Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Doc King]

I was kind of thinking it should be between +2 or +3 for Dedede's favor. I know Wario has his down throw, combos, f smash, and stuff, but I think Dedede can do major stuff to him. Plus Wario doesn't have much of a camping game so it forces Wario to play a close game and when he gets grabbed, Dedede can combo him by a good amount of damage across the stage.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I was kind of thinking it should be between +2 or +3 for Dedede's favor. I know Wario has his down throw, combos, f smash, and stuff, but I think Dedede can do major stuff to him. Plus Wario doesn't have much of a camping game so it forces Wario to play a close game and when he gets grabbed, Dedede can combo him by a good amount of damage across the stage.

Wario doesn't -need- a camping game. He has a run-away-from-you game, which amounts to something similar in the end.

 

[Doc King]

The problem with that is that Dedede can camp Wario with his waddle dees, forcing wario to approach.

 

[Trent]

lol, Waddle Dees aren't that great at making people approach, shielding and all that jazz, let alone someone who can chill in the air.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

I doubt Wario would have a problem approaching a camping DDD if he had to.

 

[Alphicans]

The problem with that is that Dedede can camp Wario with his waddle dees, forcing wario to approach.

Having a projectile =/= forcing an approach. Would you say that because GaW has chef, I can make MK approach me? Definitely not. Waddle dees are slow, don't do much and are easy to avoid. Wario definitely has the mobility to never get hit by them.

 

[Coney]

lmfao @ waddles stopping anyone from approaching

do you realize how much lag is on that move

wario could literally short hop at ddd, airdodge through the waddle and grab, fsmash, fart, whatever his grubby little heart desires

 

[Doc King]

Well Wario has a poor running speed, so Dedede can camp him forcing him to approach. And if Wario gets grabbed, he can get comboed to probably like 50% or something with his walk throws and then at the edge a grab release combo to like an up smash, up tilt, or something. The grab release problem can also make it easy to get the swallow on him and so if you have more stocks than Wario, you can get a whole stock lead with the grab release to swallow (A dedede cide).

 

[NickRiddle]

lmfao @ waddles stopping anyone from approaching

do you realize how much lag is on that move

wario could literally short hop at ddd, airdodge through the waddle and grab, fsmash, fart, whatever his grubby little heart desires

This.
It has lag for forever.
I saw him throw a Waddle, and I REACTED with jump at him and side-b.
It hit.
Every time. -.-

 

[Alphicans]

Well Wario has a poor running speed, so Dedede can camp him forcing him to approach. And if Wario gets grabbed, he can get comboed to probably like 50% or something with his walk throws and then at the edge a grab release combo to like an up smash, up tilt, or something. The grab release problem can also make it easy to get the swallow on him and so if you have more stocks than Wario, you can get a whole stock lead with the grab release to swallow (A dedede cide).

Have you seen wario's air speed?

 

[Doc King]

This.
It has lag for forever.
I saw him throw a Waddle, and I REACTED with jump at him and side-b.
It hit.
Every time. -.-

The lag of the waddle dee throw isn't that bad to make use when an opponent is far away from you.

 

[BSP]

If they're far, the waddle dee's just going to land on the ground and be harmless for the most part. D3 can't make Wario approach.

 

[Doc King]

Have you seen wario's air speed?

Yes, but I didn't relize it was the 3rd best air speed in Brawl with 133.

Wario can approach with his air speed and DACUS, but Wario doesn't have that many options in the air as to Dedede with his chain throwing on Wario. Although Wario can use this fair, dair on him for damage racking. Also Dedede can do a down throw>down tilt or down smash.

I'm thinking +2 for Dedede is good, I mean how is it +1 when Lucario is +2 and Lucario can combo him better and chain throw him better and can't be comboed into a down tilt or a down smash and can't be walk thrown, or grab released comboed?

 

[Chuee]

Doc King.
Waddle Dee throw is ****.
Even if they're far away from you, they can PS that **** on reaction like every time lmao

 

[Sage JoWii]

Doc King for best Troll ever.

 

[Doc King]

Doc King.
Waddle Dee throw is ****.
Even if they're far away from you, they can PS that **** on reaction like every time lmao

Waddle Dee throw is a pretty good move, you can use it to protect yourself when recovering, puts pressure on your opponent, can be useful when someone is recovering, can do some cool combos like when the electric guy shoots and then you can use a move on them, can actually distract the opponent, can be used like Snake's C4 and down smash, and can do other stuff.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yes, but I didn't relize it was the 3rd best air speed in Brawl with 133.

Wario can approach with his air speed and DACUS, but Wario doesn't have that many options in the air as to Dedede with his chain throwing on Wario. Although Wario can use this fair, dair on him for damage racking. Also Dedede can do a down throw>down tilt or down smash.

I'm thinking +2 for Dedede is good, I mean how is it +1 when Lucario is +2 and Lucario can combo him better and chain throw him better and can't be comboed into a down tilt or a down smash and can't be walk thrown, or grab released comboed?

Because Lucario being able to combo Dedede better is hardly an undeniable fact, Lucario doesn't have a chaingrab as far as I know (I hear you can break out of Forward-B by mashing; correct me if I'm wrong), Lucario gets comboed into an Up-Smash at the end of a chaingrab, and Lucario can't camp/run away as well as Wario.

Wario against Dedede is "get the lead, then run away." Wario has Wario isn't hopeless when approaching against Dedede, but he really has to be careful. Thing is, though, when Wario is winning, Dedede has to approach Wario, which isn't the easiest thing in the world to do, either. The matchup is often decided fairly early in the game.

 

[DewDaDash]

rofl does this bbr chart really just have the ddd vs wario mu only +1? This is perhaps the biggest joke of a mu chart.

 

[Chuee]

Waddle Dee throw is a pretty good move, you can use it to protect yourself when recovering, puts pressure on your opponent, can be useful when someone is recovering, can do some cool combos like when the electric guy shoots and then you can use a move on them, can actually distract the opponent, can be used like Snake's C4 and down smash, and can do other stuff.

...........
Please stop lol.

 

[Conviction]

...........
Please stop lol.

No.

10thisistoogoodtostopnows

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Waddle Dee throw is a pretty good move, you can use it to protect yourself when recovering, puts pressure on your opponent, can be useful when someone is recovering, can do some cool combos like when the electric guy shoots and then you can use a move on them, can actually distract the opponent, can be used like Snake's C4 and down smash, and can do other stuff.

Unless he only threw Waddle Doo and Gordo but otherwise no...Waddle Dee Throw has its uses but overall it isn't the best.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

rofl does this bbr chart really just have the ddd vs wario mu only +1? This is perhaps the biggest joke of a mu chart.

The matchup isn't so terrible, especially since Wario generally benefits more from stage choice than Dedede. I think +1 and +2 are both reasonable to think.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I would say it's a solid -2 for Wario IMO. Wario has a difficult time due to how safe he has to play and the fact that one mistake on warios part can be big damage, but the thing about wario is, that he's one of the characters in the game that can be insanely safe. With a godly airspeed, quick/almost lagless aerials, true combos, cgs, an air grab, AND the ability to get a projectile, he can play a really great hit and run game and rarely put himself in harms way. No to mention he's hard to kill with a heavy weight, small size, great recovery, and tons of options from practically everywhere. The only reason I'd say -2 is because of the just plain massive amounts of damage D3 gets off one grab, especially due to how easy it is to grab with him. One grab can completely reverse a **** ton of warios efforts and can also lead into powerful kill moves that also shut down warios survivability which is another one of warios strong points.

 

[Steam]

Because Lucario being able to combo Dedede better is hardly an undeniable fact, Lucario doesn't have a chaingrab as far as I know (I hear you can break out of Forward-B by mashing; correct me if I'm wrong), Lucario gets comboed into an Up-Smash at the end of a chaingrab, and Lucario can't camp/run away as well as Wario.

It was arguably +1 before... but now that D3 has the upsmash it's pretty bad, because if luc dies first he'll never kill D3... like ever. also luc gets grabbed easier...

Luc does string D3 to 70ish really easily but if lucs screws anything up he gets grabed... And D3's bair ***** like everything luc has... especially his UpB

 

[Judo777]

why does shielda not do better against lucario than Sheik or Zelda seperately? They each really solve each other's problems against him and I honestly think It could be a 0...

Nooooo using Zelda against lucario is suicide. Lucario out ranges AND outspeeds Zelda almost completely. I tried using Zelda for this MU a long time ago and i would literally just take 85% minimum trying to hit lucario with anything.

Maybe I just don't understand the MU but my Zelda (which is a pretty good zelda) always gets trashed by lucarios.

@Flayl like Mars said marth doesn't have 5 jumps and also marths fair is actually punishable by DA on block if its not like perfectly retreated (which means like jump straight back and swing).

 

[Yikarur]

being outspeeded by Lucario sounds depressing =(

 

[phi1ny3]

I know this is always assuming that the opponent is able to do it perfectly, but...

The penalty for D3 messing up dthrow -> usmash is getting powershielded (literally lucario has to just hold shield to do this) -> smashed by lucario right back :X

Which helps because Lucario was almost as bad at landing smashes in the MU (uair, AS, and FP kills always seemed to be how I killed D3 in this MU) as D3.

@Yika: Yes, it really does sound disheartening, since Lucario is one of the easier characters to time out in this game

And yes, I agree that Wario does better in the MU against D3 than Lucario. Wario's pretty good at avoiding tactics that don't involve walling with attacks, and even though he's limited in options like Lucario, he actually gets a lot of reward for doing so. And his recovery doesn't suck nearly as much as Lucario's lol.

 

[_Kain_]

Yeah +1 is a little overdoing it seeing as DDD is basically Wario's hardest MU. Yeah he can runaway, but doesn't change the fact that DDD's bair can shut down some of his air options and the CG into air realease if grabbed after a certain % will lead to certain death

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Meta Knight is Wario's hardest matchup. I don't understand people who would say anything but that.

 

[C.J.]

MK>Marth>DDD imo for Wario's hardest MUs

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh yeah, is Peach no longer on that list?

And yes, a good MK will do nasty things to Wario, ironically he's the only one on that list that doesn't have a strong air release gimmick on wario (unless you've got him dangling over a ledge), which tells you how relatively nominal that mechanic is on Wario at top levels of play.

 

[Trent]

Wait, MK STILL has even MU's on this chart?

lol

 

[Doc King]

Dedede vs Wario is +1 on Smashville since you can't get much throws on here and Wario has a better time running away, +3 on Yoshi's Island since of my new dedede infinite discovery, and +2 on other stages.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Dedede vs Wario is +1 on Smashville since you can't get much throws on here and Wario has a better time running away, +3 on Yoshi's Island since of my new dedede infinite discovery, and +2 on other stages.

Just like that, huh?

I don't understand how Smashville is better for running away than Brinstar or any other weird stage.

 

[Yikarur]

Wario:MK is really good actually.

 

[C.J.]

just like that, huh?

I don't understand how smashville is better for running away than brinstar or any other weird stage.

DON'T QUESTION HIM.
He found a possibly new infinite so he obviously knows what he is talking about.

Also, BF is gay vs Wario. MK can't catch up in the air, and DDD just runs back and forth with tears in his eyes trying to find him.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Wario:MK is really good actually.

You're going to have to explain this to me, because I just don't see it.

People say, "Waft is a game-changer, and Wario has a weight advantage to work with." If the Meta Knight plays intelligently, nothing Wario does to attack is very effective, Meta Knight racks up damage really well, greatly outranges Wario, and can stay away from Waft to make it a moot point.

Meta Knight can just choose not to fight, and then you lose. I shouldn't have to make multiple hard reads just to gain the POSSIBILITY of dealing damage.

 

[Yikarur]

Yeah thats the theoretical point but I often see in practice that Wario has good options vs. MK, I see Semifers Wario vs. Staco a lot or Glutonny vs. Kaos earlier and Wario is really good in finding holes and abuse them.
In an optimal play MK never loses (it's a good thing that humans make mistakes and never play optiomally)
and I saw your vids vs. M2k and they weren't that bad! D:

 

[Doc King]

I don't think that Metaknight is Wario's worst matchup since Metaknight doesn't have that as many good grab release choices as some other characters. The worst matchups are either Pikachu vs Wario on battlefield, Dedede vs Wario on Yoshi's story, or Yoshi. The metaknight matchup is probably about the same as the Falcon matchup (both soft counters on Wario).

 

[C.J.]

I don't think that Metaknight is Wario's worst matchup since Metaknight doesn't have that as many good grab release choices as some other characters. The worst matchups are either Pikachu vs Wario on battlefield, Dedede vs Wario on Yoshi's story, or Yoshi. The metaknight matchup is probably about the same as the Falcon matchup (both soft counters on Wario).

.........................
I can't tell if he's serious