Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Shaya]

I still ride that marth ***** sheik.

We cg her like falco.
For half her stock.

Sheik is also a bad character.
Easy +2.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Why not. 's MU spread, imo

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:

I don't believe Sonic beats anyone higher than a small advantage, and for some of the ones he does beat, it's due to his sheer mobility and his ability to time out matches.

Either Even for Sonic's that have no idea what to do against Yoshi (Cause then their mindset is "CAMP ALL DAY"). Or +1 Sonic's favor for ones that know what the hell they're doing like Espy X or Speed for Example.

I believe as of late that Yoshi has a VERY good track record against Marth.

I don't keep track of character specifics, but you beat Neo. Yosh has a either 2-0 or 3-0 record with Nike.
I have a 0-3 with Nike, and Polt recently lost to Mikehaze in tournament.

Provide more statistics if you can.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Why not. 's MU spread, imo

-2:
-1:
0:
+1:

I don't believe Sonic beats anyone higher than a small advantage, and for some of the ones he does beat, it's due to his sheer mobility and his ability to time out matches.

I hate you a lot.

 

[Delta-cod]

Either Even for Sonic's that have no idea what to do against Yoshi (Cause then their mindset is "CAMP ALL DAY"). Or +1 Sonic's favor for ones that know what the hell they're doing like Espy X or Speed for Example.

The matchup is even at worst. There's no way in hell Sonic beats us; he has no real advantages and has to rely on his trickery. Luckily for him, Sonic has a lot of mixups.

I don't keep track of character specifics, but you beat Neo. Yosh has a either 2-0 or 3-0 record with Nike.
I have a 0-3 with Nike, and Polt recently lost to Mikehaze in tournament.

Provide more statistics if you can.

I beat Neo, Kadaj (twice), Minty (two or three times), and I actively practice with Pierce/Riz (more Marth practice).

Nike also said that Polt scares him, lol.

 

[Mr. Johan]

I hate you a lot.

I regret nothing.

 

[da K.I.D.]

The matchup is even at worst. There's no way in hell Sonic beats us; he has no real advantages and has to rely on his trickery. Luckily for him, Sonic has a lot of mixups.
.

Wow, I didnt think this was going to happen today, but I actually hate you more than storm right now

 

[Delta-cod]

Cool story bro.

Care to explain what Sonic has over Yoshi that would warrant an advantage?

 

[zmx]

Sonic games>Yoshi games

 

[Chuee]

Cool story bro.

Care to explain what Sonic has over Yoshi that would warrant an advantage?

Sonic breaks the sound barrier when he runs.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Cool story bro.

Care to explain what Sonic has over Yoshi that would warrant an advantage?

I didnt say you were wrong about sonic vs yoshi being even, though you might be, its hard to say.

But the whole 'sonic doesnt beat anybody, hes all gimmicks' line was really ignorant, especially considering that you play a WORSE characters thats EVEN GIMMICKIER.

 

[Delta-cod]

I never said anything about Sonic as a whole. I was merely stating that all Sonic really had in the Yoshi MU was his own trickery to get in, which is a valid statement at this time. Sorry for the wording.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I accept your apology on the grounds that you play me at apex so we can be more concrete on our understanding of the match

 

[Delta-cod]

Uggggh. Okay. I'm gonna be picky about when we play it though because it's definitely a long and draining match up. @_@

 

[Steam]

Lucario's IMO since people are doing it :0


-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

 

[Delta-cod]

I lol'd cuz you put Yoshi on the same level as Ganon.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Uggggh. Okay. I'm gonna be picky about when we play it though because it's definitely a long and draining match up. @_@

apparently thats how everyone feels when they have to play you, so I guess its only fair right?

 

[infiniteV115]

Lucario's IMO since people are doing it :0


-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

-2 against Snake? Really?
Seems more like a -1 to me.

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah seems that way to me too.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

imo


-2: :
-1:
0:
1:
2:

 

[Alphicans]

That idealized lucario m/u spread...

DDD at -1?

 

[Fuujin]

Lucario's IMO since people are doing it :0


-2:
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:

>>Implying Yoshi loses to Lucario worse than Zelda.
>>Marth mains implying Zelda does any better than -3 against Marth.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That idealized lucario m/u spread...

DDD at -1?

Idealized?

DDD isn't that bad, even with the Dthrow Usmash, imo.

 

[Steam]

That idealized lucario m/u spread...

DDD at -1?

Snake is much harder than D3... like tons...

Snake is a solid -2 IMO... he just is essentially the antithesis to lucario... he can eat the damage, camp him, stuff his ground options and force him to commit to risky air approaches and kill him early and pretty reliably. and if lucario is ever losing to snake by stock... aura kinda screws him.

D3 could be a -1... especially since no D3s use Dthrow>upsmash... it's just not that horrible. Lucario can camp and reasonably live a long time. not to mention go in on D3 hard when he gets momentum.

@fuujin- Zelda isn't a matchup I know all that well so I don't feel like I can confidently say lucario just bodies her. however I do know it's kinda a ***** to approach zelda if lucario winds up trailing and zelda has potential to captialize huge on minor mistakes... and can kill early. yoshi's kill setups on lucario are very specific and situational... and there aren't many bad situations yoshi can put him in anyways... not to mention lucario can operate near yoshi somewhat safely... cept dat nair.

 

[Fuujin]

Snake is much harder than D3... like tons...


zelda has potential to captialize huge on minor mistakes... and can kill early.

People really like bringing this logic up....
I think would like to have a few words with you guys on why "being able to kill really early" isn't enough to keep a character from being *****, or even enough to help a match up very much.

 

[Steam]

People really like bringing this logic up....
I think would like to have a few words with you guys on why "being able to kill really early" isn't enough to keep a character from being *****, or even enough to help a match up very much.

the difference is the moves zelda has are actually fast and very much landable. with ganon you can kinda stand outside his zone and react to literally anything he does and punish... or pressure him because all his moves or slow... or outspace him... you can kinda do whatever you want to ganon.

zelda has some fast and potent moves, and can make good use of them in many more situations than ganon.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

People really like bringing this logic up....
I think would like to have a few words with you guys on why "being able to kill really early" isn't enough to keep a character from being *****, or even enough to help a match up very much.

Ganon doesn't kill at all, let alone early.

 

[Tesh]

^ this is why i don't understand why ganondorf is listed in the same category as sonic for that matchup.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Different reasons for myself tbh.

 

[Fuujin]

the difference is the moves zelda has are actually fast and very much landable. with ganon you can kinda stand outside his zone and react to literally anything he does and punish... or pressure him because all his moves or slow... or outspace him... you can kinda do whatever you want to ganon.

zelda has some fast and potent moves, and can make good use of them in many more situations than ganon.

Lucario can pressure Zelda the same, if not better than he can pressure Ganon.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ganon had an easier time getting in than Zelda and on the slight chance he is able to get in with his approach it has the potential to be much more rewarding.

Just because a move is landable doesn't mean it's good lol.
Zelda's only reliable kill move on Lucario is D smash.
She doesn't have anything else going for her in that match up.

Ganon doesn't kill at all, let alone early.

But remember, the argument is that he "CAN" kill early.

 

[Ishiey]

Agreeing with Niddo's ratio for Ike vs Wolf, and the general consensus of Lucario vs Wolf being even.

Soinc Storm, what makes Wolf vs Sonic +2/-2? I... really don't think it's that bad. Sonic may not beat a lot of characters by more than +1, but I doubt he loses to that many by more than -1 either, just by virtue of his character design.

 

[Alphicans]

I don't think in both practice and in theory does lucario get ***** by snake.

Saying DDD's don't dthrow to usmash isn't an argument. It's not hard to do, and makes killing lucario easy, probably making DDD the most efficient killer of lucario.

 

[Gnes]

Marth goes even with diddy. I'll keep screaming it from the rooftops as mike beats diddy's other than me

^_^

 

[| Big D |]

DDD beats Lucario. DDD kills early and racks up damage quickly with the chaingrab. Bair is hard to get past.

 

[Steam]

I don't think in both practice and in theory does lucario get ***** by snake.

Saying DDD's don't dthrow to usmash isn't an argument. It's not hard to do, and makes killing lucario easy, probably making DDD the most efficient killer of lucario.

well for some reason top D3s have trouble with it so IDK what to say to that. it's still something that's yet to have any effect on the matchup in practice...

and even if D3s did this consistently, fox would still be the most efficient lucario killer. lol.

fox is like... a sleeper hard counter MU IMO. he's like snake... but dies earlier, is waaaay faster, and has a competing air game. he can basically just play keep away and chip with blaster damage... forcing lucario's approach. Then fox can just pick him apart as his speed forces lucario to commit to unsafe things to try to keep up.

and snake just... is really uphill for lack of a better word. everything lucario does... snake has an answer to that does twice much damage... and kills him earlier. if snake is honestly a -1 then lucario shouldn't have MUs worse than -1 outside of D3 with Dthrow to upsmash stuff if they actually start using it. It's really hard to explain... snake can just kinda do snake things against lucario and win. there's nothing particularly notable each have on each other outside the obvious... but one has a much much better risk reward. not to mention when lucario goes down a stock against snake he pretty much just loses. But Lucarios have been losing to snake since the dawn of time... I know it wasn't way too long ago that june thought the matchup was borderline -3... not sure how he feels now though

@ish- tbh I could see wolf having a +1 on lucario. all the spacies give him trouble.

 

[Nike.]

Marth goes even with diddy. I'll keep screaming it from the rooftops as mike beats diddy's other than me

^_^

blasphemy.

 

[Alphicans]

In recent high level sets it looks like lucario vs snake is close to even. I haven't seen much DDD vs lucario, but that's because it's incredibly rare. I think I saw atomsk vs a lucario. It was a close set I guess, but it seemed he had the set under control.

TBH, I can't see snake ****** anyone except for some low tiers.

 

[Shaya]

Marth goes even with diddy. I'll keep screaming it from the rooftops as mike beats diddy's other than me

^_^

You just don't want your character banned for being broken!

 

[Delta-cod]

apparently thats how everyone feels when they have to play you, so I guess its only fair right?

-dead-

True enough, but there are very few match ups that drain me in the same way.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I like Steam's list for Lucario except that I'm adamant about Mario vs Lucario being even -.-

 

[Tesh]

^ dang this needs explaining. I'm not biased against low tiers having good high tier matchups, but Mario seems like he'd suffer from the common "can't kill early enough to beat Lucario" problem.