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Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

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mikeHAZE

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Because as I've told you a million times, it doesn't matter if good players support something or not. This point is irrefutable. ;)

lol, this is so much like the MK debates

Pro-ban: here are a million points
anti-ban: lol ur scrubs and bad. also all of that is just data, any conclusion is just opinion
pro-ban: ok, so what's your argument
anti-ban: you're bad

looooooooooooooooool
you're bad and know nothing lol



WHY SHOULD BAD PEOPLE HAVE AN OPINION IN A GAME THEY ONLY THINK THEY UNDERSTAND? APPLICATION > THEORY


this would never happen in a real profession
 

da K.I.D.

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Thanks @ everyone who replied.



I really like this counter argument, I am not at all in favor of these changes cause I've played on these stages you guys added in the earlier days of Brawl and they sucked but if some TOs run it I'll be interested in seeing the results since the meta game has grown and such because you make a legit point.

We'll see.

+ 100 respect.
 

Flayl

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ADHD

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This is something that I was hoping would happen, but due to all the madness, I completely forgot to mention it.

The only difficult part would be picking a number (lets say 2 stage bans), and having people not cry, "Why not 3?? THIS MAKES [insert character here] OVERPOWERED!"
This actually strengthens Metaknight even more than the stagelist has. While you ban two/three of his five best counterpicks, he'll ban the only two/three stages (previously coined as neutrals, or in some cases, frigate and halberd) most of the cast is viable against him on. Think about this now, in most tournament sets, where do non-metaknights counterpick Metaknight?
 

lordhelmet

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7lRmDrCDk

Right at the start of the match Legan gets killed at 50% by the spring >_>

I'm not gonna look through any other videos because I know exactly what you guys are gonna say in response. I was hoping for a PTAD video with MK vs a tether character, though.


Also,

I've seen two "and a half" videos. There is no testing going on. They're just playing normally and are missing all the opportunities to take advantage of the stage. Is this what you guys based your votes on?
 

CTX

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you're bad and know nothing lol



WHY SHOULD BAD PEOPLE HAVE AN OPINION IN A GAME THEY ONLY THINK THEY UNDERSTAND? APPLICATION > THEORY


this would never happen in a real profession
Lol
lololololol

Really? lololololol

Go watch CNN, ESPN, or any news commentary. Listen to the radio

Lolol @ you soo hard

People talk about stuff and provide theory and criticism ALL THE TIME in a professional setting

This might have been the dumbest thing said yet

EDIT: Go cry about losing to Chip more
 

Life

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So lemme get this straight.

People in favor of the new list are all terrible players.
People against the new list are all terrible debatists.

Do I have that right?
 

Crow!

Smash Lord
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@ those regions which are used to much shorter stage lists:

Tournament rules are always an evolving process, so feel free to experiment to see if you can find an improvement. For instance, you could try allowing two or three stage bans to accompany the longer-than-you're-used-to stage list and see if you like that.
 

-Ran

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There are 20 [22] possible stages in this list. Most tournaments previous to this that were at a national level [aside from MLG] were using 12 possible stages. I believe the problem with the inclusion of a wide amount of stages is that the worth of the stage ban process becomes marginalized. It becomes a matter of pick your poison. The more stages that are at a tournament, the more bans should be allowed.

22 stages wouldn't be much of an issue, if you were allowed to ban an extra one more stage during the ban process. Normally there are 7 CPs at tournaments, and in this list there are 15. Two bans seems in line with the growth of the system.
This actually strengthens Metaknight even more than the stagelist has. While you ban two/three of his five best counterpicks, he'll ban the only two/three stages (previously coined as neutrals, or in some cases, frigate and halberd) most of the cast is viable against him on. Think about this now, in most tournament sets, where do non-metaknights counterpick Metaknight?
Let's say two bans in this discussion. Three bans would be too powerful in retrospect, but two seems like it would be in line with what would be necessary for this style of stage list. Diddy being the character.
MK is going to ban FD and Smashville.
This leaves you:
Pictochat, Halberd, Battlefield, PS1, Ps2, and Port Town [he loses more than you would].
 

ADHD

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So lemme get this straight.

People in favor of the new list are all terrible players.
People against the new list are all terrible debatists.

Do I have that right?
Mmm, sort of. The good players have actually experienced what they're talking about whenit comes to stages, though. So far, I'm waiting for pro-stageban people to actually make legitimate points and I'll jump in. I'm smarter than to go against 10 anti-stageban individuals and 3 extreme stage nazis solitarily at once.
 

mikeHAZE

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Lol
lololololol

Really? lololololol

Go watch CNN, ESPN, or any news commentary. Listen to the radio

Lolol @ you soo hard

People talk about stuff and provide theory and criticism ALL THE TIME in a professional setting

This might have been the dumbest thing said yet

EDIT: Go cry about losing to Chip more
are the news people deciding the rules for the game their talking about?



at least i have to worry about losing to good players


lets watch you lose to samus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6coVnyEjuRc&feature=PlayList&p=28FF25D79551EBAA&playnext=1&index=4
 

Eddie G

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This actually strengthens Metaknight even more than the stagelist has. While you ban two/three of his five best counterpicks, he'll ban the only two/three stages (previously coined as neutrals, or in some cases, frigate and halberd) most of the cast is viable against him on. Think about this now, in most tournament sets, where do non-metaknights counterpick Metaknight?
Green Greens ma doo. Get @ dat heart shaped u-tilt and palm twisting straight up his bat-winged *** to kill at 60-70. <3

But seriously, I've never felt more comfortable fighting the ridiculous MK/Peach matchup in my life than when I took Lain there this past Saturday. The stage didn't gay either of us...at all.
 

Rob_Gambino

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Corneria: Clear ban.
Hanging out at the bottom of the wall is just too good. First person to get set up there while being ahead percents should basically never lose. Also, it is not reasonable to expect players to avoid arwings' lasers, and they deal too much damage.



Wario Ware: Clear ban.
This stage regularly hands the victory to one player or the other through pure randomness.[/COLOR]
Corneria- How is this any different than Green Greens?

1. People set up behind the walls on the sides when they're leading percents and "basically shouldn't lose." Corneria has a ledge you can grab to grab some invincibility frames to approach. On Green Greens you got nothing.

2. "It is not reasonable to expect players to avoid arwings' lasers, and they deal too much damage." It not reasonable to expect players to avoid falling bombs. At least Arwings don't give any knockback. Falling bombs give loads of damage and kill you at insanely low percents.

I can see why Corneria is too much to warrant a ban while Green Greens is not, especially by those premises. :psycho:


Wario Ware- "This stage regularly hands the victory to one player or the other through pure randomness. " How is this any different than Pictochat. The animations/hazards that come up for pictochat appear in a random order, yet you know all the types of animations. The games on Wario Ware appear in a random order, but we know all the games that are played. We all hear we need to learn the stages, so if we learned the games and won all the time it wouldn't be so random I guess.

If you believe Wario Ware randomly awards wins because of how powerful the punishments are when you lose (put yourself in bad position when you lost the game), then the same can be said for Port Town's cars, Jungle Japes Alligator, Green Greens bombs, Distant planet's man eating monster, Pirate Ship's bombs/spring/and ship itself, rainbow cruise's movement into blast zones, norfair and brinstar's lava, Frigate's rotations, Yoshi's Island Brawls falling cloud, Yoshi Island Melee's disappearing blocks, everywhere's walk off ledges.

I can't believe you guys would ban stages like Wario Ware and Corneria. The lack of stages in this list is certainly hindering the potential of competitive play in this game.:psycho:
 

MetalMusicMan

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I've seen two "and a half" videos. There is no testing going on. They're just playing normally and are missing all the opportunities to take advantage of the stage. Is this what you guys based your votes on?
No, I already stated this but I will again. It was not taken as empirical evidence in any way. It was used to foster debate on the issues that can occur. It was intended to give everyone something to talk about, a starting point, if you will.

Also, yes, some players did not know what to abuse and some did. That was the whole point-- to show that if you know the stages, you will do very well. Look at how much FAE absolutely decimates everyone... Why? He plays those stages in practice and online.

I will likely hold more such tournaments in the future to see how certain players improve after learning the maps.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7lRmDrCDk

Right at the start of the match Legan gets killed at 50% by the spring >_>
Yeah, he could have easily moved out of the way. Not a big deal. The bombs and rudder camping are the real issue with Pirate Ship and why I personally don't like it / think it should be legal. The spring being an "issue" is laughable.

I'm not gonna look through any other videos because I know exactly what you guys are gonna say in response. I was hoping for a PTAD video with MK vs a tether character, though.
Way to be open minded and open to discussion.

FAE ***** on all of those stages. You can watch him vs an MK on PTAD here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENq8nURoFc

Had you not "decided you wouldn't watch anymore because you can tell the future and know what everyone is going to say", you might have found that video as well.
 

CTX

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are the news people deciding the rules for the game their talking about?
Are the news people effecting the way that politics are being handled? Are the news people providing commentary in hopes to change the way the nation thinks and therefore how they vote? Are the news stations, biased in the way they report the news? Are they successful?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Go get ***** by Ook more

Midwest baby
 

Lore

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Let's say two bans in this discussion. Three bans would be too powerful in retrospect, but two seems like it would be in line with what would be necessary for this style of stage list. Diddy being the character.
MK is going to ban FD and Smashville.
This leaves you:
Pictochat, Halberd, Battlefield, PS1, Ps2, and Port Town [he loses more than you would].
Cool stuff.

Like I said earlier, I can't wait to see some tournament results with something like that.

Mmm, sort of. The good players have actually experienced what they're talking about whenit comes to stages, though. So far, I'm waiting for pro-stageban people to actually make legitimate points and I'll jump in. I'm smarter than to go against 10 anti-stageban individuals and 3 extreme stage nazis solitarily at once.
I would say go ahead and jump in to prove us wrong, but I see your point. I'm actually going ahead and leaving this thread; it's just getting stupid in here.

There's all sorts of wrong opinions, bad comparisons, trolling, spam, and more in here, and it hinders any real discussion.
 
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you're bad and know nothing lol



WHY SHOULD BAD PEOPLE HAVE AN OPINION IN A GAME THEY ONLY THINK THEY UNDERSTAND? APPLICATION > THEORY


this would never happen in a real profession
I didn't realize people weren't allowed to have something as simple as an opinion. However, I do agree with your last point. Application > Theory.

Now stop theorizing and try those janky stages out already!
 

mikeHAZE

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Are the news people effecting the way that politics are being handled? Are the news people providing commentary in hopes to change the way the nation thinks and therefore how they vote? Are the news stations, biased in the way they report the news? Are the successful?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Go get ***** by Ook more
Yes, but are you saying this is right?



i dont get why you keep saying to get ***** by players, are you saying that they're bad and i should not lose to them? if so, thank you :)



here's more rare footage of you losing to a samus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzgskjO3OiU&feature=related
 

ADHD

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Green Greens ma doo. Get @ dat heart shaped u-tilt and palm twisting straight up his bat-winged *** to kill at 60-70. <3

But seriously, I've never felt more comfortable fighting the ridiculous MK/Peach matchup in my life than when I took Lain there this past Saturday. The stage didn't gay either of us...at all.
Not to get you mad or anything, but everyone's said his mk is kind of.. do do.
 

mikeHAZE

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I didn't realize people weren't allowed to have something as simple as an opinion. However, I do agree with your last point. Application > Theory.

Now stop theorizing and try those janky stages out already!
well what i mean is - people can have an opinion, its just not all opinion should be weighted the same. If a random player comes in, they more than have the right to express it, but i'm not going to take is as seriously as someone who plays the game daily or places top 3.
 

BBQTV

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Are the news people effecting the way that politics are being handled? Are the news people providing commentary in hopes to change the way the nation thinks and therefore how they vote? Are the news stations, biased in the way they report the news? Are they successful?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Go get ***** by Ook more

Midwest baby
did you lose to samus? yes lololololololololol
 

Eddie G

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KBizzle: Did anybody take advantage of the invisible bomb wall glitch?
Nope, admittedly we were both too busy fighting each other and trying to keep control of the center to even worry about it. I'm just providing an example from my own experience there against a competent player, lol.

@ Wyatt- Nah I know what you mean. His MK isn't bad but it's not the best I've played either. He's still a better player than most though for sure.
 

ADHD

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@ Ran, it's a newer idea, so it would take time to test. I see it might work, but this stagelist is still very character favoring.
 

Dr. Tuen

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what kind of idiot would CP PS2 against MK?

nado 0-deaths on the flying stage...
This stage actually isn't that good for MK. Nearly every character in the game has better aerial mobility than him, and if he whiffs any of his B moves (except maybe shuttle loop, if he's positioned right), he goes into a helpless flopping animation that is held up by the wind.

He has a hard time uairing people to death on that transformation too, because of how his jumps interact with the wind. It's just not as overpowered as everyone first thought. So like most transformations in PS1, it can easily be camped till the end, if the players so choose to fight in that manner.

-Tuen
 

Crow!

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So lemme get this straight.

People in favor of the new list are all terrible players.
People against the new list are all terrible debatists.

Do I have that right?
No, this is not true. There were some very respectable posters who opposed this that or the other stage. In the end, though, for each stage you see on the Counterpick list, the points raised by those favoring a ban on that particular stage were decided by a significant majority of those in the BBR to not be sufficiently problematic to warrant a ban.

Also, there are some very respectable players who supported quite a number of the stages you see on the Counterpick list. I'd get more specific, but I don't think I'm supposed to.
 

Lore

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I'll probably leave after I say this:

Wario Ware- "This stage regularly hands the victory to one player or the other through pure randomness. " How is this any different than Pictochat. The animations/hazards that come up for pictochat appear in a random order, yet you know all the types of animations. The games on Wario Ware appear in a random order, but we know all the games that are played. We all hear we need to learn the stages, so if we learned the games and won all the time it wouldn't be so random I guess.

If you believe Wario Ware randomly awards wins because of how powerful the punishments are when you lose (put yourself in bad position when you lost the game), then the same can be said for Port Town's cars, Jungle Japes Alligator, Green Greens bombs, Distant planet's man eating monster, Pirate Ship's bombs/spring/and ship itself, rainbow cruise's movement into blast zones, norfair and brinstar's lava, Frigate's rotations, Yoshi's Island Brawls falling cloud, Yoshi Island Melee's disappearing blocks, everywhere's walk off ledges.

I can't believe you guys would ban stages like Wario Ware and Corneria. The lack of stages in this list is certainly hindering the potential of competitive play in this game.:psycho:
The problem with your argument (even if it's sarcastic) is that those stages aren't banned for those reasons.

Wario Ware gives random "awards;" both players can win, but one can get a star and the other one can get a super mushroom, which can cost the "shroomed" player a stock.

Corneria has a permanent wall, and DDD loves that.
 

ADHD

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This stage actually isn't that good for MK. Nearly every character in the game has better aerial mobility than him, and if he whiffs any of his B moves (except maybe shuttle loop, if he's positioned right), he goes into a helpless flopping animation that is held up by the wind.

He has a hard time uairing people to death on that transformation too, because of how his jumps interact with the wind. It's just not as overpowered as everyone first thought. So like most transformations in PS1, it can easily be camped till the end, if the players so choose to fight in that manner.

-Tuen
Why would you end a post with your name? So arrogant.
 

Flayl

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Nope, admittedly we were both too busy fighting each other and trying to keep control of the center to even worry about it. I'm just providing an example from my own experience there against a competent player, lol.
I wasn't asking about just you two, I meant everybody in the tournament.

It's really easy to set up, there's no excuse for "being too busy" >_>

All you have to do is explode two bomb blocks without getting hurt.
 

Vex Kasrani

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This stage actually isn't that good for MK. Nearly every character in the game has better aerial mobility than him, and if he whiffs any of his B moves (except maybe shuttle loop, if he's positioned right), he goes into a helpless flopping animation that is held up by the wind.

He has a hard time uairing people to death on that transformation too, because of how his jumps interact with the wind. It's just not as overpowered as everyone first thought. So like most transformations in PS1, it can easily be camped till the end, if the players so choose to fight in that manner.

-Tuen
woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, are you serious or are you trolling?
 

CTX

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i see no tears coming from the likes of Mr. Haze.
Ask Dphat if he agrees with you.

EDIT: haze knows what im talkin about lol

EDIT2: I may suck at this game, but I don't run out of the room crying about when a room full of people are laughing at me
 
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