Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Chuee]

I love watching you guys talk about lmao.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

okay im back. alright i see that the DK, yoshi, bowser, falco, mario bros, and fox MU are the ones people have questioned, so ill answer them each to the best i can.

first off, mario bros. i made a typo, i meant to have mario as -1 and luigi as -2. my bad. those ones should be obvious but if you want an in depth on the mario bros ill give it on request.

pit has a 0-62% cg on DK that leads to a 0-death. just cg them to the ledge and air release them. charge an arrow, and wait and see if they airdodge when the jump, fire arrow. from there no matter whether the arrow hit or not it is an easy mirror shield gimp. next the fact that everything pit has outpriortizes DK except his SA moves so it makes dealing damage to pit incredibly hard while making it easy for pit especially since he forces the approach. Dk's shield is nair bait and we can auto cancel it after a shield poke into fsmash. also since he is so big landing bair on DK is reletively easy. not to mention he has nothing on a pit planking but due to the lgl we have to get up sometime. and -3 is 65:35 to my knowledge so that's why i have it as -3. also pit RAAAAPES dk on CP.


i went with the current MU chart polt. the only experiance i have in this MU is friendlies against a differant yoshi at HOM2 because i always saw you doing friendlies with some1 else and i didn't really care about playing yoshi. but from the guy i played it just seemed like a lot of pit's +1 mus, jab outprioritizes or clanks all your moves, eggs are eaaaasy to reflect or just PS or WC (wing cancel for those who don't know what WC is), and we out camp you. i mean ya the cg is annoying but nothing that can't be avoided by any means. but like i said i have to play you when i get the chance man.


this is one of the MUs that i have A LOT of experiance in. ill outline it in detail because falco only ***** pit if the pit does not know the MU. it is very precise but very even when played right.

in the OP it says that 0 is even or close to even. falco has a very slight advantage on pit kinda like the MK diddy MU, mk wins juuuust slightly.
pit can camp falco just as hard as falco can camp pit, and all pit needs to do is camp with falco until he is at 30% to avoid the dthrow>spike (which btw is easy to survive on any neutral you can fly under, and i guarentee pit will strike yoshi's against falco). also, pit has fthrowx2>walking fsmash on falco to return the favor and get an easy 47%. on stage, falco has the faster jab, but pit's is longer and clanks or beats any of his other grounded moves. our dtilt completely outranges him and is fast, plus pops falco into the air making him bait for fair or sh uair. Angel Ring ***** his recoveries hard and we can easily gimp falco offstage just by chasing him, shooting him, or AR his phantasm. we can mirror fire fox but if he is using that he is stage spike bait anyways so that's not even an issue. not to mention he has nothing on a pit planking but due to the lgl we have to get up sometime.

falco's advantages is his quick jab is faster than everymove we have bar our utilt which it clanks with. plus his lazers are annoying but we have 2 reflectors to deal with those but they still combo into grabs and bdacus's. plus due to the lgl we have to get off that edge eventually and falco is pretty good at punishing pit's get up options. we kill much earlier but he kills much easier so in the end due to his superior grabbing and general falco stuff it is his sliiight advantage. again tho pit ***** on CPs.


pit's jab out ranges and out prioritizes fox's entire grounded moveset. we out camp him. if he sits in his reflector he is loop>OHKO bait so he has too approach or die. our dtilt is the same as our jab but it pops him up in the air where he is bait to our high priority aerials. we **** his recovery nearly as hard as falco's except his is better between fox copter and better fire fox. oh ya we also have a 0-41% cg on him which gives a great edgeguard position on him. not to mention he has nothing on a pit who feels like planking for a little bit.
fox however is much faster than we are. his combos and general up close game are where he shines (no pun intended). he just has a hard time getting close is all. he kills much earlier than we do but getting fox offstage is not to big of a problem for pit and neither is gimping him for that matter.


i have yet too actually play a top level bowser. but here is what i know. pit can small step or normal cg bowser up to 52%. this put's him in the same situation as DK but with a worse recovery and second jump (iirc on the second jump) so getting the 0-death is really easy. plus we can just WOP him with fair and bair after eating his jump unless we wanna mirror him for laughs. he is big and slow and gets outprioritized by everything we do. he is juggle bait. he is gimp bait. he is soooo easy to outcamp it is insane. he is so slow and big that bair is easy on him. basically all the reasons we beat DK just more emphasized.


same as falco, she wins slightly. but illmatic you would know more on that one than me as you play esca more. im just learning it from you 2 so -1 seems appropriate since you do indeed have more experiance there. the MUs i listed here that i have tons of experiance in are fox, falco, DK, and luigi for the questionable ones. i have more MUs under my belt but no1 questioned them.

there you go guys, that's what i got for ya, did i miss any MUs?

edit: the reasoning behing DK as -3 instead of -2 is that all of the other character's in -2 are harder to play against than DK by a noticable margin, thus i gave him his own listing. there could be more -3's or less -2's but there are several MUs that im not all that experianced in on those ratings so i don't have any more comparisons.

here is the chart again so people don't have to go back to see it

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:
+4:

 

[Kewkky]

Yes.

Where's Kirby in your list? :|

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ill go edit that in and fix mario bros. pit kirby is 0 imo.

edit: okay i fix my MU chart. ill edit it in to my above post

double edit:
*high fives kewkey vvvv back in agreement*

 

[Kewkky]

ill go edit that in and fix mario bros. pit kirby is 0 imo.

*high fives him* Yes, Kirbyit is 0, I totally agree.

 

[DMG]

Ike's infinite isn't a big issue. You have to pummel to do damage, which lets him get out. Especially if you do K Prime's method for getting out, you get out pretty quick. If you don't pummel to keep him in it, you could strongly consider that stalling and you would have to stop.

The MU is really close though. I personally have it as 55:45 Wario's favor. Stage flexibility imo bareeeeely sways it for him. It's a close MU that can go for either side. The 1 thing I think Wario's have wrong is approaching by the air. Approaching by the ground imo is the way to do it: there are too many issues to deal with in the air. I'd rather deal with Jab in my face on the ground than in the air: it also lets him deal with retreat Fair since you gain space safely.

 

[Seagull Joe]

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
I something similar the day this topic was made but.

0, neither has anything particularly effective on the other. Seems pretty fair to me.
.

Wolf's Dthrow puts Ike in awkward positions and he isn't hard to shine gimp. Wolf also has a campable projectile. Wolf's regular heaviness isn't as big a factor because Ike is a killing machine. Wolf's shine is a pretty significant thing to, which makes it harder for Ike to bait kills and use charge smashes. Wolf just Bairs Ike to oblivion for the most part lmao. Wolf wins +1.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well Pit has the fact that he's a pretty good character on his side compared to the fact that Yoshi is garbage. And Falco doesn't "****" Pit though I would've given Falco a +1. Then again I think Pit beats Lucario, Peach and ZSS as well so I obviously must be biased.

No he doesn't.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

red ryu is right, it's really even. iblis, polt, reflex, guys who asked about falco and fox, did i answer your questions?

edit:
guy who asked about g&w, he is the hardest of the -1s by a little bit, but not anywhere near as hard as MK and wario. that was the logic on a few of the MUs i listed, just the fact they aren't as easy/hard as others in the BBR's original spread.

ALSO: you can't dodge in between hits of pit's fsmash unless you shield, dodge, or PS the first hit. of course you can SDI but that's a differant topic. plus it looked like the guy in that vid didn't know how to use jab or dtilt, 2 of pit's best moves for priority and spacing. much safer and longer range than fsmash, our jab is a frame faster than it too and dtilt is on the same frame. however our dsmash is as fast as our jab so that's interesting i guess. idk why im rambling frames now tho....

 

[san.]

Wolf's Dthrow puts Ike in awkward positions and he isn't hard to shine gimp. Wolf also has a campable projectile. Wolf's regular heaviness isn't as big a factor because Ike is a killing machine. Wolf's shine is a pretty significant thing to, which makes it harder for Ike to bait kills and use charge smashes. Wolf just Bairs Ike to oblivion for the most part lmao. Wolf wins +1.

Trying to gimp Ike is a risk, because getting hit by aether is 10-22%. Shine gimp sounds like a lame gimmick. Wolf going offstage is already a huge problem. The projectile is too slow to have much significance. Once we powershield, we're already close enough to jab.

Spacing bair isn't that good against Ike, it gets outprioritized by both nair and bair. Wolf has to be a lot more focused when using it, it's more situational.

Wolf's Dthrow isn't that bad. Ike's bthrow-> dash attack is pretty harmful, too, and we have easy grab setups.

Wolf's heaviness is pretty important, actually. It prevents the MU from being very easy for Ike, since tilt kills won't be very effective until higher %s, and Wolf is not an easy character to get a smash attack on. Wolf's shine is good vs smash attacks, but needs to hard read for other uses.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright guys, ill be back on here in about 6 hours or so to check on what you guys thought of my summaries to your questions. gotta go to job #2 so much work.... hardly any free time anymore.... jons about not wanting to get off couch atm

 

[Conviction]

I'm in disagreement with the camping thing as a fox player. Idk if plays anymore but the pit I used to access to play against was kola and camping pit wasn't hard, just shine and jump cancel once it connects, power shining might even effective (something ill have to test).

Actually ill just wait and see what you have to say

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

just fyi i 3rd fox so i see where your coming from but it's not that easy against a good pit who knows how to camp. also do you mean close mid range or far mid range? that spacing differance is what shifts it between fox doing good and pit doing good. okay for reals ill post later im almost gonna be running late now.

 

[Conviction]

Close mid range (I guess) I just call it mid range because I can transition between far to close range.

 

[Poltergust]

i went with the current MU chart polt. the only experiance i have in this MU is friendlies against a differant yoshi at HOM2 because i always saw you doing friendlies with some1 else and i didn't really care about playing yoshi. but from the guy i played it just seemed like a lot of pit's +1 mus, jab outprioritizes or clanks all your moves, eggs are eaaaasy to reflect or just PS or WC (wing cancel for those who don't know what WC is), and we out camp you. i mean ya the cg is annoying but nothing that can't be avoided by any means. but like i said i have to play you when i get the chance man.

...Yoshi can't chaingrab Pit.

You clearly don't have enough experience with the match-up (as you said yourself). Perhaps you should reevaluate your position on it after learning more about how Yoshi works.

 

[Judo777]

I actually agree with you on sheik ike being even san. I think i was outvoted for that. Although her recovery being punishable is not the reason i would say that. Its more so that ikes recovery is way too difficult to disrupt and therefore gimp effectively. Also Ikes IASA frames makes me mad because it looks like he gonna lag more than he is. Sheik needs to be precise with her punishes and ikes is just hard for dumb reasons. Also jab can be a decent chunk of damage on us. Despite that however i think sheik wins up close.

 

[Killanator90]

...Yoshi can't chaingrab Pit.

You clearly don't have enough experience with the match-up (as you said yourself). Perhaps you should reevaluate your position on it after learning more about how Yoshi works.

I just played the pit matchup with yoshi in tourney and it wasn't fun. Yoshi can't chain grab pit and out camps yoshi really bad. Not sure how to approach this MU properly.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I also don't agree with Pit having a +1 on Yoshi. I honestly can't think of a reason why he would have the advantage in that match-up. He doesn't really have anything special on Yoshi (and vice versa). =/

I'm just going to list all the other MUs I disagreed with (which are all -1s, strangely).

- I feel the strongest about this. I'm absolutely positive it's a 0.
- Another 0.
- ????? I have no clue how to label this guy. A -1 seems off now, though.
- No matter how many Peaches I've played, none of them made me feel like I was playing a disadvantaged match-up. Yet another 0.
Alreadly explained.
This one could also be a 0. Shelda is fine, though.

I agree with all of these except maybe Wario. Even if we do have an Infinite on him and we can just Lob eggs at him if he tries to be Cute in the air with his Broken Air Mobility. He has a few tools that can kill us pretty early.
Although I've only played one random Wario and DMG's wario (Though I sandbagged hard in our Pools match at Nikefest 3 cause I knew i'd lose) I still think this could be slightly in wario's favor if he's playing carefully. If just Full on "Look at me in the air as I go towards you with the Obvious D/UAir" then it'd be in our favor just for punishing stupid mistakes Aggro wario players would try to do against us.

Also just cause of our shield having the ability of not being Poked, Plus the 20+ banana Shenanigans we have, Being able to live to pretty much 130-200% each stock against Diddy while the max he'll probably get too is 140%, I'd see Diddy Kong as a -1 Rather then -2.

Edit @Polt: I think Pit's tools are lot more "basic" ... the things Olimar and IC are outstanding at are situational, kind of gimmicks [although obviously powerful] so a character of extremes [which Yoshi undeniably is] may have good tools around these specific things. In Pit's case however the things he's good at compared to the things Yoshi is bad at pretty much amounts to a +1 for Pit. Because there's really no "gimmick" to get around.

Pit just has to Plank with a bit of Camping and we're basically sitting ducks unless we want to risk rushing in and getting a Nair on him, Though we'll just probably get Uair'ed anyways, and possibly gimped by getting Fair'ed.

Wolf ends Yoshi with three moves (Laser, Bair, and Shine). The end.

In all seriousness though, if Yoshi's played aggro then they wouldn't have as hard a time at the Wolf matchup. I played Polt and Sharky and they both try to approach funky or just camp. Oh. (The Va Yoshi) plays the matchup aggro, which makes me have a more diffficult time. He also does a lot of up b baiting into dash grab. Regularly this wouldn't work, but if you ps the egg or shield it then you still get grabbed. Best option would be for Wolf to shine cancel when the egg hits his reflector into a jumpshine.

Why were these two camping when they should've just gone aggro with Egglay half the time?

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:

should be 0.
Ike seems to have the advantage, being able to heavily pressure Yoshi's defense, etc, but Ike has trouble dealing with grab mixups and the CG to offstage. Ike can't space yoshi too reliably because of yoshi's quick aerial speed. Yoshi has a decent weight, although it is pretty easy to kill him.

Ike has ridiculous Kill moves, we have Slight Weight, Camping, Chaingrab, Nair out of Aether, and other nits n bits, I agree with even too.

i went with the current MU chart polt. the only experiance i have in this MU is friendlies against a differant yoshi at HOM2 because i always saw you doing friendlies with some1 else and i didn't really care about playing yoshi. but from the guy i played it just seemed like a lot of pit's +1 mus, jab outprioritizes or clanks all your moves, eggs are eaaaasy to reflect or just PS or WC (wing cancel for those who don't know what WC is), and we out camp you. i mean ya the cg is annoying but nothing that can't be avoided by any means. but like i said i have to play you when i get the chance man.

That was Boshi, And nothing bad towards him. But he was doing weird things... Like using DownB's stars to try and hit you while you just literally walked towards him, Powershielded the stars and proceeded to Fsmash/Dsmash him.
Also we have no Chaingrab on pit... Here's the list of people we can chaingrab.


Key
Easy is green
Hard is orange
Super hard is dark red
* = can be upsmashed out of release, with an approximate kill percent included (fresh)

-Meta Knight *115%
-Ganondorf *145%
-Squirtle *110%
-Pikachu
-Diddy Kong
-Captain Falcon
-Bowser
-Lucas *125%
-Charizard
-Sonic
-Wario (Infinite)*140%
-Ike
-Link
-Falco
-ZSS

Characters that can be UpSmashed after the release (No CG) are:

-Popo
-Ness
-Donkey Kong (While we can USmash him, We also Can Chaingrab him... Unless DK's know to UpB out of it from the small Frame window he has We'll just wait till he lands to Usmash/Re-grab him anyways...)

 

[Poltergust]

^Isn't Dedede also on that list?

I just played the pit matchup with yoshi in tourney and it wasn't fun. Yoshi can't chain grab pit and out camps yoshi really bad. Not sure how to approach this MU properly.

Well, don't try to camp Pit, at least when he's in a position to fire an arrow at you. Approaching him is not a bad idea since his attacks are fairly standard and don't punish too hard if you are playing carefully. You can also try to out-space him with your grabs and such. His up-B can be troublesome, but you can learn how to deal with it with practice.

I don't have anything special to say about Pit, really. It's a pretty basic match-up as far as what they can do to each other. Planking even becomes just a minor issue due to the whole universal LGL thing. Just play smart and you should be fine.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

@iblis,

at mid range we are perfectly safe to just hold mirror shield out as even tho you are fast, when you pass a certain point, the pit will drop mirror shield and either retreat via a sh or fh while charging an arrow if it looks like you will jump, or we will just start our jab and we can slow it down kinda to the effect of MK's ftilt but with less range and the option of using jab infinite which literally beats out any grounded move you have including usmash. or we may just keep crouching and dtilt you when you get close which is bad for fox as it makes him succeptible to nearly all of our aerial arsenal bar bair in most situations. but tbh our jab is what makes this MU in pit's favor. it really does just wreck your ground game.

pit has simple solutions to literally everything fox can do. the only reason it isn't -2 is because fox has the speed to make up for his absolute inability to beat our grounded arsenal combined with his SHAD. retreating nair or just throwing out uair at sh auto cancel height pretty much shuts down his dair unless you get in a good read. i mean ya fox can run away and shoot lazers all day but we can just sit there and charge an arrow and wait until you pull your gun and shoot you while you in shooting animation. if you say you can just sit there and shine all of our arrows until we approach, i ask if you know about loop>reflector OHKO (when pit loops an arrow to go through his angel ring and bounce between reflectors, it always breaks his opponents reflector and the damage and knockback multiplier make it a 57% damage dealing OHKO) because sitting in your reflector will just get you killed.

i mean yes fox has his one little trixies in this MU such as being able to compete with pit in the air if you read him and get close, but other wise we just kinda out prioritize fox with everything, plus we have a good cg on him and pit is really safe on shielding stuff. and then there is counter picks. fox has good ones on pit but pit has RC, brinstar, halberd, and lylat cruise on him and those are far more devastating to fox than PK stadiums is too pit. any way there is my indepth answer for ya, please provide me a good counter arguement as i don't get how fox beats pit at mid range or out camps him, all i see is his speed and greater kill power.

@poltergust
we really should play at HOBO next month. are you going to be there? if so we can both get in some games and see how this MU really goes down. also esca is gonna be there so if you play both of us that is 2 differant pit styles that you can test the MU on to get a good reading of how pit works in the MU as can i. plus i've always thought it would be fun to play a ranked yoshi main. to me it's almost unbelievable that a yoshi can play on par with the likes of trela and such but i saw you do great at HoM2 and you are on my pros to play list.

 

[NickRiddle]

Mystic: Polt's back in FL, so he probably won't go to HOBO.
If you'd like, I could get him to play against/record vids against R@vyn so you can see how it works.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

that would be excellent man! i didn't know ravyn was still active in FL. that's good to hear. but ya i would love to see some matches between those 2! it would be a great learning experiance just to see how yoshi would even handle pit's hit and run game. plus that would be good footage for both character boards.

 

[Conviction]

Well like me start out saying, you halberd is one of foxs strongest cps right?

Ill explain this but this going to end up theorycraft back and forth (I wish I had video of this mu, it doesn't get played much lol)

Are you basing fox's approach from mid range by him just dashing? Walking foward and powershielding jabs and dtilts is not that hard. Even then if you dtilt, fox can sh dair/nair over you for doing so.

Now to the ohko thing. Why would I sit in my reflector for it to break if I can just jump cancel it after the first time to arrow hits it and then when it comes back around just powershield/dodge it?

Foxes shouldn't be mindlessly camping.
(Doesn't megafox live in TX? You should play him)

Idk what else to say right now, my thoughts are slowly fading from this mu because its been a while since I've played it.

Quick questions?
1. What foxes have you played?
2. Is the cg like marths and relys on fox being at 0 or near zero because the staling factor?

 

[Scatz]

^Isn't Dedede also on that list?

No. D3 is outside the grab range and can jump out.

 

[Fuujin]

1:
2:

Why would Zelda do better on Ike than Mario and Link?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

because zelda is secretly a mid tier in disguise

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4iAr6lXYWU me vs. megafox's falco 2 saturday's ago (we didn't get a chance to play again)

the foxes that i have played are blaze and trevonte, both are from norcal. i have also played against zeton (and i 2stocked him on halberd for my CP because pit's sharking and camping there beat fox hard. however he then 2 stocked me at FD but he was a better player than me at the time, i just know halberd inside and out as it is a top 3 stage for pit). i have no vids against trevonte and zeton unfortunately. and the vids i have against blaze are ooold.

EDIT:
i just watched those vids. they are so old and scrubby that they do not pertain to this discussion at all. im almost ashamed of them but hey we all started somewhere right? lol

and that's it tbh. i need to play megafox again at HOBO and get vids against him

 

[Nike.]

EDIT: nvm

Megafox wont be at HOBO.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

aw...... lame! i got my hopes up because of this little MU discussion. hey nike, i forgot we never got in our friendlies. lets be sure to do that at HOBO k?

 

[Poltergust]

No. D3 is outside the grab range and can jump out.

Strange, I thought you had to be frame-perfect to do it. Guess I was wrong.

 

[san.]

I actually agree with you on sheik ike being even san. I think i was outvoted for that. Although her recovery being punishable is not the reason i would say that. Its more so that ikes recovery is way too difficult to disrupt and therefore gimp effectively. Also Ikes IASA frames makes me mad because it looks like he gonna lag more than he is. Sheik needs to be precise with her punishes and ikes is just hard for dumb reasons. Also jab can be a decent chunk of damage on us. Despite that however i think sheik wins up close.

Sheik's jabs go through Ike's so we have to jab first, or SDI out and hope we can get a bair in.

Recovery being punishable is only for easy %s. Aether and fair would both reach even if you try to cancel the lag of the upB. Sheik may be fast enough before super armor frames kick in on Ike's upB. Sheik shouldn't be relying on ftilt to ftilt too much, but go immediately into her other combo attacks.

I think either can hold their own against each other, really. They just had to go and make sheik so very light.

Lots of characters can try to gimp Ike, but it takes timing and patience due to the nature of aether's attack.

Why would Zelda do better on Ike than Mario and Link?

Zelda can actually kill, and her slow speed and grab isn't that much of a hindrance. She can actually do pretty decently onstage. The MU isn't that bad for Zelda until she gets offstage, since we can harass her with purely ranged aerials. If we miss, that's a free passage back onstage anyways. Link and Mario have it pretty bad all around.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Maha, Ganon is not +4 for Pit. You are no Falco or Metaknight. It's hard, but at absolute worst its +3, probably leaning more towards +2. You are probably way overestimating your ability to camp and plank Ganon. Do you have MU experience against good Ganons?

Also, a page back, there was talk about SDIing Marth's spike. All of Marth's tippers have a SDI multiplier of 0 (unless the coding is lying, which is, y'know, impossible) meaning they CANNOT be SDI'd.

 

[san.]

Yeah, I was confused too when people were talking about SDIing the spike, Supreme Dirt.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It probably has something to do with a lot of people thinking that DI and SDI are synonymous. The term SDI should be replaced with something more accurate as it has nothing to do with directional influence.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Actually, it does.
DI is influencing your direction.
Smash has to do with, well, smashing a direction (or rotating to simulate doing so repeatedly)
You are influencing the direction in which you travel when SDIing.

People just need to get more educated on terms that are thrown around.

 

[DMG]

Also, a page back, there was talk about SDIing Marth's spike. All of Marth's tippers have a SDI multiplier of 0 (unless the coding is lying, which is, y'know, impossible) meaning they CANNOT be SDI'd.

Someone misinformed you then.

Not all of Marth's tippers have that quality. For example, if you tip someone with a Fair, you CAN indeed SDI it. Quite noticeably actually. You can also SDI his Dair spike into the stage. However, Fsmash and Usmash? I believe are the ones you in fact cannot SDI. Fsmash guaranteed I know you cannot. But yes, the spike does allow you to SDI it during hit lag.

It probably has something to do with a lot of people thinking that DI and SDI are synonymous. The term SDI should be replaced with something more accurate as it has nothing to do with directional influence.

I went over that awhile back. New term: CD. Character displacement.

Just go a bit more in depth with detailing SDI, and rename it. Something that describes to people "Hey this is not a form of DI, but rather something that you input before DI takes place"

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Character displacement is probably the most fitting term I heard for what we call SDI.

 

[DMG]

Yeah makes sense.

"See how this character 'teleports/shifts/moves/etc' over here while still frozen? That's character displacement. GG"

 

[san.]

SDI is easier to explain the inputs.

+ CD is a very crappy acronym to have.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ganon and bowser do not belong in the same spot as DK, and every ganon i play out here only uses him for doubles. pit vs ganon is unwinnable for ganon imo. ganon is so slow that all it takes is a one stock lead and i can time him out on stage and never even get hit because of air camping. while i could see making DK only a -2, as i said the other -2s are more troublesome than DK is so i put him as -3. and ganon is gimp bait. while i play no true ganon mains, the ganons i play are just good players and the MU is still just sooooooooo free, even if we aren't gimping him we are out prioritizing him. this is why i feel they should have added another number is for situations like this. because then i could have falco and peach at that slight advantage spot, some of pit's +1's at the slight advantage for him (fox for example), some +2's in the +1 spot, and DK could be in the +3 area which would not be as harsh as it is due to the addition of +-5. then i would have no problem putting ganon and bowser +4 area as that would still labled as still winnable just super hard due to +5 getting the title of unwinnable.

also, whoever said that SDI means smashing a direction is wrong. it is called that because it can only be done with the smash stick and only when it is set to smash. Smash Directional Influence