti 30
Captain L 13
DLA 11.6
Alphicans 10
Dilf 3

Peach

Spoiler

Illmatic 142.4
Kyle 108
Kyon 90
Lee 72
RedHalberd 60
Vinnie 51
Battou 36
Mikey Lenetia 35
DTP 15
lol. 11
Cheap 10.5
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two 8
SSR 7
Winnar 3.5

173.6 > 142.4 Juuust sayin'

Illmatic, stop baggin' on K Prime's skills, or alleged lack thereof
K Prime, stop taking things so personally and handle it a little more professionally

Both of you, shut up and make peace. Nothing gets me saltier than seeing people get salty over a video game, or seeing two people get mad at each other over a frivolous point.

 

[Steam]

He has to be trolling right?

show me results?

 

[MJG]

[collapse=@Illmatic]Illmatic, I've always been real nice to you and said good things about you. I've always said you were one of the best Peach's and I've always thought you deserved to be higher on the TX PR and I was happy for how well you did at WHOBO3. I just really like seeing mid tier players beating top tier mains and placing high at big tournaments. I have a lot of respect for those players. Anyone that has met me knows I'm really quiet, shy, and I'm not a very confrontational person. I hardly ever ask people for friendlies even though I want to play them real bad. Yet right before your match with ESAM at WHOBO3, I went up to you and offered to play some friendlies with you so you'd have some practice for your match. I really wanted you to win. But for some reason, you do the exact opposite to me. You constantly say I'm overrated, I'm not that good, that I don't deserve to be that high on the PR, and you get salty when I win tournaments. You say these things all the time and I've always ignored it till now. I just want to know why? You obviously have something against me. Out of all the people above you on the PR, you pick out me and only me and say how I don't belong up there and how bad I am. What have I ever done to you? Why does it make you so mad that I'm ranked that high? It's not like I go around bragging about my placement on the PR. I've even admitted myself that I'm not that good and I don't deserve to be that high up. Yet you still have to keep mentioning all these things about me in the PR thread. What really set me off is that now you're exaggerating your wins against me by saying how you've beaten me so many times and how I have tons of experience in the match-up. You're really trying hard to make it sound like I'm terrible. Did you not once stop to think about what you were saying and how that would make me feel? No, you did not. You were too busy trying to make yourself sound like you're this amazing player cause that's all you think about. I feel bad enough about how people are always saying I'm terrible for losing to DEHF and Zeton. I don't need you saying I'm bad in every thread I go to. And I really am terrible at the Peach MU and I'm not using that as a john for losing to you so you can shut up about that. It's a match-up that I don't like at all and I lose in that match-up almost all the time. And If I was so bad, I wouldn't be beating players that you lose to. I know Nike, for example, beats you all the time in MMs yet I always beat Nike even though it's a bad match-up for Pikachu. What's your excuse for losing to Nike? You play him more than I've played you so you can't say you don't have the match-up experience. I'm just gonna stop here and say you're the biggest douche I've ever met and you're a terrible person. I have 0 respect for you now and don't bother talking to me at HOBO or ever. And no, I'm not gonna MM you. I dunno why you wanted to MM me, this was never really about me thinking I could beat you. I don't care about any of that, I just hate how you're always saying I'm not good and how much of a douche you act about it.[/collapse]

@KingBeef - I won't MM you, but I will play you in friendlies.

K Prime is my new hero. **** that kid Hyro.

<3

Seriously though...I don't know K Prime that well but I didn't think it was possible for him to post this.

 

[SlashTalon]

Pardon the Interruption,

I'd like to point out that there is specificlly an exponentially more valuable debate to have in this thread that would help us all better discuss frequent elements of contention
The questions I would like to have examined are:

Are the characters being ranked strictly in relation to their base ability/potential? As in MK has many more "options" in any given scenario than Ganon, and therefore has better opportunity to space and zone without giving up too much advantage.

Even though it's hard to quantify, how much do results/usage actually get factored in? It is my understanding that results are only a small part of how the tier list is built. Too many factors go in to deciding these end results, that making a teir list based solely on the equation: (Character A placing/Character A usage) then comparing it to all other characters only opens the door for wild arguments of limited perspective.

I would say on the general scale, it can pretty much be agreed upon that certain characters "options" open abilities that transcend them above characters with limited options, or even if the opponents character has a unique tool that takes advantage of the game engine and gives them an advantage in particular matchups (see Spacies vs Pika). Should the debate then be: Do we discuss the character's potential as if both players are playing like to Level 100 computer savants, or do we take into consideration human error and nerves and rank the characters in that way? If this topic is factoring all the different Vs. combinations of Noob, Intermediate, and Pro (liberally speaking of course) that seems too broad IMO and only encourages headaches and carpal tunnel.

Another hard to define elemental debate: 1.) Easy to pick up/Hard to master. vs 2.) Just plain hard to master. For example: IMO characters like Marth, MK, and Falco fall into #1; easy to pick up and get a feel for, but to actually do well in a tourney scenario (things like game knowledge, patience, reads, and matchup experience aside) how much does actual "tech" skill involved to master the character come into play when discussing their tier location? Its also my opinion and understanding that characters such as Yoshi, Pika, and even Wario fall into #2. Does that put them lower on the tier list, seeing as more "work/deep practice" must go into learning them? To clarify I'm not saying tons of work isn't required to master EVERY character, there are plenty of scruby Mks just as their are scruby ganons. I'm merely posing the question What factors actually go into deciding how the teir list should be organized in order to acurately sum up the current metagame and allow room for evolution and growth as new discovery and undertanding about the game give light to new deliberation?


Which brings me to the most important question: Why is there not a statement in the first post taking the previous questions into consideration and defining the goal/objective of this discussion?

I just hope some others can see the overall value in having these questions answered or at least grappled with.

For the love of God and Ganon can the people get a Mission Statement?

 

[Nordal]

I know Nike, for example, beats you all the time in MMs yet I always beat Nike even though it's a bad match-up for Pikachu.

Pikachu vs. Marth is even, where's your evidence that it's a bad matchup?

I've enjoyed the delicious drama from both ends of the party, but you really should have resorted to PM's at this point. I'm surprised that out of all people you would post that publicly.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Illmatic on his way to being the next Dark Peach? Oh baby I think so!

Not even close. My son does try hard. I give him that but He aint there yet.

Btw, something I wanna start up/end. Peach>wolf. *waits for a certain ***** *** to come out and let it fly*

K Prime, I wanna play your Pika on wifi. be nice to get some experience on that match up.

 

[Nike.]

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better, and Dark Peach comes in.

HYPE.

 

[Chuee]

Dark Peach hype.

 

[Leaf.]

I don't think pika/marth was ever concluded that it was actually even, there was just talk about it that trailed off.
Maybe it was.

Prime is my hero too. But he's always been my hero.

 

[Nordal]

When I lurked the pikachu boards, I believe the discussion on the matchup was 3$@M showing the marths he's beaten (with video evidence), giving actual examples of why pikachu goes even with marth, and then all of it being washed away by pikachu mains crying "FAIR IS BR0KEN BAD MATCHUP!"

 

[Conviction]

**** just got real. Who brought Dark Peach here.

 

[Steam]

When I lurked the pikachu boards, I believe the discussion on the matchup was 3$@M showing the marths he's beaten (with video evidence), giving actual examples of why pikachu goes even with marth, and then all of it being washed away by pikachu mains crying "FAIR IS BR0KEN BAD MATCHUP!"

no all those wins were just because esam was a better player. matchup is marth adv.

obv

 

[Leaf.]

Dark Peach brings himself.

@nordal-I think that was mostly stealth.
I don't ever have problems with f-air though.
But this isn't a matchup thread.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any better, and Dark Peach comes in.

HYPE.

*****uhs is mad hype right now. Went to a big 2 day melee tourny and was going in for one who has not entered on in so long. Even took a game off of chu in pools. The way I play melee and remembered some stuff I went in on brawl. I play like a ****ing champ. 2009 Peach skills coming back to me.

Now gonna stomp out certain punk *****. Im just waiting for a certain wolf to show his face and be a douche. Im gonna roast his ***.

Ill you need to step your game up some more if you wanna get on my level to put on a drama show. Your tools are way off dude. But from what I been reading here, you really are being a creep to K prime man. That ego neds to be put to rest. I know what it is like. I been there when I was ranked 1-3 best Peach in the usa. Then get ****ed up, I went emo and people got on me hard. Kinda seeing that here. That best Peach title is slowly infecting a virus on you and making you become like this.

****ing kids man. You dont know how to have that title and take care of it. I'm gonna have to put you on punishment and take that title away from you.

 

[Spelt]

This is almost as entertaining as a tournament results thread.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Nordal thinking he knows things and telling K Prime how immature he's being for not resorting to PM's instead.
And Dark Peach posting in here after being summoned by Kain, This is gonna be Tasty fun...

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Havok still uses Marth on a pretty high level from time to time, although nowadays he's been getting Snake fever lol.

In My most recent 4th placing at FL's monthly I used marth/snake. So yeah I still use him from time to time. Probably gonna start using him more on a consistent basis

 

[Tagxy]

It's a MU that needs to be discussed. ESAM, Anther, Pikpik, Z, and several other pikas have always felt it even. Im pretty sure the marths believe it to be +1/2. Results from higher-level players seem to go in pikachus favor, but as was mentioned its generally passed of as pikachus players just being better. However theres never really been a discussion about the MU itself in quite awhile.

 

[Conviction]

Dark Peach since you are here. Where do you think Peach should be on the tier list? Since you are feeling back to your old self.

 

[Poltergust]

Sure thing, whatever you'd like. I'm just looking to make the most of my trip by playing everyone I can. :3

I mainly challenged you to one because you are part of this list that I'm aiming to complete: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=110996

I'm... not on this list?

Oh yeah, we already MM'ed at Pount V, right?

 

[Steam]

put it as even, both sides get what they want.

Pikachu mains get the even ratio they wanted

Marth mains get the fact that pikachu players are better than them since they're losing an even matchup

seems fair

 

[Eddie G]

I'm... not on this list?

Oh yeah, we already MM'ed at Pount V, right?

Indeed we did.

I don't mind another mm at all if you're game for one.