Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Fuujin]

Zelda can actually kill, and her slow speed and grab isn't that much of a hindrance. She can actually do pretty decently onstage. The MU isn't that bad for Zelda until she gets offstage, since we can harass her with purely ranged aerials. If we miss, that's a free passage back onstage anyways. Link and Mario have it pretty bad all around.

Ganon can kill,even better than Zelda.
I don't see how this is very match up defining if she has no safe way to land her kill moves.
She can do decently on stage if you blatantly run into her attacks (protip: see my picture).
Ike has a shield and a grab that doesn't suck, what's Zelda supposed to do about that?
she can't even dash grab out of a power shielded F-air if the Ike spaces it.

She's basically a slightly faster moving Ganon in terms of movement/attack speed who can't be chaingrabbed/comboed as easily with a trade off of dying much earlier.

Not saying Link doesn't have -2 on Ike but at least he can force an approach and doesn't die at like 90 unless you gimp him.
I don't see Zelda doing better on ANY match ups than Mario unless a chaingrab or lock is involved.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

LOL

It is not as easy as you are making it out to be.

Under the old system, it would be 65:35 at best, 75:25 at worst.

It is completely winnable, and SIGNIFICANTLY easier than MK, Falco, or Sheik.

Also you're wrong there on SDI. SDI can be done with the left stick as well.

 

[Matador]

>>

+1, +2 Ike. Mario, once you powershield fireballs, there's nothing preventing Ike from messing up Mario pretty bad both onstage and offstage

This is remarkably different from how I gauged the match-up's difficulty for Mario. I believe that it's 0 at worst for Mario, possibly +1.

This is going based off of the fact that Ike is one of the few characters that Mario can gimp reliably with Fludd alone (which makes it kinda easy to do) and Ike doesn't appear to have many options to keep Mario at bay when inside, save jab.

Yeah, powershielding fireballs is extremely effective, but I don't think that completely shuts down Mario against Ike.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

no it can't. that's tap DI. here watch the vid that everyone who plays brawl learned how to DI from

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

and i agree, im saying that ganon pit is like 70:30ish

from what my understanding of this thing is, the number's are coordinated like

0- 50:50-55:45
1-55:45-60:40
2-60:40-65:35
3-65:35-70:30
4-70:30-the rest

that's the problem with this system, again, it doesn't have enough numbers. i mean i like how it works, but it needs to be a little more specific for reasons like this one.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ah, I see. My impression of the system is

9:1 +4
8:2 +3
7:3 +2
6:4 +1
5:5 +0
4:6 -1
3:7 -2
2:8 -3
1:9 -4

With the system you have there, you come into problems when you get to characters near the bottom of the tier list, who have MUs in that 3:7 and lower zone which are highly differentiated in difficulty.

Even with this system it should still have 1 step lower than -4 because there ARE literally unwinnable MUs in this game.

 

[John12346]

I'm about to sock you all in the face.

The MU chart numbers represent DEFINITIONS, not RATIOS

Imagine a matchup.

If you think both characters have the basic tools to deal with each other, and neither side holds any real advantage over the other, it's 0.

If you think both characters are evenly matched, but one character has a slightly easier time winning, or has some specific tool that one character has that his opponent doesn't, it's 1.

If you think one character has a blatantly obvious advantage that the opponent will have to work around for a majority of the match, or if one character doesn't have to put in quite as much effort to win, it's 2.

If one character can beat the other with little to no effort, because the character has something to shut down the opponent to a very large extent, it's 3.

If the matchup is unwinnable, it's 4.

Get these ratios out of your head, people.

 

[Clai]

also, whoever said that SDI means smashing a direction is wrong. it is called that because it can only be done with the smash stick and only when it is set to smash. Smash Directional Influence

Are you then saying that if you set the C-stick to anything other than Smash, then you ruin any chances of having additional DI to escape strings and such? Because I like having my C-stick set to attack and thought it wouldn't have that much of an effect on character dispacement.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

CStick direction = Doing the same direction with a full press of the left stick. CSticking your DI works because it's inputting a direction in addition to the "Attack" command, the attack command being ignored because your character can't attack but the direction being read. Maha, if you don't understand the technical reasons why SDI works, don't act like you do. "Tap DI" and SDI are one and the same, just done with different sticks. The game is reading the SAME inputs in both cases.

A CStick set to Tilt is sending the input of about a half-pressed left-stick, thus you'll get much less SDI if any. I'm not sure how much of an input B-Sticking registers, someone could probably check that by seeing whether Samus fires Super or Homing missiles.

Also, John, by your definition MK, Sheik, Olimar, and Falco are -3 for Ganon, while Ice Climbers is a -4. Which I can fully agree with.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

since there is no such such thing as a perfectly even MU due to CP stages (since there is no match up where one character's CP options aren't just that much more advantageous), then there should technically never be any 0 MUs at all by your logic.

second, why? ratios aren't a bad thing. i mean wats the differance between saying a MU is 70:30 or that it is just really really hard? there isn't one, your logic is flawed. if they just add another number that would allow for a more specific chart, end of story. there is no need to get ratios out of our head when the current system has yet to prove itself more accurate.

@supreme,
but that is differance, you get the attack input when you use the cstick which starts the attack animation which makes your position just that much differant. im not some reatard whos just started playin, i know the technical differance and because you don't start an attack animation when you just use tap DI, they are not the same thing.

 

[Steam]

Oh my god stop trying to translate the old ratios into the new... that's part of the reason this MU chart is so effed up in places.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

the new chart isn't specific enough for me, it's just an opinion like everything in this game is. the only thing that will ever matter is tourney results and the tier list, this MU chart just helps people know which character's have a higher chance of success against other character's, but since it is indeed flawed (but NOT to a harmful degree) and not specific enough for people's tastes, then they have every right to still use ratios. it's not like the BBR is god and we are they're worshippers, we don't have to just blindly obey and trust their decisions. i like being specific, this chart should be more specific IMO, end of my particular side of the story

 

[Raziek]

Maharba, John is entirely right about his interpretation of the new system. Ratios should not be compared to it, which is why there are varying opinions here.

 

[san.]

This is remarkably different from how I gauged the match-up's difficulty for Mario. I believe that it's 0 at worst for Mario, possibly +1.

This is going based off of the fact that Ike is one of the few characters that Mario can gimp reliably with Fludd alone (which makes it kinda easy to do) and Ike doesn't appear to have many options to keep Mario at bay when inside, save jab.

Yeah, powershielding fireballs is extremely effective, but I don't think that completely shuts down Mario against Ike.

Mario can't gimp Ike with FLUDD very easily, just hold forward the entire way. To stop cape, don't hold forward. Ike destroys Mario inside. Jab, bair, retreating aerials. Ike gimps mario easily.

Ike's aerials shut down Mario's, and bthrow-> dash attack from 30-80 % sets up a gimp.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

just because they shouldn't be compared doesn't mean they can't be compared, and until there is a more specific number rating system i feel it necessary to explain my opinions in ratios sometimes due to there not being enough understanding between certain MUs. like just because pit may not be as hard as MK and Falco for ganon from the Ganon's point of view, that doesn't mean he is as hard to play against as DK is from pit's point of view. and just because pit isn't as hard as MK from DK's point of view, doesn't mean he is near as hard to beat as fox from pit's point of view.

once again, this is just IMO, and there are always gonna be a bunch of opinions

 

[ErikG]

the new chart isn't specific enough for me, it's just an opinion like everything in this game is. the only thing that will ever matter is tourney results and the tier list, this MU chart just helps people know which character's have a higher chance of success against other character's, but since it is indeed flawed (but to a harmful degree) and not specific enough for people's tastes, then they have every right to still use ratios. it's not like the BBR is god and we are they're worshippers, we don't have to just blindly obey and trust their decisions. i like being specific, this chart should be more specific IMO, end of my particular side of the story

Well, when it comes to the BBR's chart, you sort of have to play by the BBR's rules.

The main problem I found with ratios is that the interpretations for them varied widely among players. Some people viewed a 6:4 as a counter. I viewed it as a fairly manageable advantage to one character.

 

[Seagull Joe]

ganon and bowser do not belong in the same spot as DK, and every ganon i play out here only uses him for doubles. pit vs ganon is unwinnable for ganon imo. ganon is so slow that all it takes is a one stock lead and i can time him out on stage and never even get hit because of air camping. while i could see making DK only a -2, as i said the other -2s are more troublesome than DK is so i put him as -3. and ganon is gimp bait. while i play no true ganon mains, the ganons i play are just good players and the MU is still just sooooooooo free, even if we aren't gimping him we are out prioritizing him. this is why i feel they should have added another number is for situations like this. because then i could have falco and peach at that slight advantage spot, some of pit's +1's at the slight advantage for him (fox for example), some +2's in the +1 spot, and DK could be in the +3 area which would not be as harsh as it is due to the addition of +-5. then i would have no problem putting ganon and bowser +4 area as that would still labled as still winnable just super hard due to +5 getting the title of unwinnable.

also, whoever said that SDI means smashing a direction is wrong. it is called that because it can only be done with the smash stick and only when it is set to smash. Smash Directional Influence

You're wrong. In no way is Pit vs Ganon unwinnable. Pit can't harass Ganon to kingdom come. He has no infinite on Pit. It isn't like Ganon is gimpable every time he is sent offstage. Pit has nothing to make him go horizontally down (not to be confused with vertical, which would be his dtilt).

Bowser also isn't unwinnable for reasons stated above.

Why the **** would Pit hard counter Dk?

the new chart isn't specific enough for me, it's just an opinion like everything in this game is. the only thing that will ever matter is tourney results and the tier list, this MU chart just helps people know which character's have a higher chance of success against other character's, but since it is indeed flawed (but to a harmful degree) and not specific enough for people's tastes, then they have every right to still use ratios. it's not like the BBR is god and we are they're worshippers, we don't have to just blindly obey and trust their decisions. i like being specific, this chart should be more specific IMO, end of my particular side of the story

And tourney results reflect a lot of this chart. A lot of matchups indicated are seen through tourney perspective. The BBR is just a collective bunch of people who made this list.

@john
you couldn't touch me in a real fight unless i let you bro. 6.5 years of Okinawan Isshynryu and obtaining my black belt, not to mention street fights were common when i lived in norcal, gtf@me.

*Wonders what this has to do with anything*

second off, since there is no such such thing as a perfectly even MU due to CP stages (since there is no match up where one character's CP options aren't just that much more advantageous), then there should technically never be any 0 MUs at all by your logic.

Dittos are even matchups.

third, why? ratios aren't a bad thing. i mean wats the differance between saying a MU is 70:30 or that it is just really really hard? there isn't one, your logic is flawed. if they just add another number that would allow for a more specific chart, end of story. there is no need to get ratios out of our head when the current system has yet to prove itself more accurate.

Because a ratio is a percentage scale that gauges the chances of someone winning definitively based on pre-cursors.

A number scale that designates soft counter, hard counter, advantage, and disadvantage designates the degree to how "difficult" or "easy" a matchup actually is.

just because they shouldn't be compared doesn't mean they can't be compared, and until there is a more specific number rating system i feel it necessary to explain my opinions in ratios sometimes due to there not being enough understanding between certain MUs. like just because pit may not be as hard as MK and Falco for ganon from the Ganon's point of view, that doesn't mean he is as hard to play against as DK is from pit's point of view. and just because pit isn't as hard as MK from DK's point of view, doesn't mean he is near as hard to beat as fox from pit's point of view.

once again, this is just IMO, and there are always gonna be a bunch of opinions

*Remembers the quote BPC always says and rearranges it*

You're opinion is bad and you should feel bad for posting it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pit vs Ganon is definitely unwinnable lmao

 

[Seagull Joe]

Pit vs Ganon is definitely unwinnable lmao

Then Koolaid should play Vermanubis. They're in the same region.

VERM, NAMESEARCH INTO HERE.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think that Koolaid represents top level play for Pit but I'd be surprised if Verm would beat him anyway. Just because the match-up is really freaking dumb.

 

[Kewkky]

the new chart isn't specific enough for me, it's just an opinion like everything in this game is. the only thing that will ever matter is tourney results and the tier list, this MU chart just helps people know which character's have a higher chance of success against other character's, but since it is indeed flawed (but to a harmful degree) and not specific enough for people's tastes, then they have every right to still use ratios. it's not like the BBR is god and we are they're worshippers, we don't have to just blindly obey and trust their decisions. i like being specific, this chart should be more specific IMO, end of my particular side of the story

Okay, I'm gonna call you out on this. You do know we asked many of the characters' top players for THEIR input, right? Saying that this chart is flawed to a harmful degree is like saying "I disagree with the opinions of the people who spend most of their time studying the game AND the top players, because I think I'm right and they're wrong".

It's easy to say "this MU chart is wrong, Pit vs Yoshi should be X ratio instead of the chart's Y ratio", but apparently it's not easy for some
people to assimilate the fact that the MUs are viewed from BOTH SIDES OF THE DISCUSSION. Simply because you're a Pit player and you are sure that an MU is X ratio, doesn't mean that that character mainer, who thinks the MU is Y ratio, is wrong. Maybe you're wrong? Maybe both of you are wrong? Maybe either of your views of what slight advantage/disadvantage is is different from what the other person thinks slight advantage/disadvantage means.

This chart is not flawed to a harmful degree. It's not perfect, it's opinionated, sure, but we tried to make it as best as possible and some of us utilized every resource out there (except those mainers of obscure characters, or the ones whose top mainers are already in the BBR but whose community is very inactive). I can tolerate opinions on the chart being wrong, or how they disagree with the chart, we're all entitled to what we believe and I agree that some of us might not like what we see, it's all opinions anyway. But I do not like hearing "the chart is flawed in a harmful way" when I myself have seen the BBR at work on projects and know that we mean no ill intent and we KNOW what we're doing while doing so.

I dunno, that tone just sounds like you're giving yourself some entitlement, and trying to kick dirt on the MU project (which is still V1.0, mind you) simply because you've been here discussing your opinions of Pit's MUs this last page and everything seems to be going well for you. And this is MY opinion.

 

[Juushichi]

Man. It is good to have Kewkky back. He just ***** too hard. Oh and this is my opinion.

 

[Kinzer]

Man. It is good to have Kewkky back. He just ***** too hard. Oh and this is my opinion.

Your opinion that he ***** too hard, or you share the same opinion on the matter?

Either way, I concur.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Your opinion that he ***** too hard, or you share the same opinion on the matter?

Either way, I concur.

Indubitably!

 

[Yikarur]

The Term "Tap-DI" does not exist. It was first used by random people who tried to explain SDI and had no clue about terminology.
pls don't use it anymore, I always go aggro when people say it.

 

[DeLux]

Withdrawn because it was all a typo

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

whats funny kewkey is that is a typo, i meant to say "it's flawed (but NOT to a harmful degree)" and just didn't type not. that there is just a misunderstanding of my flawed typing. im being totally honest when i say that it was a typo as you can go throughout this thread and see all my posts where is say it's flawed but not too much. my bad bro, it's just a typo.

also like i always said, that's just my opinion of what pit's MUs should look like, it's not like im saying everyone is wrong and im right, im just saying it's my personal opinion based on who i play and how i play them. that's just how i view these MUs

@seagull
everything you say is worthless. all you ever do when people post is say stupid **** and don't back up facts for it. you say my opinion is bad, prove it. prove that pit doesn't hard counter DK, prove that ganon can beat pit, prove me wrong with evidence, not just stupid "ima gonna say your dumb and not back it up" bull****.

also in brawl 70:30 is exactly the same as saying it's a hard counter, because even though a number doesn't have a worded defintion, it is implied that the ratio means hard counter. and by the way you are wrong when you say dittos are even because port priority has an effect on every MU no matter if it is a ditto or not, one player always has the advantage at a given time no matter how slight it is, which is why i say there is NO even MUs in this game.

you don't like my opinion, deal with it, don't just say stupid **** you have no basis on.

@delux
see my post to kewkey about it being a typo

 

[Kewkky]

whats funny kewkey is that is a typo, i meant to say it's flawed (but NOT to a harmful degree) and just didn't type not. that there is just a misunderstanding of my flawed typing. im being totally honest when i say that it was a typo as you can go throughout this thread and see all my posts where is say it's flawed but not too much. my bad bro, it's just a typo.

also like i always said, that's just my opinion of what pit's MUs should look like, it's not like im saying everyone is wrong and im right, im just saying it's my personal opinion based on who i play and how i play them. that's just how i view these MUs

Oh. Well, my bad. Sorry.


Hopefully I got other people who might've had that opinion with that post then.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

no worries bro, this is the internet, typo's can completely change the outcome of a sentence (obviously) so it's not like this is some overbearingly huge deal. **** happens

oh ya and @ seagull

you have a typo up there. you said ganon has no infinite on pit, and unless you are just trying to support me further, i would just like to say...
DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!

however pit has a 0-48% CG to aerial edge release on ganon which makes him LAUGHABLY easy to gimp. you always harpin on me but ill bet you've never even played a good pit. hell from your incredibly misinformed post about pit not being able to sit there and harass ganon all day it sounds as if you have never even played a pit main at all. too bad as it just makes your posts that much more pointless. lmfao @ ganon recovering against pit, it's really too good. especially from some1 with no mu experiance against any notable pit players

 

[Fuujin]

@seagull
everything you say is worthless.

Daaaaang Seagull you just gonna sit back and take that??

 

[John12346]

This is a late-ish response, but

@ Maharba

The reason I feel the MU numbers work better than the ratios is due to the fact that, if we stick to ratios, everyone has their own varying opinion about what the MU actually is. Some would argue 65:35, while others would argue 55:45, and people bicker to no end about what kind of middleground everyone should stick with.

With the MU numbers, we sacrifice precision, yes, but it's much easier to talk about what a matchup "feels like," rather than what the exact ratios are, down to the number. It's much easier to say that a matchup is a "moderate disadvantage" or a "slight disadvantage" than it is to come down to some arbitrary number that almost everyone isn't going to agree on anyway.

Also I wouldn't be so sure about that fight being one sided... I'm a black belt too, ya' know. ;p
Although mine's from studying under Shotokan style, not Okinawan Isshynryu...

 

[Kuro~]

Someone misinformed you then.

Not all of Marth's tippers have that quality. For example, if you tip someone with a Fair, you CAN indeed SDI it. Quite noticeably actually. You can also SDI his Dair spike into the stage. However, Fsmash and Usmash? I believe are the ones you in fact cannot SDI. Fsmash guaranteed I know you cannot. But yes, the spike does allow you to SDI it during hit lag.




I went over that awhile back. New term: CD. Character displacement.

Just go a bit more in depth with detailing SDI, and rename it. Something that describes to people "Hey this is not a form of DI, but rather something that you input before DI takes place"

You can definitely SDI upsmash.

it would be an offset parabola though with each character as the ratios that make their match ups would not come out balanced. and since we are all doing what we think our character's MUs should look like im gonna through out mine.


-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:
+4:

im at work right now so i only get to use my computer on my breaks but if you have any questions as to why i think certain MUs are the way i listed them please just ask and i will answer when i get my next break.

edit:
next time ill just use go advanced and click the faces, typing them out results in weird character versions

I could agree with pretty much everything here. (with slight personal feelings towards some) but i HAVE to disagree with olimar. It's either 0 or+1 for us(more towards +1 imo). I'd also have to put TL as 0. Also, ganon vs pit is definitely unwinnable.

 

[Seagull Joe]

@seagull
everything you say is worthless. all you ever do when people post is say stupid **** and don't back up facts for it. you say my opinion is bad, prove it. prove that pit doesn't hard counter DK, prove that ganon can beat pit, prove me wrong with evidence, not just stupid "ima gonna say your dumb and not back it up" bull****.

also in brawl 70:30 is exactly the same as saying it's a hard counter, because even though a number doesn't have a worded defintion, it is implied that the ratio means hard counter. and by the way you are wrong when you say dittos are even because port priority has an effect on every MU no matter if it is a ditto or not, one player always has the advantage at a given time no matter how slight it is, which is why i say there is NO even MUs in this game.

you don't like my opinion, deal with it, don't just say stupid **** you have no basis on.

@delux
see my post to kewkey about it being a typo

I'm pretty sure I back up most of what I say with "facts". Generally, I post long arguments or demonstrate videos explaining matchups/tier list ideas in depth. I have my basis's for opinions. I am "knowledgeable" at this game and have been playing it for a very long time.

I spoke with Will after reading your post about Dk vs Pit and he does not agree that Pit hard counters Dk. He said Pit is light and will die from Dsmash fairly early. He said he can nair through arrows even. He also said there is nothing Pit has on Dk that is significant that's matchup breaking. He thought it was (In terms of a matchup spread) a 40-60 matchup at worst, which makes it either -1 or -2 on this chart (This is the matchup chart thread or is this the tier list thread? I forget from time to time). Seeing how he has played Rogue Pit, Koolaid, and Kiraflax, I'd be inclined to agree with him on Dk vs Pit since he's experienced in the matchup, while you are not as experienced (Since Js and Neon aren't near Will's level based on tourney performances) in the Pit vs Dk matchup.

Even with port priority, it gives no player a significant advantage in matchups except in Snake dittos...

no worries bro, this is the internet, typo's can completely change the outcome of a sentence (obviously) so it's not like this is some overbearingly huge deal. **** happens

oh ya and @ seagull

you have a typo up there. you said ganon has no infinite on pit, and unless you are just trying to support me further, i would just like to say...
DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!

however pit has a 0-48% CG to aerial edge release on ganon which makes him LAUGHABLY easy to gimp. you always harpin on me but ill bet you've never even played a good pit. hell from your incredibly misinformed post about pit not being able to sit there and harass ganon all day it sounds as if you have never even played a pit main at all. too bad as it just makes your posts that much more pointless. lmfao @ ganon recovering against pit, it's really too good. especially from some1 with no mu experiance against any notable pit players

Why does it matter if I had a typo? I do that all the time randomly. In one thread I typed "plays" when I meant to type "players". My mind drifts when I type occasionally. I'm not perfect at consistently performing AMAZING sentences together. I'm a Chemistry major =).

I've played Luckay4Lyphe, Pitzer, Fyre, Rogue Pit, and HeyItsYo (For Pit mains). I actually used to train with Luckay4Lyphe in Pit vs Wolf daily on Wi-Fi back in the day (Before he came offline and we still play and I usually win). I have never agreed with Bowser being that bad vs Pit cause I used to main Bowser and never had a huge problem with Pit. If I ps'd arrows then I was fine. Fortress is awesome. I wanted to play Koolaid at apex, but he was busy.

If there is a character, then I've generally played their best players most likely. There are few exceptions cause I've never played a very good PT (Like Reflex). I've played a lot of peoplez.

Daaaaang Seagull you just gonna sit back and take that??

Lol, I'm a ****/internet tough guy I guess .

I've also lost all ability to be trolled or get mad at stuff people post because I live in Md/Va, which is troll capital of the damn states.

 

[Kuro~]

Pit vs dk 60% chaingrab to fsmash to mirror shield recovery. Pit can still camp dk pretty easily. Idk, i could agree with 6:4 in your terms. That's reasonable and logical. I see it more 6:3.5 just cuz i've yet to play will but really i do.

As far as bowser goes...i have to disagree. He can't really land any of his kill moves on us easily. We easily outspace and outcamp him. We're super safe vs him.

I agree with wolf pit being 0.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

well then i withdraw my hate @you seagull. i didn't know you had basis for pit as almost no1 does.
mayb it's just the DKs i play can't handle pit but me and will never got in our MM at whobo3 so i have to wait to play him.

@jon,
i was buzzed when i read that you wanted to sock everyone in the face and took it personal. my bad lol. and i get your point, still like i keep trying to say, it's just my opinion on all of this. like kuro says pit oli could be our advantage, with my experiance i disagree but his experiance leads him to other conclusions which are his opinions. that's just brawl

 

[Laem]

I'm right you're wrong mada mada mada mada mada

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

also, gotta point out that DK can only nair through an uncharged arrow. charge even just a little bit and it out does DK's nair.

does anyone know if will is coming back to texas anytime soon? i want my MM

 

[Kuro~]

well then i withdraw my hate @you seagull. i didn't know you had basis for pit as almost no1 does.
mayb it's just the DKs i play can't handle pit but me and will never got in our MM at whobo3 so i have to wait to play him.

@jon,
i was buzzed when i read that you wanted to sock everyone in the face and took it personal. my bad lol. and i get your point, still like i keep trying to say, it's just my opinion on all of this. like kuro says pit oli could be our advantage, with my experiance i disagree but his experiance leads him to other conclusions which are his opinions. that's just brawl

It's okay maha. I'll teach you da way

 

[Judo777]

I'm pretty sure I back up most of what I say with "facts". Generally, I post long arguments or demonstrate videos explaining matchups/tier list ideas in depth. I have my basis's for opinions. I am "knowledgeable" at this game and have been playing it for a very long time.

I spoke with Will after reading your post about Dk vs Pit and he does not agree that Pit hard counters Dk. He said Pit is light and will die from Dsmash fairly early. He said he can nair through arrows even. He also said there is nothing Pit has on Dk that is significant that's matchup breaking. He thought it was (In terms of a matchup spread) a 40-60 matchup at worst, which makes it either -1 or -2 on this chart (This is the matchup chart thread or is this the tier list thread? I forget from time to time). Seeing how he has played Rogue Pit, Koolaid, and Kiraflax, I'd be inclined to agree with him on Dk vs Pit since he's experienced in the matchup, while you are not as experienced (Since Js and Neon aren't near Will's level based on tourney performances) in the Pit vs Dk matchup.

Even with port priority, it gives no player a significant advantage in matchups except in Snake dittos...

Why does it matter if I had a typo? I do that all the time randomly. In one thread I typed "plays" when I meant to type "players". My mind drifts when I type occasionally. I'm not perfect at consistently performing AMAZING sentences together. I'm a Chemistry major =).

I've played Luckay4Lyphe, Pitzer, Fyre, Rogue Pit, and HeyItsYo (For Pit mains). I actually used to train with Luckay4Lyphe in Pit vs Wolf daily on Wi-Fi back in the day (Before he came offline and we still play and I usually win). I have never agreed with Bowser being that bad vs Pit cause I used to main Bowser and never had a huge problem with Pit. If I ps'd arrows then I was fine. Fortress is awesome. I wanted to play Koolaid at apex, but he was busy.

If there is a character, then I've generally played their best players most likely. There are few exceptions cause I've never played a very good PT (Like Reflex). I've played a lot of peoplez.

Lol, I'm a ****/internet tough guy I guess .

I've also lost all ability to be trolled or get mad at stuff people post because I live in Md/Va, which is troll capital of the damn states.

Seagull you played any good sheiks???

 

[t3h Icy]

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Chain to Kick combos?

 

[Tagxy]

^lol.

And Maharbra youre being too lenient on pits MUs with those +4s. Pikachu 0-deaths about 4 different characters in the game and even he only has one +4 matchup. Out of 1406 MUs there are only 14 +4s, and the characters that have either have 0-deaths or are MK.