Official BBR Tier List v5

[Conviction]

Lol its soo funny because ever since that discussion all I've seen is LUIGI BEATING DIDDY every single time. To top it off these are as recent as they get.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Man the get up UpB was so pro.

 

[Tesh]

Gnes vs Boss, I don't see it going down like that.

 

[Deleted member]

DOUBLE GETUP UPBs HOLY SHEEZ

lol i think diddy still beats luigi. Boss is just a freakin fantastic player.
DID YOU SEE THOSE TECH CHASES O GOD

 

[Loota]

You call that an upB? have at you

 

[Sharky]

Gnes vs Boss, I don't see it going down like that.

nah gnes will run into a charged fsmash

 

[Orion*]

Moving your shield doesn't really help, though. The egg is still highly likely to bounce off if thrown correctly.

Heck, depending on the way you angle your shield it can be more likely to poke through it.

Maybe I'm blessed with playing characters with good shields to often then in this mu :/

only characters it gets annoying with for me is DK and sometimes snake

Not anymore. Very few people in my region suck at fighting Yoshi, lol.

/looks at time video was taken

either way I doubt oscar plays the mu correctly. he's not that kind of player he just goes by intuition and experience, which nets enough wins

 

[Delta-cod]

/looks at time video was taken

either way I doubt oscar plays the mu correctly. he's not that kind of player he just goes by intuition and experience, which nets enough wins

He was still into your uber camp at that time period. =P Nowadays he makes me want to quit whenever I play him.

 

[Poltergust]

Maybe I'm blessed with playing characters with good shields to often then in this mu :/

only characters it gets annoying with for me is DK and sometimes snake

Yeah, I guess MK's shield does fine against eggs.

Snake definitely has a problem with them, though. They tend to poke through his shield and also blow up his grenades. Does like 24% or something.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Removed due to profanity in article.

~ Red Ryu

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sorry Kid but that story used a lot of words that are censored on our forums, multiples times, had to remove it.

 

[Orion*]

Yeah, I guess MK's shield does fine against eggs.

Snake definitely has a problem with them, though. They tend to poke through his shield and also blow up his grenades. Does like 24% or something.

Yeah I tend to not keep grenades next to me like that to long because of that
I just kinda want to get them "out there" to force you to have something to worry abot and then try and get in. I don't the MUs bad in comparison to the other top tiers imo

He was still into your uber camp at that time period. =P Nowadays he makes me want to quit whenever I play him.

It makes more sense to just nado the hell out of yoshi you don't have to camp him. Well unless you want to take no risks at losing a stock in a crew battle and the match takes 14 minutes

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Nick, how does it feel to know that your precious down smash was better in 2008 than it is now with recent discoveries?

I saw this on the ZSS boards. Later there was a post from Shaya that insinuated the BBR knows something the rest of us don't. I would really like to know, since I'm already probably switching mains but some extra incentive never hurt. :D

Spill plz

 

[DMG]

It's actually something that was kinda known, but not articulated to others in the community. The people who did know, didn't explain it very well to others, and it kinda drifted away as knowledge people "should" know but didn't really know until recent times.

Crouching reduces hitlag. Which means certain hits/combos/frame advantages go away.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It's commonly thought that the stun duration is based on hitlag, but that's not true. It's based solely on damage x some number. It lasts X time at 0% and X(Y) at later percents. Mashing doesn't decrease stun time nor does crouching.

I'll concede that people SUCK at DIing the down smash launch though, like seriously people just HOLD DOWN and if she hits you while you're stunned tech, if she waits until you're launched afterwards just DI away.

Are you talking about the launch afterwards?

EDIT: Ah, I was just told that crouching takes punish time from 50 to 33 frames, so I guess I'm wrong.. I'm not sure this really does much. If you have the time to think "man I should crouch" you should just shield. Also, the only punish that takes 50 frames is dsmash x 3 to uair. The rest of them can be done in 33 frames or less.

 

[Shaya]

Actually, if you crouch zss down smash you're going from 51 frames of "stun" (its hit lag) to 33, or something.

meaning dsmash x2 > something is no longer a combo,
they can only do dsmash x1 > something.

 

[DMG]

"Yep, it sure does. ZSS's dsmash goes from 50 frames of hitlag to 33 frames."

"It reduces it's stun, yes.
At very low %s, you get out during the second d-smash so ZSS cannot follow-up. "

"Its not hitstun, its technically hitlag with 0 sdi modifier iirc. So yeah in theory will work."

As for it impacting Dsmash noticeably, I agree. You're better off shielding or not getting hit lol. But it's the implications for other moves where it gets interesting.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yeah, I just found that out. Still, I think it affects virtually nothing because if you're going to crouch you can just shield. You never get dsmash when opponents are expecting it anyway, it's too slow and telegraphed. My dsmashes are almost exclusively punishes or mix-ups these days. Who's crouching when those hit?

 

[DMG]

For that move yeah. There's no point. However, doing something like crouching at Marth when he goes for a Fair or crouching a MK Dtilt might be fun.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

For that move yeah. There's no point. However, doing something like crouching at Marth when he goes for a Fair or crouching a MK Dtilt might be fun.

Do you think you could crouch against Marth's fair at low percents and jab him or something?

Anyway, I really want to see what this "discovery" against Falcon CGs is, but honestly I'm not really holding my breath for it to affect the ZSS match.up anyway. The CG on her goes to like 30% and she can usually recover. It puts you in a pretty bad position but there are worse things.

Could ZSS crouch against Falco's jab and utilt? :\

The thing about ZSS is that her ground game is bogus because she has no guaranteed escape moves except on a few characters and she can't get guaranteed punishes when someone hits her shield because she doesn't really have a shield grab. In most match-ups you can find makeshift ways around this problem but against Falco, you REALLY JUST NEED a way to create mid-range breathing space or a shield grab and she just doesn't have one, so unless we find a way to get him into mid-range more easily it's going to be +3 forever. Even then he probably wins slightly at mid-range because dtilt is her only strong option there and he just outright beats it on a soft read, 2/3 of his options there beat dtilt, so you have to force him to use the one it doesn't... it's jsut so bad.

 

[da K.I.D.]

does your character actually have to be crouching, or does the game just have to read you as holding down when you get hit?

 

[Shaya]

you have to be crouching.
I'm not sure if the animation of going into your crouch (most characters have like a 4-5 frame one) count.

 

[John12346]

You do understand that the opponent is equally affected by the reduced hitlag, right? Nothing changes unless it's a projectile.

Marth's tipper Fsmash has 22 frames of hitlag. That means Marth + his victim are stuck for 22 frames when it connects. If the victim crouch cancels, then Marth + his victim are stuck for 14 frames each.

Nothing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Which means that it affects lasers and Zero Suit's D-Smash, I guess. Hmm.

 

[Gnes]

nah gnes will run into a charged fsmash

U play yoshi y

 

[DMG]

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

Morde es #1

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Lucario is overrated.

Discuss

 

[Chuee]

To some degree.
Aura is stupid.

 

[Poltergust]

Yeah I tend to not keep grenades next to me like that to long because of that
I just kinda want to get them "out there" to force you to have something to worry abot and then try and get in. I don't the MUs bad in comparison to the other top tiers imo

Yeah, Snake is definitely the easiest character to fight out of the top 4.

 

[Chuee]

Not for Lucas =(

 

[Sharky]

Which means that it affects lasers and Zero Suit's D-Smash, I guess. Hmm.

olimar's pikmin attacks would also be included in this iirc.

U play yoshi y

y umad tho?

 

[Yikarur]

thats what gives the crouch cancel think it's sense, the attacker is NOT affected, the one getting hit while crouching gets knockback before the attacker gets out of hitlag.
it's still now difference for weak attacks like Falcos Jab (but the down DI helps too)

 

[Meru.]

Why won't you just shield instead? In Melee I can understand if you would prefer crouch canceling over shielding due to getting little hitlag/stun/whatever and attacks on shields being much safer. In Brawl, however, the hitlag barely decreases and frame advantages on shield are rare.

 

[DEHF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdVrVrl7gg&feature=feedu

It will be very difficult for Falco to stay A tier now.

 

[Yikarur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdVrVrl7gg&feature=feedu

It will be very difficult for Falco to stay A tier now.

trololololol.

 

[NickRiddle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdVrVrl7gg&feature=feedu

It will be very difficult for Falco to stay A tier now.

I hate you.
So much.
You got me so hyped...
For being able to DI behind Falco.
The fact that people didn't already DI Falco's Dair after the spike makes me cry...
Or the fact that people didn't DI Falco's jabs SOMEWHERE.

 

[stingers]

dehf is so much like mike ross its not even funny. lol

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I thought the fact that Falco's Dthrow CG -> Spike is DIable is mad old: just that before you had to tech against the stage side. >_>

 

[Spelt]

bob ross?

 

[stingers]

they even freaking look alike. ffff