Official BBR Tier List v5

[phi1ny3]

lawl
Somebody forgetting that Japan doesn't have prize money?


Yup, all his results are now invalid seeing as he used MK like once.


:D


TKD said recently that he thinks Pika's worse now.

ok, good to know.

Any reason in particular? Then again, it's like comparing sweaty socks to a sweaty armpit, they both stink

 

[BSP]

Whobo coming up. Let's see which mid tier surprises us this time. I hope it's Peach so she can have something decent for a change.

But Sonic placing high again would be cool too.

 

[Tesh]

Whobo coming up. Let's see which mid tier surprises us this time. I hope it's Peach so she can have something decent for a change.

But Sonic placing high again would be cool too.

Espy and Illmatic HYPE!!

 

[NAKAT]

People still go at it in here?

 

[Life]

Come to think of it, it HAS been a while since the list was last updated...

 

[Brawlin]

Its been 6 months so the BBR might start making the next one after WHOBO. Peach for mid tier that surprises us at WHOBO.

 

[Tesh]

Its been like half a year, whats the big deal? They can't just make a list every couple of months with barely any new data. The longer the amount of time since Brawl's release, the longer we need to wait for new results to factor in and make a change.

 

[Orion*]

2. you have absolutely zero basis whatsoever for this statement.

I gotta be honest from watching vids.

I honestly think japan is likely the best region overall as far as their high level players go.

I don't OD on their stuff, or like you become this huge fanboy but- it's just my intuition.

 

[da K.I.D.]

orion, theres a big difference between stating it as the opinion of one guy based on a feeling with no reliable facts to back it up, (which is fine) and stating it as some inexcerable, undeniable fact that has been proven over and over. It hasnt, so trying to put it forth as such is ignorant. I think you can agree to that too.

 

[Life]

Its been like half a year, whats the big deal? They can't just make a list every couple of months with barely any new data. The longer the amount of time since Brawl's release, the longer we need to wait for new results to factor in and make a change.

Theoretically, sure. In practice, we've been getting one every six months. I'm not gonna start complaining that we don't have one, but still.

 

[Orion*]

orion, theres a big difference between stating it as the opinion of one guy based on a feeling with no reliable facts to back it up, (which is fine) and stating it as some inexcerable, undeniable fact that has been proven over and over. It hasnt, so trying to put it forth as such is ignorant. I think you can agree to that too.

Fair enough.

We all know gheb is a japan fanboy though so nothing seemed weird for me from him XD

 

[Joaco]

Snake going down?

 

[Orion*]

Snake going down?

I vote/hope so

 

[Shaya]

We've decided that due to the metagame "slowing" (you have to agree, right?) we'll be doing tier lists less often.

We're thinking every 9 months now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

orion, theres a big difference between stating it as the opinion of one guy based on a feeling with no reliable facts to back it up, (which is fine) and stating it as some inexcerable, undeniable fact that has been proven over and over. It hasnt, so trying to put it forth as such is ignorant. I think you can agree to that too.

I didn't know it was necessary to clearly label something as my own opinion in order to not have it confused with facts. Since you've seen yourself that I'm quite obviously talking about my own opinion here [based on the lack of facts as you figured yourself] I don't see how it's even necessary? Not that it surprises me that people are naturally assumed to be stupid in this thread but - believe it or not - I *can* be serious if asked.

[collapse="Some facts:"]

Sweet Pea is 4th-5th best MK in Japan [Otori, El and either Akira or Shikkoku are better] and he places 13th at Apex. Additionally he's tied for the highest placing Diddy Kong even though he's again "only" about 4th in Japan with that character [Gano, Nagahari and Tige being better]. Obviously, I'm not asking you to take these results completely at face value [I'm not claiming that Sweet Pea's Diddy is as good as Gne5] but you can definitely draw some conclusions from that:
Their MK and Diddy players are most likely at a similar level to the US players of said characters with about the same amounts of MKs on that level and *more* Diddy Kongs.

Their second best Pit has handily placed in the top 20 as well losing to @lly and - well - Sweet Pea. The "best" US Pit at that time [who uses much more MK anyway] did not make it out of pools. That's not to mention that they have a Pit above Earth's level [Masashi] and about 2 on a slightly lower level [Mao and Kokeiro]. Needless to say, their Pit's are not only "better" than the rest of the US but also to an extent where they are an actual tourney threat.

I'm not even going too deep into the Brood argument since stuff like "he lost to J@sh and Ch1bo gtfo" is inevitable. Point is that their second best Olimar has beaten your 2 best players in tournament - I don't even know to what level you have to go down in Japan to find a Snake who gets two stocked by him and solidly beaten on his own CP. Why don't you watch what Shu does to him with Snake? Hell, even Shogun does better than him and he's far away from being one of their better Snake players. Brood also consistently loses to Yui...

Of course you can break this down into little mini-quotes and argue how this and that is wrong and how X did Y to Z and therefore is better but if you look at the *sum* of what we know and add things like their Diddy Kongs being able to Naner lock infinite people [and still barely scratch top 20 anyway] into account or Rain hardly doing better there in tournament than at Apex [despite only a fraction of its entrants in japanese tourney] then it's hard to deny that they're ahead of us. Their MKs and Diddy Kongs are most likely equal to ours, while their Snake are [or at least used to be] just flat-out better. Falco on a similar level, Fox, Olimar and Pit beyond yours and don't even get me started on ICs.[/collapse]

 

[NAKAT]

*Waiting on Orion's response*

 

[Yikarur]

but they don't play for money and don't use the US Rules so you're argument is invalid

 

[~ Gheb ~]

but they don't play for money and don't use the US Rules so you're argument is invalid

OH GOOD READ /discussion

 

[Yikarur]

!!!!111

Japan is awesome, it's always awesome to watch their vids and I can agree to everything Gheb said.
I hate the discredit japan gets because they play with slightly different rules and no money =/

 

[etecoon]

it's hilarious because their rules are better to begin with. we have ****ing...pictochat and brinstar legal, and we're trying to discredit their rules? really?

 

[Matador]

it's hilarious because their rules are better to begin with. we have ****ing...pictochat and brinstar legal, and we're trying to discredit their rules? really?

I know what I was referring to was in no way trying to discredit their ruleset.

I'd love to play over in Japan instead of under our ruleset...even with the campy playstyles.

I was just saying that we have 2 different rulesets and stagelists. Not better or worse; just different. That alone sets back any kind of comparison as far as character performance goes.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Whobo coming up. Let's see which mid tier surprises us this time. I hope it's Peach so she can have something decent for a change.

But Sonic placing high again would be cool too.

Yes, I hope so too.

 

[infiniteV115]

Just wondering. People are always saying things like "Pit should be higher up, just look at how he's doing in Japan!" I don't mean that the following applies only to Pit, it applies to anything people think should be done differently, using Japan's system as an example.

How do you know the Japanese aren't going "Pit is ****ing overrated! Just look at how he's doing in North America!" or "3 stages?! ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME?! Look at how many stages the North Americans have!" I'd like to know.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I think 6 month increments are still fine, Shaya. Even if very little changes, it's nice to have the tier list updated with some frequency. I realize it is a pretty big undertaking though.

 

[da K.I.D.]

gheb, when you say things like 'japan is better than the US, this is fact' then yea... your going to have to preface that by saying its your opinion dude. if you need me too i will find the exact quote, its only 2 pages back.

and as far as your facts go, the best player of theirs that came over here, lost to a lucario that is MAYBE the 3rd best lucario in america. at this point, most people say trela and june are better than him, and zucco would be too if he hadnt quit smash for SF. so i can infer just as much as you can.

and all that really matters is that if they were really better than us, they would have won something when they were here. ps brood lost to dabuz, so saying at least that their olimars are leagues ahead is a big leap.

you cant say, japan > USA when the one time they came over here, they beat a lot of good people but didnt win. i mean... did you WATCH apex GFs? it was a fkng obliteration.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

To be honest brood is only like their second or third best Olimar, it's impossible to tell anything based on who came here.

 

[Chuee]

and as far as your facts go, the best player of theirs that came over here, lost to a lucario that is maybe the 3rd best lucario in america. At this point, most people say trela and june are better than him, and zucco would be too if he hadnt quit smash for sf. So i can infer just as much as you can.
rain isn't their best player anymore though.

and all that really matters is that if they were really better than us, they would have won something when they were here. Ps brood lost to dabuz, so saying at least that their olimars are leagues ahead is a big leap.
the japanese that came weren't even japan's best. Brood isn't even their best olimar. Oh, and funny you mention dabuz, because after apex i remember him saying stuff like brood only beat m2k because he's terrible at the mu and stuff. Yet when dabuz played m2k, m2k solidly beat him. Tbh the only olimar we have comparable to theirs is rich.

you cant say, japan > usa when the one time they came over here, they beat a lot of good people but didnt win. I mean... Did you watch apex gfs? It was a fkng obliteration.
obliteration. You mean like ally vs brood?

1234567890

 

[theunabletable]

you cant say, japan > USA when the one time they came over here, they beat a lot of good people but didnt win. i mean... did you WATCH apex GFs? it was a fkng obliteration.

And Larry gets a ****LOAD of practice with Rich all the time, so he knows that matchup insanely well.

At WGF I remember Rich complaining about the matchup being like nearly impossible against Larry, because his pocket Pikachu that he doesn't play, and can't CG with, did better against Larry than his Olimar.

Even in the interview with Larry before Apex bracket started, he was saying that he was by far most confident in the Olimar matchup.

And Brood isn't close to their best player, let alone best with his character.

I mean second best Olimar in Japan, against the best Falco in the world who happens to know the Olimar matchup (which is like Olimar's worst matchup) better than anyone...

Just make sure to take all of those facts into account when mentioning Apex GFs

Larry still *****, though

 

[Flayl]

If you look at the progression of the BBR member list the confidence they inspire (mostly tier list-wise) gets shakier and shakier.

 

[Yikarur]

you cant say, japan > USA when the one time they came over here, they beat a lot of good people but didnt win. i mean... did you WATCH apex GFs? it was a fkng obliteration.

Europe > USA because every US Guy that ever entered a european tournament didn't win


(now it's in the right thread hahaha..)

 

[da K.I.D.]

To be honest brood is only like their second or third best Olimar, it's impossible to tell anything based on who came here.

I wish we could all follow this train of thought. I agree completely.

1234567890

1. out of rain, sweet pea, brood, and earth, isnt rain the best? make sure you notice that my quote said, best of those that came here.
2. even still, saying that their olimar are far beyond ours is still incorrect.
3. nah, its was more like m2k vs brood 1, except it was like that for the entire set.

Just make sure to take all of those facts into account when mentioning Apex GFs

thats true, thats why i just like following the example put forth in the quote at the top of this post.

Europe > USA because every US Guy that ever entered a european tournament didn't win


(now it's in the right thread hahaha..)

well, youre gonna get the same responce anyway lol

i never said that US is automatically better then Europe, so you may not be wrong on that.

 

[Life]

OH EM GEE SAWNIK IZ TERRIBLE HE'S LT IN JAPAN

midoinitrite?

also, dabuz namesearched, lol

 

[-Mars-]

Lets settle this once and for all:

US>Mexico

Europe>Africa

Japan>China.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Just wondering. People are always saying things like "Pit should be higher up, just look at how he's doing in Japan!" I don't mean that the following applies only to Pit, it applies to anything people think should be done differently, using Japan's system as an example.

How do you know the Japanese aren't going "Pit is ****ing overrated! Just look at how he's doing in North America!" or "3 stages?! ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME?! Look at how many stages the North Americans have!" I'd like to know.

I would lol if they were actually doing that

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lets send X and espy to japan and watch them rage cuz they're all losing to a 'low tier'

 

[Life]

Lets send X and espy to japan and watch them rage cuz they're all losing to a 'low tier'

Yespleasethisplease.

 

[Eddie G]

Lets send X and espy to japan and watch them rage cuz they're all losing to a 'low tier'

Hmm...I don't know, top Japanese players seem much too patient to buckle to a Sonic, no matter how good the Sonic may be. You never know though, haha.

 

[Matador]

I would assume the stagelist and time limit would only negatively affect them as well.

I still expect them to perform well in that setting though.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Lets settle this once and for all:

US>Mexico

Europe>Africa

Japan>China.

Then who is better than Australia?

 

[Malcolm.O]

Lets send X and espy to japan and watch them rage cuz they're all losing to a 'low tier'

Can't really see japan raging with all the amazing Ic players they have