Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

[MetalMusicMan]

regardless it's a very supid stage, Olimar would no doubt be ******** on pipes.

So Olimars and Diddys shouldn't be allowed a good counter pick? Why not? I hate Olimar soooo much and wish he didn't exist, but that doesn't mean that I should bias myself and say that he shouldn't be allowed a good CP stage when plenty of other characters have them.

 

[vato_break]

If it's broken, break it more!

 

[CTX]

So Olimars and Diddys shouldn't be allowed a good counter pick? Why not? I hate Olimar soooo much and wish he didn't exist, but that doesn't mean that I should bias myself and say that he shouldn't be allowed a good CP stage when plenty of other characters have them.

Can we make Corneria legal then? For Toon Link? :-)

 

[T-block]

But Corneria isn't banned because Toon Link is too good on it.

MMM is just refuting the idea that YI:M should be banned because Olimar is too good on it.

 

[lordhelmet]

Oh another thing, on PTAD

Falco can CG -> spike >_>

Many characters that had trouble recovering WITH a ledge and a stage to tech against now have 0 hopes of recovering.

 

[HyL!]

Oh another thing, on PTAD

Falco can CG -> spike >_>

Many characters that had trouble recovering WITH a ledge and a stage to tech against now have 0 hopes of recovering.

this exactly

 

[CTX]

But Corneria isn't banned because Toon Link is too good on it.

MMM is just refuting the idea that YI:M should be banned because Olimar is too good on it.

I know lol. I'm just being lulzy in a lulzy thread...ya know? When in Rome...

 

[Life]

Oh another thing, on PTAD

Falco can CG -> spike >_>

Many characters that had trouble recovering WITH a ledge and a stage to tech against now have 0 hopes of recovering.

Or they could, y'know, hit the track and bounce back up... it's a slight penalty, but nothing that overpowers Falco.

 

[T-block]

Not true. If they bounce off the track (which is there for the majority of the course) they have a very good chance of recovering. They take damage, but it's unlikely they'll lose a stock.

 

[MBlaze]

If it's broken, break it more!

That's the ****in spirit! :D

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I know lol. I'm just being lulzy in a lulzy thread...ya know? When in Rome...

...You act smart.

 

[BBQTV]

If it's broken, break it more!

you might as well amirite?

 

[lordhelmet]

Or they could, y'know, hit the track and bounce back up... it's a slight penalty, but nothing that overpowers Falco.

That's a great thought!

Now we only take 20% more damage (that's only 0-75%), and that's IF the track happens to be over the blast zone at the time!

 

[da K.I.D.]

Oh another thing, on PTAD

Falco can CG -> spike >_>

Many characters that had trouble recovering WITH a ledge and a stage to tech against now have 0 hopes of recovering.

1. Step your sdi up. I havent been spiked offstage by a falco chaingrab dair, in many many months. Its literally the easiest (by FAR) thing to sdi in the entire game.

2. Dont get grabbed. It works, just try it.

3. Most of the time where you are on that ledgeless platfrom, you have road underneath you to bounce you back up anyway. =/

 

[BBQTV]

you guys should main a good character

 

[HyL!]

it's extremely easy to spike them back down with falcos side b or d air after they're bounced back up, go test it.

 

[Black Mantis]

The fact that 20 people out of at least a group of 100 voted for this shows how really committed they are to making Brawl "better".

(in this case better is a synonym for worse)

 

[Life]

Shows how fast this thread goes that I managed to ninja three (EDIT: 2, lol derp derp l2count) separate people at once and get a response within the same time frame.

 

[lordhelmet]

I don't even use Falcon against Falco. Way to assume.

And good luck not getting grabbed on PTAD's small-*** platform WHILE being forced to approach.

 

[gallax]

1. Step your sdi up. I havent been spiked offstage by a falco chaingrab dair, in many many months.

2. Dont get grabbed. It works, just try it.

3. Most of the time where you are on that ledgeless platfrom, you have road underneath you to bounce you back up anyway. =/

This exactly. It not an overpowered stage.

 

[Steam]

So Olimars and Diddys shouldn't be allowed a good counter pick? Why not? I hate Olimar soooo much and wish he didn't exist, but that doesn't mean that I should bias myself and say that he shouldn't be allowed a good CP stage when plenty of other characters have them.

with the addition of luigi's as well Olimar now gets two new CP stages to **** on... and **** to the point where it's borderline unwinnable for many characters. if the CP list is going to be this crazy the sets might as well on comprise of game 1 unless you're a character like the IC's or marth who doesn't now have a guranteed broken as hell CP from this. (as far as I know)

 

[CTX]

1. Step your sdi up. I havent been spiked offstage by a falco chaingrab dair, in many many months. Its literally the easiest (by FAR) thing to sdi in the entire game.

2. Dont get grabbed. It works, just try it.

3. Most of the time where you are on that ledgeless platfrom, you have road underneath you to bounce you back up anyway. =/

Lol @ this logic

I guess we should make every stage legal. Don't like it? Step your game up until you are good on it

 

[Life]

with the addition of luigi's as well Olimar now gets two new CP stages to **** on... and **** to the point where it's borderline unwinnable for many characters. if the CP list is going to be this crazy the sets might as well on comprise of game 1 unless you're a character like the IC's or marth who doesn't now have a guranteed broken as hell CP from this. (as far as I know)

Olimar for MK tier?

 

[Crow!]

A few pages back there was a huge-fonted request to explain why the stages in the banned list are worse than some of the stages in the counterpick list. To this end, I will here copy an excerpt from a post I wrote in the BBR on a whim to make certain that I really did have reasons to leave each of the stages I voted as banned in the banned category.

The following does not necessarily reflect the BBR's views. These are MY views.

(To honor the BBR secrecy thing, I have censored some my comments which referred to what other threads in the BBR say).


Mario Bros: Ban.
This stage is all about manipulating the items. I've not played here enough to know for sure, but I suspect there are a lot of 0-100 matchups.

Mushroomy Kingdom I/II: Ban.
1-2 has too many clearly abusable properties; I can't imagine it not being a serious problem with forming 0-100 matchups. 1-1's probably bad too, but even if it isn't, making rules about selecting which one of the two stages you get all so you can include a very questionable stage does not seem worth it to me.

Onett: Ban.
Better than Corneria, but still bad. Wall infinites hurt, but you have more ways to avoid them than usual. The killer, though, is how absurdly good just sitting at the outer wall of one of the houses is many characters. Once you have a lead on this stage, you pretty much should never lose; whichever side your opponent is on, you can just run to the other.

Shadow Moses Island: Ban.
The walls are destructible, which helps. Unfortunately, destroying the walls only turns off a few of the 0-death combos, as a walkoff is what remains. On the other hand, the platforms also help avoid problems. Overall, I think the problems outweigh the solutions too much, though.

75m: Clear ban.
Large stage which blocks some characters' movement much more than others. Can you say circle camping?

BoE: Clear ban.
This is the stage where the "must ban walkoff cgs!" mentality is fully applicable. The game becomes too focused on scoring a lock or cg of one type or another, and except during the rare times that the bridge is out, there's no way to attack your 0-death capable opponent without putting yourself at risk. There are probably a large number of matchups darn close to 0-100 on this stage.

Corneria: Clear ban.
Hanging out at the bottom of the wall is just too good. First person to get set up there while being ahead percents should basically never lose. Also, it is not reasonable to expect players to avoid arwings' lasers, and they deal too much damage.

Flat Zone 2: Clear ban.
It is not reasonable to expect players to avoid the hazards, which deal humongous damage.

Hanenbow: Clear ban.
I love this stage, but no. Running away is too good.

Hyrule Temple: Clear ban.
Circle camping for the lose. Also, survival here is so long that 8 minutes would probably legitimately be too short a time to expect 3 stocks to end, even if the players weren't stalling.

New Pork City: Clear ban.
This stage is apparently an attempt to be even worse than Hyrule Temple. It probably succeeds in this regard.

Rumble Falls: Clear ban.
When the map speeds up, many characters simply cannot afford to do anything other than jump, jump, jump. Turning this into an auto-win for other characters should be a trivial exercise.

Spear Pillar: Clear ban.
First of all, allowing this stage would require all sorts of rules about whether you can pick which of the three versions of the stage will be played on. After that, it provides the textbook example of circle camp enabling.

Wario Ware: Clear ban.
This stage regularly hands the victory to one player or the other through pure randomness.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

3. Most of the time where you are on that ledgeless platfrom, you have road underneath you to bounce you back up anyway. =/

Falco's spike has never been about the death thing for the past few months ever since it was found you could DI it. The main objective is giving falco a strong position from which to defend, and a lot of damage added from a simple manuveur. Hitting the stage after taking 50% of damage adds like another 10% to that and puts the target in a bad spot anyway. Death or damage, either way is win.

No need to reply to this.

 

[gallax]

Falco's spike has never been about the death thing for the past few months ever since it was found you could DI it. The main objective is giving falco a strong position from which to defend, and a lot of damage added from a simple manuveur. Hitting the stage after taking 50% of damage adds like another 10% to that and puts the target in a bad spot anyway. Death or damage, either way is win.

No need to reply to this.

If you think your character is that bad on PTAD then either dont use him on that stage or just outright ban it.

In combination with the removal of the LGL falco should actually be less of a threat now to some characters since he is horrible at beating planking.

 

[MarKO X]

you could spike them into a car.

funtimes.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I don't even use Falcon against Falco. Way to assume.

And good luck not getting grabbed on PTAD's small-*** platform WHILE being forced to approach.

youre stupid and bad if you EVER think you are forced to approach.

personally, I would rather let falco pelt me with 30% worth of lasers from across the stage than grab me at 0. On ANY stage...

 

[lordhelmet]

If you think your character is that bad on PTAD then either dont use him on that stage or just outright ban it.

In combination with the removal of the LGL falco should actually be less of a threat now to some characters since he is horrible at beating planking.

K.

I ban PTAD (a stage that shouldn't be legal), now Falco takes me to FD.

 

[John12346]

This post needs more love

also re quoted for truth

If it's so important, save it for when an MK rediscussion opens up, k?

 

[Steam]

I don't see how it's worse than some of the legal stages...

this @ wall of banned stages BTW

 

[HyL!]

youre stupid and bad if you EVER think you are forced to approach.

personally, I would rather let falco pelt me with 30% worth of lasers from across the stage than grab me at 0. On ANY stage...

so if a falco has the % lead on you SHDL'ing you don't have to approach so you can get timed out? sounds like a good plan to me

 

[Black Mantis]

If it's so important, save it for when an MK rediscussion opens up, k?

The sad part is there won't be an MK discussion because the BBR is doing everything in their power to make you pick MK.

 

[gallax]

K.

I ban PTAD (a stage that shouldn't be legal), now Falco takes me to FD.

And your point is what exactly? Before you banned FD and had to play on smashville where you still got laser camped.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

PTAD is over the track for the majority of the time and is also a pretty short stage. It has routine transformations that will disrupt Falco's chain throwing. It allows under the stage play at which Falco is very poor.

Also, guys, make up your mind. Is it broken for Meta Knight, or is it broken for Falco? One might intuitively think that Falco would have more trouble than most with his recovery here which, to me, would seem to balance perfectly with some potential boost to his chain grabbing game. As per Meta Knight, the lack of ledges destroys his planking game just as well as it helps his gimping game, the terrain being a combination of flat and pass-through gives a lot of characters favorable geography to fight him (guys like Diddy Kong don't have to worry about platforms, guys like G&W can come from below), and the nature of the track turns quite a few of his would be gimps into just extra damage. On the theoretical level, there seems to be a reasonable system of balances here.

The experience argument is silly for a lot of reasons. The first is that it's basically an argument from credibility. In a debate, the credentials of the speaker simply do not matter. All that matters is the content of what is said. A lot of the smash community has a major problem with this, but it's a fundamental principle of logic. The second is that a lot of the people claiming to be experienced seemingly have very little experience on the stages they are so vehemently arguing against. How many serious matches has someone like ADHD played on stages like Port Town Aero Dive, Pirate Ship, or Distant Planet? Even in terms of non-serious matches, I bet it's a very small number. Of course, I welcome evidence to the contrary, and people like him have an easy avenue to take here. Capture videos of high level play on these stages showing them to be degenerate. If you are a high level player yourself, you already are in a very strong position to do this so it should be an easy request, right? This goes to any of you claiming to be much better than the BBR members who worked on this list. Use your experience to make evidence to support your points. Don't just claim you're automatically right and we're automatically wrong on the basis of credibility.

 

[gallax]

The sad part is there won't be an MK discussion because the BBR is doing everything in their power to make you pick MK.

This statement is truly ignorant.

 

[MarKO X]

K.

I ban PTAD (a stage that shouldn't be legal), now Falco takes me to FD.

Counterpicking 101.

 

[lordhelmet]

And your point is what exactly? Before you banned FD and had to play on smashville where you still got laser camped.

Fail logic is fail.

SV is easily maneuverable thanks to the platform (and isn't as long as FD).

I'm done with this thread, people here have THE worst logic I have ever seen in my entire Smash career.

 

[Steam]

The sad part is there won't be an MK discussion because the BBR is doing everything in their power to make you pick MK.

They're trying to make us all quit brawl for melee. or some stupid brawl hack with more balance by making brawl only MK.

CONSIPRACY OMG

 

[Life]

@AA: As I've been saying... you don't need a Ninja Turtle named after you to critique art, why should you have to be top X at Y number of tournaments over Z period of time in order to debate Smash Bros? Thanks for the intelligent post.