Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

[gallax]

plus all of the new CP stages were in CP/banned before, I don't understand how you can just decide to upgrade them by pure theory when we can't do the opposite.

It was not pure theory in which we "upgraded" them. Thats a bad term anyways to use. We tested it out and found no obviously broken aspect to the stages

 

[gallax]

Yeah, no. I'm sure between the 80+ members you have in the BBR someone can host an event with this rule set where money is on the line in a competitive environment and see how it goes, not just keep giving us the same in theory bull****.

If im not mistaken some people actually hosted a tourney that were in the sbr where only the stages being considered for addition, like PTAD and PS2, were to be used. I myself tested some of the stages out with some friends and still found them to be useful for tourney.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

So you want us to be your lab rats for some of these terrible stages in competitive play? Yeah, no. I'm sure between the 80+ members you have in the BBR someone can host an event with this rule set where money is on the line in a competitive environment and see how it goes, not just keep giving us the same in theory bull****.

We are all, as a community, responsible for fairly testing things and giving them a chance before arbitrarily deciding to remove elements from the game.

It wouldn't be fair for us to demand that you be our lab rats, and we don't demand that and never have. It's not any more fair for you to expect that we would some how be able to do the same, however.



Nonetheless, I DID do such testing and held a practice tournament on only "gay" stages. You are welcome to view it here: http://www.youtube.com/user/MetalMusicMan04#grid/user/4C844C810AE48743

It's not empirical evidence by any means, but it should be obvious that many of the stages are not an issue. I thought some of them were, but my personal opinion is irrelevant, as the majority vote is what wins.


The fact is that most of those stages were never given a chance, and there really isn't anything glaringly wrong with any of them, so they were not banned. It's as simple as that.

Innocent until prove guilty.

 

[lordhelmet]

It was not pure theory in which we "upgraded" them. Thats a bad term anyways to use. We tested it out and found no obviously broken aspect to the stages

You must not have tested very well

 

[Lore]

So you want us to be your lab rats for some of these terrible stages in competitive play? Yeah, no. I'm sure between the 80+ members you have in the BBR someone can host an event with this rule set where money is on the line in a competitive environment and see how it goes, not just keep giving us the same in theory bull****.

Of course! One event will definitely prove that a stage is broken, especially if all the players are really good at the game and not an average player!

More events equals more data, and it also equals more data from average players. These rules apply to them too, you know.

@Lordhelmet: Prove it.

 

[ADHD]

It really isn't at all.

Name ONE good player who supports terrible stages.

This point is unrefutable.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You must not have tested very well

LOL. What do you know that they don't?

 

[gallax]

You must not have tested very well

I would rather you have a debate with me instead of trolling please. Trolling gets nothing accomplished.

 

[Steam]

*points at Overswam, glares at Jack Picklesworth*

You have to many stage nazis, I'm sorry. They're willing to refute ANY given evidence until the point where the evidence is "BUT THE STAGE ROTATES, AND LAUNCHES 500 LEGENDARY POKEMON AT ONCE."

BUT IF IT SHOOTS 499 LEGENDARY POKEMON IT SHOULD BE LEGAL

ja

 

[Prawn]

basically everything thats been said here

bbr is awful

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Name ONE good player who supports terrible stages.

This point is unrefutable.

There are 1000 things wrong with this post. As usual, you're pretty much "box of rocks" status.

 

[John12346]

There is no proof in that thread. Only theory without application. It's technically possible to do many things based solely on frame data, that doesn't mean it is actually possible, though. This is true in pretty much every game, including Brawl.

Yeah, but can we at least just notice the fact that, from the ledge, drop down Uair to second jump Uair really isn't that hard to input? Even in rapid succession?

For crud's sake, I don't even use MK and I was able to do it for 3 minutes flat on my first try.

 

[WindMajor]

So you want us to be your lab rats for some of these terrible stages in competitive play? Yeah, no. I'm sure between the 80+ members you have in the BBR someone can host an event with this rule set where money is on the line in a competitive environment and see how it goes, not just keep giving us the same in theory bull****.

Yes, I want you to be a lab rat.

Because like you said, you don't want any "in theory bull****." Well, same here. We don't want any of your "in theory bull****." We want proof.

 

[Crow!]

So you want us to be your lab rats for some of these terrible stages in competitive play? Yeah, no. I'm sure between the 80+ members you have in the BBR someone can host an event with this rule set where money is on the line in a competitive environment and see how it goes, not just keep giving us the same in theory bull****.

Metal Music Man ran a "Gay stages" tournament in order to put things to the test. He reported back with many videos showing competitive play on some of the stages we were actively debating at the time, specifically to further bridge the gap between theory and practice as is the concern in the post quoted above.

 

[gallax]

Name ONE good player who supports terrible stages.

This point is unrefutable.

You dont know who votes what for the stages. I know for a fact what m2k and ally voted for. Are they good players? If they arent then you must be bad as well for losing to them.

 

[ADHD]

There are 1000 things wrong with this post. As usual, you're pretty much "box of rocks" status.

Please provide evidence, insulting my post does nothing.

 

[lordhelmet]

Metal Music Man ran a "Gay stages" tournament in order to put things to the test. He reported back with many videos showing competitive play on some of the stages we were actively debating at the time, specifically to further bridge the gap between theory and practice as is the concern in the post quoted above.

Please post the videos I would like to see them

 

[Steam]

There is no proof in that thread. Only theory without application. It's technically possible to do many things based solely on frame data, that doesn't mean it is actually possible, though. This is true in pretty much every game, including Brawl.

theory without application... isn't that BBR's slogan or something?

 

[MarKO X]

Yes, I want you to be a lab rat.

Because like you said, you don't want any "in theory bull****. Well, same here. We don't want any of your "in theory bull****. We want proof.

says the community that immediately said "no items in tourney plz." when Brawl came out.

says the community that said, "planking is broken, LGL plz," when plank first did it.

says the community that arbitrarily chooses what in game decisions are cool for competition (ganoncide/bowsercide vs. sudden death).

 

[Crow!]

The following is a playlist from MMM's youtube account. I believe it is what you are looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MetalMusicMan04#grid/user/4C844C810AE48743

 

[gallax]

Please post the videos I would like to see them

Please provide your vids too that shows their "broken-ness".

 

[ADHD]

No one has given any names yet..

I'm getting closer to victory, it is my destiny.

 

[xDD-Master]

Shouldnt it be...

Starter

• Battlefield
• Yoshi's Island
• Smashville

Starter/Counter

• Lylat Cruise
• Pokémon Stadium
  
  
• Final Destination
• Castle Siege
  
  
• Delfino Plaza
• Halberd

Counterpick

• Luigi's Mansion
• Norfair
• Frigate Orpheon
• Pokémon Stadium 2
• Port Town Aero Dive
• Distant Planet
• Pictochat
• Jungle Japes
• Rainbow Cruise
• Green Greens
• Brinstar

Counter/Banned

• Yoshi's Island (Melee)
• Pirate Ship

Banned

• Mushroomy Kingdom 1
• Mushroomy Kingdom 2
• Mario Circuit
• Rumble Falls
• Bridge of Eldin
• Spear Pillar
• Wario Ware
• New Pork City
• Summit
• Skyworld
• 75m
• Mario Bros.
• Flat Zone 2
• Hanenbow
• Shadow Moses Island
• Green Hill Zone
• Temple
• Onett
• Corneria
• Big Blue

???

??????????

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Please provide evidence, insulting my post does nothing.

Because as I've told you a million times, it doesn't matter if good players support something or not. This point is irrefutable.

lol, this is so much like the MK debates

Pro-ban: here are a million points
anti-ban: lol ur scrubs and bad. also all of that is just data, any conclusion is just opinion
pro-ban: ok, so what's your argument
anti-ban: you're bad

looooooooooooooooool

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Please post the videos I would like to see them

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10895108&postcount=1323

Again, these were not meant as empirical evidence. They were meant to help in any way possible to test and aid in any way possible to help showcase theories, concerns, etc. Don't expect perfection and have an open mind, and you might be surprised at how little of an issue there is with some of the stages.

Some are, in my opinion, an issue, some aren't. Also have fun with the "lulzy" commentary. It was a blast to test / be silly with

theory without application... isn't that BBR's slogan or something?

Now you're just flat out being ignorant and trolling. That is of no use. Furthermore, we strive for as much application as possible. Some of these stages were not banned with any evidence for the most part to begin with.

I know from your other posts that you weren't even aware that LGLs and Infinite-bans were never enforced or a part of an official rule set. I could see how you might think that, as a new user, since these times are very full of debate on such topics. You really need to realize how narrowminded your perspective is here, though.

 

[KageMurphy]

Thanks @ everyone who replied.

Yes, I want you to be a lab rat.

Because like you said, you don't want any "in theory bull****." Well, same here. We don't want any of your "in theory bull****." We want proof.

I really like this counter argument, I am not at all in favor of these changes cause I've played on these stages you guys added in the earlier days of Brawl and they sucked but if some TOs run it I'll be interested in seeing the results since the meta game has grown and such because you make a legit point.

We'll see.

 

[-Ran]

There are 20 [22] possible stages in this list. Most tournaments previous to this that were at a national level [aside from MLG] were using 12 possible stages. I believe the problem with the inclusion of a wide amount of stages is that the worth of the stage ban process becomes marginalized. It becomes a matter of pick your poison. The more stages that are at a tournament, the more bans should be allowed.

22 stages wouldn't be much of an issue, if you were allowed to ban an extra one or two stages during the ban process.

 

[ADHD]

Because as I've told you a million times, it doesn't matter if good players support something or not. This point is irrefutable.

I didn't know you existed until.. maybe yesterday.

So stop beating around the bush since you like to avoid points.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I didn't know you existed until.. maybe yesterday.

So stop beating around the bush since you like to avoid points.

I'm annoyed like you are, but I think you should stop now, I stopped awhile ago (smirk)

 

[Steam]

There are 20 [22] possible stages in this list. Most tournaments previous to this that were at a national level [aside from MLG] were using 12 possible stages. I believe the problem with the inclusion of a wide amount of stages is that the worth of the stage ban process becomes marginalized. It becomes a matter of pick your poison. The more stages that are at a tournament, the more bans should be allowed.

22 stages wouldn't be much of an issue, if you were allowed to ban an extra one or two stages during the ban process.

This X1000 ^^^

 

[Life]

ADHD has points? Care to repeat them for our tiny, human, terrible-at-Brawl brains?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I didn't know you existed until.. maybe yesterday.

So stop beating around the bush since you like to avoid points.

IT doesn't matter if you know who I am or not. You're an idiot. We're done.

 

[GimR]

I spent too much time in the ZSS forums for that.

@GIMR: It's not that MK is broken on DP, it's that the sole best position to be in is that one little spot under the lead platform and on the slant.

Think of it this way. MK is plankin the ledge. A pellet appears and you grab it.

You z drop it onto the slant(It will slowly fall down to the ledge being a hitbox the whole time and I'm pretty sure it's transcended priority) and then punish MK's reaction.

Plus the ledge grab rule will most likely be in effect so he can' camp that ledge for too long.



The main problem I have is everyone is theorycrafting why MK is broken on this stage and they haven't event tested the stage mechanics out to see if what they're saying is true.

 

[MarKO X]

There are 20 [22] possible stages in this list. Most tournaments previous to this that were at a national level [aside from MLG] were using 12 possible stages. I believe the problem with the inclusion of a wide amount of stages is that the worth of the stage ban process becomes marginalized. It becomes a matter of pick your poison. The more stages that are at a tournament, the more bans should be allowed.

22 stages wouldn't be much of an issue, if you were allowed to ban an extra one or two stages during the ban process.

isn't the point of counterpicking to put yourself as the counterpicker at the advantage?

isn't half of smash learning how to use the stage in your favor to obtain victory?

would someone picking *insert stage here* be a problem if you were comfy on that stage anyway?

 

[ADHD]

ADHD has points? Care to repeat them for our tiny, human, terrible-at-Brawl brains?

See, my point is confirmed.

If you rly are a "supermodel from Paris," then you'd know it's over.

 

[Steam]

Think of it this way. MK is plankin the ledge. A pellet appears and you grab it.

You z drop it onto the slant(It will slowly fall down to the ledge being a hitbox the whole time and I'm pretty sure it's transcended priority) and then punish MK's reaction.

Plus the ledge grab rule will most likely be in effect so he can' camp that ledge for too long.



The main problem I have is everyone is theorycrafting why MK is broken on this stage and they haven't event tested the stage mechanics out to see if what they're saying is true.

there is no LGL, MK can plank all day.

@marK0- yes but many of these stages provide advantages to the point where they are nearly unwinnable. they are supposed to give an advantage, not a free game.

 

[WindMajor]

There are 20 [22] possible stages in this list. Most tournaments previous to this that were at a national level [aside from MLG] were using 12 possible stages. I believe the problem with the inclusion of a wide amount of stages is that the worth of the stage ban process becomes marginalized. It becomes a matter of pick your poison. The more stages that are at a tournament, the more bans should be allowed.

22 stages wouldn't be much of an issue, if you were allowed to ban an extra one or two stages during the ban process.

This is something that I was hoping would happen, but due to all the madness, I completely forgot to mention it.

The only difficult part would be picking a number (lets say 2 stage bans), and having people not cry, "Why not 3?? THIS MAKES [insert character here] OVERPOWERED!"

By the way, I don't hope to see this now. I want to see how this stage list pans out, before we fix any more rules.

 

[Life]

LOL, got your users mixed up ADHD? It's k. I won't take offense.

 

[Lore]

I didn't know you existed until.. maybe yesterday.

So stop beating around the bush since you like to avoid points.

Does it really matter if he's well known or not? Being well-known doesn't make anyone better or worse, and the same goes for not being known at all.

So stop beating around the bush since you like to insult people.

Edit: Increasing the number of stage bans is a good idea.

 

[-Ran]

There are 20 [22] possible stages in this list. Most tournaments previous to this that were at a national level [aside from MLG] were using 12 possible stages. I believe the problem with the inclusion of a wide amount of stages is that the worth of the stage ban process becomes marginalized. It becomes a matter of pick your poison. The more stages that are at a tournament, the more bans should be allowed.

22 stages wouldn't be much of an issue, if you were allowed to ban an extra one or two stages during the ban process.

This is something that I was hoping would happen, but due to all the madness, I completely forgot to mention it.

The only difficult part would be picking a number (lets say 2 stage bans), and having people not cry, "Why not 3?? THIS MAKES [insert character here] OVERPOWERED!"

The ban should be a percentage of the counter-picks. 7 Cps vs 15 [17] cps. One ban per seven. It gives a decent base line to test this out.