Official 2010-2011 Super Smash Bros. Melee MBR Tier List

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

trahh, the fact that I, the infamous mikehaggar, is able to argue with anyone and have the people around not call ME the ****** in the argument says a thing or two about who's right and how ****ing stupid you are. lol.

 

[SSSnake]

Young Link is not tied with Roy.. Roy is so bad.

Make a tier list that based on match-up and not people's difficulties with Jiggs.

roy's up b can ko jiggs if she is at a high level on the field.. so hes okay

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

how is he going to land up-b?

 

[The Good Doctor]

only thing that actually matters is that mewtwo wins the MU.

Too bad she doesn't...
ZING!

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

it doesn't matter if my respond to you was long or not. I was just hoping that I didn't meet your expection.

I called you a ****ing ******** because you had no idea about Japan's skill level back then or even now. I could say the same thing about Nevada's smash scene. I can say that all the players over there are all scrubs and not know about the skill level back then or now.

I typed out 4 paragraphs not 6. Please learn to count.

okay, if were playing the fix typo game.

you just called me a ****ing ********. read that back to yourself and try not to laugh.

It's EXPECTATION

yes, it does matter how long it is...usually the longer something is typed out, the more care that person has for the topic. pretty sure you found it 'worthy' enough, but keep playing your little game

note i said 'like' right before i said 6 paragraphs. meaning estimated, roughly, around. you know this, quit fishing for fixes, especially when you just said that **** doesn't matter as long as you get your point across.

trahh, the fact that I, the infamous mikehaggar, is able to argue with anyone and have the people around not call ME the ****** in the argument says a thing or two about who's right and how ****ing stupid you are. lol.

LOL, pretty sure the reason no one is responding to you is cause they hit the point i'm at with you awhile ago.

 

[KAOSTAR]

i could beleive they were decent if i heard it from a reliable person, but to hear some japanese guy is a better falcon than ss/rain/hax/many others is farfetched but not saying it isn't possible.

so wtf are you saying then. »__«

nobody said he was better. just that having played good falcons mach dash is comparable. who is the best falcon will always be determined by the falcon players (on the WC) by how they play. Im pretty sure the point is MD is a top level falcon. and some how he doesn't live in america lol, go figure.

"some japanese guy"? watch yo mouth son. ignorant as ****. phrase it like this "there is potentially a PERSON better than ss/scar/hax/MANY OTHERS? (ARE OTHER COUNTIES THAT BAD IN YOUR MIND LOL)

and how are you a judge at who is good at judging? its not like toph said mach dash has a power level of exactly 9236 while ss is somewhere over 9000. just MD is probably up there with the top us falcons.

 

[Stevo]

roy's up b can ko jiggs if she is at a high level on the field.. so hes okay

with DI it doesnt even kill jiggs, and its really hard to hit with anyway.

might as well say DK is good versus jiggs cause his side-b can break shields well, which kills jiggs. Good luck landing either of those.

 

[t3h Icy]

Trahh is dumb.

Also, why do people think the Japanese players wouldn't do as well due to FD? Let's see, in Brawl (where stages are incredibly important), people said the Japanese would do poorly and Brood got 2nd, RAIN got 7th, Sweet Pea got 13th and EARTH got 17th, while both Fujita and Suinoku also made it into the bracket after death pools, though they only placed 33rd.

I'm pretty sure Machdash and others in Melee will be fine.

 

[SSSnake]

how is he going to land up-b?

never mind -_-

 

[The Good Doctor]

never mind -_-

Haha, hilarious...

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

so wtf are you saying then. »__«

nobody said he was better. just that having played good falcons mach dash is comparable. who is the best falcon will always be determined by the falcon players (on the WC) by how they play. Im pretty sure the point is MD is a top level falcon. and some how he doesn't live in america lol, go figure.

"some japanese guy"? watch yo mouth son. ignorant as ****. phrase it like this "there is potentially a PERSON better than ss/scar/hax/MANY OTHERS? (ARE OTHER COUNTIES THAT BAD IN YOUR MIND LOL)

and how are you a judge at who is good at judging? its not like toph said mach dash has a power level of exactly 9236 while ss is somewhere over 9000. just MD is probably up there with the top us falcons.

whadyou mean? you literally just said you heard he was the best falcon besides mango. that would imply being better. and yes of course the best falcon is debatable but that doesn't mean you couldn't describe if he was a top level player or not. i'm gonna disagree with your point, cause your pushing your opinion just as much right now mang.

some japanese guy isn't intended to be disrespectful lol, he really is just some japanese guy. i'm jsut some white guy, you're just some X guy, etc. it's more ignorant that you find something so small and irrelevant ignorant.

i wasn't trying to say i'm one to judge who's good at judging. i just meant i wanted to hear from a reliable source (even toph) that these japanese players are very good, and also that this falcon is anywhere near on our top falcon's level, which i don't believe at all. any videos of this guy?

Trahh is dumb.

Also, why do people think the Japanese players wouldn't do as well due to FD? Let's see, in Brawl (where stages are incredibly important), people said the Japanese would do poorly and Brood got 2nd, RAIN got 7th, Sweet Pea got 13th and EARTH got 17th, while both Fujita and Suinoku also made it into the bracket after death pools, though they only placed 33rd.

I'm pretty sure Machdash and others in Melee will be fine.

DURFHURF

because they wouldn't do as well. Why would someone that plays FD all day do as well as someone who plays all the american legal stages? They win FD once, or it gets banned before they even pick it..then it seems like they're stuck on picking something they're uncomfortable with. [unless they practice the other neutrals also, but that would be destroying the topic, considering i meant if they only played Fd]

Also wait, does japan use only FD in brawl also? to just say 'people said they'd do bad then did good' wouldn't really contribute a discussion D:

I don't know **** about brawl but i can gurantee you knowing stages in melee is just as important..

 

[Deleted member]

Could this information be put in the OP just to clear it up? This used to be common knowledge but I know I forgot it, and there seems to be a lot of confusion about it.

1. Does the tier list refer to potential or tournament results.

2. If the tier list refers to tournament results (which it does), what level of tournaments are counted? International tournaments like Apex or Genesis? Or are more high level local tournaments involved too. I don't think puff even comes close to fox's level in local tournaments where Mango and Hbox don't live (I could be wrong).

3. Are exceptions with certain characters (like certain Pikachu and Mewtwo players) supposed to be ignored, slightly ignored, or strongly considered?

 

[KAOSTAR]

@pink reaper-is there any way you could put a sentence or two just touching on some of the placements. idk I think some people may be a little curious.

@trahh-

real talk, mach dash might be the best falcon, idk

thats from an email toph sent me. not my opinion, I don't have one because I have not played MD or any top falcon. I only watch WC falcons cuz they **** .

mach dash is pretty well known and, no disrespect, you not knowing who he is shows a bit of your ignorance.

I made that statement under the assumption you knew who he was and was saying some japanese guy. if its not meant like that its no big deal, just coupled with things you were saying seemed a little harsh.

with DI it doesnt even kill jiggs, and its really hard to hit with anyway.

might as well say DK is good versus jiggs cause his side-b can break shields well, which kills jiggs. Good luck landing either of those.

she will probably die if it happens on a platform.

definitely on stadium and battle field yoshi.

fd it kills no di and ur di won't offset the "lowers ceiling" from the platforms or from the stage.

idk if its even possible to live without frame perfect di from a platform.

that said tho, I do think yl is better than roy lol.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Guys this is the new tier list thread, try to keep the discussion away from "Does japan suck or not"

 

[rhan]

roy's up b can ko jiggs if she is at a high level on the field.. so hes okay

with DI it doesnt even kill jiggs, and its really hard to hit with anyway.

might as well say DK is good versus jiggs cause his side-b can break shields well, which kills jiggs. Good luck landing either of those.

never mind -_-

Exactly...

 

[NJzFinest]

But DK is actually good vs Jiggs.

HBox vs Mexican and RockCrock, oh snap.

 

[Wretched]

You guys are crazy
I agree to disagree about the tier list, but its just a tier list. its not like the mbr came out and said "we are the best. this tier list is the ultimate guide to the potential in each character."
why don't we as a community come together and decide on our own tier list. we'll vote for each characters position based on potential (thats what everyone wants) and assemble a list. Then we can't yell at the back room for being the back room

 

[P. O. F.]

I find it funny how barely no mbr member is telling us why these results are the way they are and the fact that HAX is 100% against this list.

Lol.

 

[Pink Reaper]

As a general statement I'd just like to point out that we as the MBR are the best and that this tier list is the ultimate guide to the potential of each character.

 

[hungrybox]

But DK is actually good vs Jiggs.

HBox vs Mexican and RockCrock, oh snap.

I used to think that too, and then I remembered uptilt to rest.

 

[DJMirror]

okay, if were playing the fix typo game.

I know my english and grammar are terrible, I always try to fix them. If I see a mistake, I just correct it. So I just practice correcting them. If you think that I'm playing that game...Nope you're wrong since you're implying it like that.

read that back to yourself and try not to laugh.

Yeah I'll admit that I made a mistake on spelling/adding that "a" on accident and I got a good laugh at it but I also saw this:

i'm over it dawg

and this:

Then if you're over it why are you respond back? What's your point?

Sorry but I couldn't stop laughing at your respond. Maybe I should offer you this:

read that back to yourself and try not to laugh.

yes, it does matter how long it is...usually the longer something is typed out, the more care that person has for the topic. pretty sure you found it 'worthy' enough, but keep playing your little game

Not really, I can type out essay about that has nothing to do with the subject that we're talking about right now mixed with some bs and we'll see if anyone cares about it

quit fishing for fixes

You fished for it first when it didn't contributed to anything what I said. You bought it upon yourself.

Honestly, I can play your little game all day. You said you're over it but you keep respond back like a little kid who's want attention about his crappy *** details about some "scrubby" community that you think you know about. At least it's not scrubby like Nevada.

LOL, pretty sure the reason no one is responding to you is cause they hit the point i'm at with you awhile ago.

LOL, pretty sure the reason why you're responding back to me is because my facts are hitting the point at you awhile ago and you're just saying stuff that you don't know about as if you think you know about what you're talking about.

Mike on the other hand, knows what he's talking about.


Right Mike?

 

[otg]

This thread has gotten ******** in such a short amount of time.

Good **** melee community.

 

[Wretched]

As a general statement I'd just like to point out that we as the MBR are the best and that this tier list is the ultimate guide to the potential of each character.

<3
to the guy above me, you know that half of this thread are people complaining about how stupid the thread and the list are?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Now Marth does lose to Falco

There is a lot in your post I disagree with but most of it is fairly reasonable and well-argued so I don't mind. However, I find this statement to be false to a huge degree. I used to think that this matchup was 55/45 in Marths favor but the more I learn about it, the more I think it is actually 60/40. Marth beats Falco. I honestly don't think it is arguable the other way around.

The "Jiggs is too high" arguments are pretty baffling, considering that this tier list honestly places Jiggs as low as is justifiably possible.

My favorite has to be the "Jiggs is too high" plus the "This is based too heavily on tourney results!" combo argument. If it was based on tourney results purely, Jiggs would be in its own top tier, so for all the people who (for whatever reason) are so passionate about Jiggs being too high, why don't you just be grateful that Jiggs wasn't placed higher than a 3-way tie, which was probably done only to try to limit the amount of huge terribly wrong walls of text that would result.

I love this post.

<3 Niko.

 

[dilling]

I agree that Doc should be moved up with Samus and Ganon. As much as I would like Sheik higher, her placement in tourneys is lacking. M2K plays her sometimes, Amsah does well, and Lucien does well locally, but her representation is less than stellar.

 

[nicaboy]

Djmirrior vs Trahhsteezy final d only!

Its ****ing on! Its going down tonight ladies and gentlemen!

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Not really, I can type out essay about that has nothing to do with the subject that we're talking about right now mixed with some bs and we'll see if anyone cares about it

Right, but the fact that you would care enough to type that essay out (even if it was meaningless) would show you did it for purpose. if someone just typed out an entire essay just to prove that point wrong then okay.

You fished for it first when it didn't contributed to anything what I said. You bought it upon yourself.

You do realize what the very first post I quoted from you on this was, right? "Trahh you're ****ing ********" Not only did you start it, but you didn't contribute anything in the process. You're being very hypocritical dude.

Honestly, I can play your little game all day. You said you're over it but you keep respond back like a little kid who's want attention about his crappy *** details about some "scrubby" community that you think you know about. At least it's not scrubby like Nevada.

Okay I think you're getting confused because you've responded to two things that wasn't directed to you.. once again, when I said I was over it, I was talking to mikehagger, and that was reffering to being over me and his discussion. i felt like our topic wasn't doing anything. So i was over that. you are completely irrelevant to that.

LOL, pretty sure the reason why you're responding back to me is because my facts are hitting the point at you awhile ago and you're just saying stuff that you don't know about as if you think you know about what you're talking about.

This is the second thing that wasn't directed to you..don't you see the quote right above it directed to mikehagger?

okay i'm done, sorry reaper.

 

[Siglemic]

I don't mean to sound bias. I tried to be reasonably unbias. Sorry about that, man.

What made that sound bias? I tried to avoid saying, "this character's good, but just because I'm saying so." But I don't mean to be a jerk if I came off that way.

i just think you ignored puff and falco's weaknesses and marth/sheik's strength's A LOT while writing that is all

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Both Space animals beat Marth.

 

[john!]

LOL, pretty sure the reason no one is responding to you is cause they hit the point i'm at with you awhile ago.

this contains truth

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

It's about freaking time indeed. Glad to see puff on top tier. Interesting how you broke down the tiers.

 

[DJMirror]

Right, but the fact that you would care enough to type that essay out (even if it was meaningless) would show you did it for purpose. if someone just typed out an entire essay just to prove that point wrong then okay.



You do realize what the very first post I quoted from you on this was, right? "Trahh you're ****ing ********" Not only did you start it, but you didn't contribute anything in the process. You're being very hypocritical dude.

Yeah I called you ****ing ******** but you forgot the fact that I was talking about the fishing the fixes not this about me calling you a ****ing ******** which I'll admit that I did.

You asked me how you're ****ing ******** so I took my time to answer it out by giving out the facts and stuff. Care? LOL! I only typed that much because I'm at work 75% of times (If you know me in person, you'll know why) and I was bored so I typed out that much to practice so if you think I "care" then you're wrong. Don't think that you're special because I "care" to type out that much. I was only doing that to practice. You know that I said something about that too.

Okay I think you're getting confused because you've responded to two things that wasn't directed to you.. once again, when I said I was over it, I was talking to mikehagger, and that was reffering to being over me and his discussion. i felt like our topic wasn't doing anything. So i was over that. you are completely irrelevant to that.

Yeah I know but I can't help for the fact that you're still making dumb posts and ignoring **** by saying "I don't know what you mean"

I like that your avatar fits you: Vegata, yeah he kick *** and **** for now later he get his *** handed and he proves to be dumb, stupid, prideful and ignorant like you.



@Pink Reaper, I won't respond back unless this ignorant fool does first.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

I like that your avatar fits you: Vegata, yeah he kick *** and **** for now later he get his *** handed and he proves to be dumb, stupid, prideful and ignorant like you.

but later after that doesn't vegeta ultimately win with goku after going ss4? holy **** ****

 

[Mew2King]

Carl

idk about offroad but the magazine said that heavier chars had better top speeds

ive tested it its not true

and by weights i made a list long ago
1)bowser
2)dk

3) wario

4) mario
5)luigi

6-7)yoshi/peach tie (so isnt peach as good as yoshi? why does everyone use yoshi then)

8) toad (best char for racing? why is yoshi EVER used then?)

my tier list was
1)toad (for racing, not as great for battle mode though
2)yoshi/peach (if they are the same....)
4) Wario (better than all the chars below him and pretty heavy to boot. There's no reason to use mario or luigi when you can use wario with his superior weight and acceleration)

big gap of nothing

5)bowser then DK
7) mario then luigi (same stuff but marios' heavier.. if there's offroad stuff that's different then i stand corrected)

 

[V3ctorMan]

Not trying to get too off topic.. but we should try to get ON topic..

We should all get along everybody you know...

Instead of arguing.. about what we're now arguing about... we should argue about how amazing Yoshi is...
(if you wanna)

On topic however, no more arguing with each other, etc.. you know? it's ok to have differences, but what we should be doing maybe.. is discussing/planning... on possible changes, etc.. or even what we all "as a community" players can do/show to improve on the metgame an develop ideas/strats and stuff..

sound good?

idk... jus tryin to make a suggestion is all everyone

 

[ShadyMilkman]

Perhaps "Underrepresented Tier" would be a better name than "Negligible"

EDIT: Or maybe Under-developed

 

[Silk]

This tier list means next to nothing without a detailed explanation of the parameters observed in coming to each spot's conclusion. The reason that all-encompassing tier lists like this always fall short and end up drenched in controversy is because the lists are often formed by combining multiple seta of data that may or may not be related.

People try to make a tier list by drawing data from the following subsets of information:
-Individual character matchup matrices
-Tournament results
-Personal opinions regarding character potential
-Individual-player dominance over a current metagame

And the community wonders why the overall tier-list product receives criticism...

While, in theory, it could be possible to create an overall list that takes all the above subsets into consideration, the problem is that the individual judges assign arbitrary or drastically-differing values of worth to each subset with respect to one another.

That huge problem aside, another one awaits for the judge even if they can someone weigh each subset equally. It's because, in a sense, even these subsets take on a certain rock-paper-scissors quality when comparing them.
-Tournament results are at the whim of which of the community's dominant players are in attendance, not to mention that many good players can, and do use multiple characters throughout a tournament
-Character matchups are at the whim of not only tournament results, AND at the whim of said results being skewed by a "better" character running into a "worse" character controlled by a much better Player, but also hypotheticals relating to each character's "potential"... considering that many character's realized potentials have evolved greatly over the years, this is another touchy one.
-Character potential is often at the whim of not only experienced player input, but also of data-backed tournament results and realistic character-matchup analyses based on our current metagame.


In short... making any kind of perfect tier list is impossible (or only approaches certainty as the lifespan of the tier list approaches 0 seconds) due to ever-changing factors and judges' misconceptions, inexperience and bias... though introducing a tier list with a "margin of error" of sorts, something around +/- two tierlist spots, could work lol.

IMO, just make a compendium thread linking the matchup thread, tournament results thread + the CRL thread for melee I remember seeing a while back, and let people draw their own conclusions. After all, that's how this list is formed in the first place lol.

Topic ended right here.

The rest of the posts seem to mostly consists of people arguing...mainly over things that don't even involve tiers

 

[Teczer0]

Carl

idk about offroad but the magazine said that heavier chars had better top speeds

ive tested it its not true

and by weights i made a list long ago
1)bowser
2)dk

3) wario

4) mario
5)luigi

6-7)yoshi/peach tie (so isnt peach as good as yoshi? why does everyone use yoshi then)

8) toad (best char for racing? why is yoshi EVER used then?)

my tier list was
1)toad (for racing, not as great for battle mode though
2)yoshi/peach (if they are the same....)
4) Wario (better than all the chars below him and pretty heavy to boot. There's no reason to use mario or luigi when you can use wario with his superior weight and acceleration)

big gap of nothing

5)bowser then DK
7) mario then luigi (same stuff but marios' heavier.. if there's offroad stuff that's different then i stand corrected)

Wtf even is this? At least talk about melee m2k >_>

Not trying to get too off topic.. but we should try to get ON topic..

We should all get along everybody you know...

Instead of arguing.. about what we're now arguing about... we should argue about how amazing Yoshi is...
(if you wanna)

This, its fine to argue but in a you know more civilized way. I've seen a lot of like censor dodging and flaming in a few pages back that a few of you should be penalized for.

Keep it civilized and you guys are all good.

Btw, Yoshi has like the coolest shoes ever. Means absolutely nothing but seriously....

 

[V3ctorMan]

Wtf even is this? At least talk about melee m2k >_>



This, its fine to argue but in a you know more civilized way. I've seen a lot of like censor dodging and flaming in a few pages back that a few of you should be penalized for.

Keep it civilized and you guys are all good.

Btw, Yoshi has like the coolest shoes ever. Means absolutely nothing but seriously....

OMG, Teczero, your awesome! ^^

and yeah I know what you mean.. i was just trying to flip the thread around, and talk about "nice" things, rather than all of us argue, and start unecessary flaming and stuff...

Sorry if it was a bad idea. i was jus tryin to think of something

 

[t3h Icy]

Mario Kart 64 stuff

The tier list for Mario Kart 64 is as follows:

Upper:
Yoshi
Peach
Toad

Middle:
Bowser
DK
Wario

Lower:
Mario
Luigi

The Upper characters have identical stats except for weight, and Yoshi is slightly heavier than Peach (if the two collide, Peach will spin out). Middle and Lower characters also have identical stats, but the heavyweights are significantly heavier than Mario and Luigi, though both pairs of Wario/DK and Mario/Luigi are very small in differences.