[NSW] Boost: REBOOT - Sunday, the 11th of September 2011

[Shaya]

Ness wants you in the water at all times, taking aerials like a boss. Plus the time period inbetween him not having any thunder out into being in the water is miniscule. His (and Lucas') jump curve around, giving freedom to avoid attacks whilst planting you in water, most characters will die to one of the most powerful and high priority spikes in the game at like any percent.

And Scoot, do you beat this strategy? I know I can, yet I still think it's stupid. Matches shouldn't be about stalling (why we have a ledge grab rule). It's why I detest Distant Planet as a CP too, it's a saddistic stall match on the two stages if you play them properly.
Players/characters can beat planking, why are there rules against it then? (Not just here, but at major tournaments around zah world).

 

[swordsaint]

I've played this strategy twice. Once in tournament where I lost and once in friendlies with Ricky where I was figuring out ways around it. I'm pretty confident I could beat the strategy now, but without any prior knowledge no.

 

[Shaya]

Do you agree a strategy that is based completely around stalling in a stupidly advantageous position should be legal when we have things like ledge grab rules, contention of rainbow cruise being banned or not, and stages like NORFAIR being banned?

 

[Toby.]

LOL rainbow cruise!

Here's how to win, kids!
Step 1:Whoever you are up against, pick rainbow cruise as your counterpick. Even if its the worst stage for your character.
Step 2: Pick Metaknight.
Step 3:have fun for 7 minutes.
Step 4: Proceed to the next round/win money!

There are a number of characters that totally **** on this stage. So you can swap MK for one of these if you want (hello wario and GW! have fun with your free wins as well!).

Now lets look at it from the other perspective:

Situation 1:You're playing against somebody who doesn't main any of these characters. They main a character who is bad on rainbow cruise. So you ban their best stage. BAM, they CP'd cruise and went metaknight. If you banned rainbow cruise they would simply take you to their characters best stage.

Situation 2: You're playing against a person who mains these characters. Oh noes! You HAVE to ban rainbow cruise, but what about the wide variety of other stages they **** on? Hmmm.

So basically you always have to ban rainbow cruise, unless you use Metaknight, Mr Game & Watch, Wario or Zero Suit Samus, since you also have a great advantage on the stage.

So the moral of the story is: use metaknight or wario

Edit: lol water camping <3

 

[Shaya]

Oh toby.

Don't be repeating what I've said (at least something similar) 500 years ago, it makes me blush =).

It's why when I made a stage list for Hunter1 I had Japes and RC banned. Two stages which were usually in the CP list.
I think various characters can overcome Japes, especially with a ledge grab rule in place.
RC on the other hand... hahaha

Hence, it's meta knight time, amirite Toby?

NANANANNANAN BAT MAN META KNIGHT

TO THE META KNIGHT CAVE CRUISE, ROBIN TOBY.
COME PICK UP YOUR UNDERWEAR THAT YOU WEAR OUTSIDE YOUR PANTS.

 

[M]

Pirate Ship banned is a low blow for me. =(

Really, if its that hard to get around my watercamping (which I can assure you, there are quite a few methods), can't you just ban it against me, rather than permabanning it, leaving this low tier main with almost no alternatives? >.>

It's all he has to help fight Snake. A good Marth can still win. etc etc

 

[swordsaint]

The answer to your question is no shaya. I don't think it SHOULD be legal.

Also as you said Shaya, Norfair got banned. Why not RC? -.-

If ledge-stalling is banned, so should any OTHER form of stalling/planking.

Well at the very least limited.

 

[Shaya]

You sure you aren't just wanting to NANANANANNANANANNANANANANA BATMAN it up on Rainbow Cruise?
Your meta knight's pretty good ricky =)

Low blow for you isn't right. It's a stall stage. Am I wrong with calling it a stall stage? Is there a reason why Norfair was banned for a similar reason? Yes.

 

[S.D]

LOL rainbow cruise!

Here's how to win, kids!
Step 1:Whoever you are up against, pick rainbow cruise as your counterpick. Even if its the worst stage for your character.
Step 2: Pick Metaknight.
Step 3:have fun for 7 minutes.
Step 4: Proceed to the next round/win money!

There are a number of characters that totally **** on this stage. So you can swap MK for one of these if you want (hello wario and GW! have fun with your free wins as well!).

Now lets look at it from the other perspective:

Situation 1:You're playing against somebody who doesn't main any of these characters. They main a character who is bad on rainbow cruise. So you ban their best stage. BAM, they CP'd cruise and went metaknight. If you banned rainbow cruise they would simply take you to their characters best stage.

Situation 2: You're playing against a person who mains these characters. Oh noes! You HAVE to ban rainbow cruise, but what about the wide variety of other stages they **** on? Hmmm.

So basically you always have to ban rainbow cruise, unless you use Metaknight, Mr Game & Watch, Wario or Zero Suit Samus, since you also have a great advantage on the stage.

So the moral of the story is: use metaknight or wario

Edit: lol water camping <3

Remember when you 2 stocked my Metaknight on RC Toby?

I must suck XD

 

[Bjay]

Aw I see my post got deleted

As for the whole tripping discussion, just leave it on.

As for Rainbow Cruise, I'm cool with whatever.

 

[M]

You sure you aren't just wanting to NANANANANNANANANNANANANANA BATMAN it up on Rainbow Cruise?
Your meta knight's pretty good ricky =)

Low blow for you isn't right. It's a stall stage. Am I wrong with calling it a stall stage? Is there a reason why Norfair was banned for a similar reason? Yes.

It's a stall stage for like, 2-3 characters. Ness has enough problems as a character to rely on stage elements such as water. Characters that plank on Norfair are those that can take matches fairly well without pushing that extreme, and have enough alternative counterpick stages to work with.

Ness doesn't have many. Hell, he has like 2 that are actually useful for him. Without Pirate Ship, Ness has pretty much only Delphino, which actually makes life difficult when facing a Snake, MK, or some other things. Not to mention being Ness' only resort now, it's clearly the stage people would ban against me in this situation. And every other stage is completely "meh" for Ness.

 

[swordsaint]

That's the part where you pick stages that are weaknesses for the other character.

And Ness does have other good stages dependant on matchup. Not necessarily a universal counterpick, but saying he would only have one counterpick if Pirate Ship was banned is just wrong.

 

[D0N]

nevermind this

 

[EverAlert]

Keep tripping in. Changing gameplay mechanics gets icky with deciding what to change and also the availability of Wiis that can employ the changes (people may expect to trip and play accordingly on a Wii they think doesn't have the code when it actually does, and vice-versa; even if they know what codes are on, having to alter their playstyle for different Wiis in the first place is icky).

I think the stalling rules need to be more definitive. "You MAY be DQ'd for stalling if you avoid conflict" seems very arbitrary, etc.

Also I disagree with (some of) the suicide rule; see below.


Regarding whether Rainbow Cruise or Pirate Ship should be counterpicks: personally I don't care, removing them is good for me, but I believe they are viable counterpicks. I also think Japes is worse than Cruise.

I'm fine with the neutrals as long as we can't stage strike; bad HV memories.


About some codes I have on. None of them change gameplay, but there are a few weird ones that I'm not sure you (Shaya)/people will be fine with. From memory, the full list of codes I currently have on are:

File Patch 3.5.1
Infinite Replays
Names in Replays
Unrestricted Pause Camera
Unrestricted Replay Camera
Unrestricted Costumes
Unrestricted Button Mapping (not sure about this one, but it's been in there in the past)
One-Player Matches
One-Team Matches
Default Rules (using the current Australian ruleset as of Western Sydney 4)
Hold L for Giga & Co. (w/ related codes, CSS otherwise unchanged)

The Giga & Co. code was added in recently so I could choose Popo as a character (mainly for solo climber ditto MMs). Technically you can also choose Giga etc. as characters, but that should be easy to police in terms of tournament usage. Other than that, I don't think there's anything too extremely iffy in there, but there's the list just in case.

With Kirby and D3, it becomes a sudden death. It only shows the other character winning if they break out just before they die, and kirby/d3 dies instead.

Uh. There may be some controller port shenanigans I may be unaware of, but afaik whether it's win, loss or sudden death depends on the sucked character's size. For this reason I disagree with the rule; with Ganon/Bowser the result is always the same for every character, but the controller port affects win or sudden death. However (regardless of controller port stuff), the result with Kirby/Dedede changes depending on the character. AFAIK this is why the SBR ruleset only applies the rule to Ganon and Bowser.

so yeah, sounds like it would be rather easy for me to come down, drop my **** off and drive over to pick up ea at the station no?

This would be a godsend for me and anyone staying at mine for the tourney. :3

 

[swordsaint]

it's pretty simple.

Kirby and d3's swallow moves will become sudden death if both characters die

however, if the swallowed character is shown as winning, afaik it means that they broke out of the swallow move just before the boundary, kirby/d3 was in lag and they died earlier

 

[Pirate.]

What a nicely laid out thread, namely the first 2 posts.

I've gone over 25 ledgegrabs accidentally with some tether chars, not for stalling reasons.

Pokemon, pft, why dont we just flip a coin then play scissors paper rock instead. Do u play on shoddy battle ever ricky?

Tim do u watch flight of the conchords? Does anyone not watch flight of the conchords ?

Worst part about tripping is the several times its tripped me when in went for a correct tech-chase -> usmash from GaW's down throw. Game-breaking i say -_-.

EA are all those codes PAL compatible or do you have an NTSC wii? if the former, would u mind posting the text file .
Also Shaya, do you have an NTSC wii? because your able to have that shield colour change thing.

questions, questions .

edit: oh yeah also, look at this: http://www.cracked.com/funny-1735-super-smash-bros./

 

[EverAlert]

I have a PAL Wii, but NTSC Brawl. Codes are NTSC, sorry (although the majority of codes are PAL-ported, check the Smash Workshop).


Scott - You said that before, and I already disagreed. Add something to your comments that I haven't already responded to.

 

[Shaya]

Remove the giga stuff.

Anything suss will result in me throwing in my SD card.

I don't play differently at all for whether tripping or not is in, I know it's there, but I still dash dash dash.
It however does give free kills to characters like Ice Climbers that shouldnt have happened in the first place, rate broken.

TBH, I don't see having several set ups with one or the other (tripping on/off). On/off shouldnt mean much to most normal matches, I'd only forcefully want OFF if it's a reasonably important match.

I have Pal Wii, NTSC brawl.

-

Meteor,
You want to know what Low Tier character can win just about every match up by stalling on a stage, and I would bet it to be one of that low tier characters only really good counter pick stages?
Jigglypuff on Norfair.

Stall stages shouldn't be legal. You shouldn't be arguing to me that the stage should be legal because "my main can epicly STALL ON THAT STAGE IN AN ADVANTAGEOUS POSITION TO BEAT MATCH UPS WITH STALLING"
It's legal in doubles. But whilst general understanding of the tactic allows you to take on two players at once and WIN (by taking 5 stock... by stalling...), then it shouldnt be legal. Not even NORFAIR is that bad that a character can win 2 on 1. Are you the type to want Wobbufet as a non-uber?

-

Hunter was terrible because it was ****ing ROUND ROBIN. Meaning you had to play TWENTY ODD MATCHES on the same stage.
It's stage striking with 3 stages. Or we could do the old 5 stages, lylat cruise anyone?
Pools will be ted's (or whoevers) system with the 4 stages, 1 strike each and playing on the remainding two.

 

[EverAlert]

I like Lylat Cruise.

I also like the pools striking system.

Changing mechanics is still icky imo.

I'll remove the Giga code if you want, tbh I don't see why it's a problem, but you're the TO. :3

 

[SummonerAU]

How can you not like Smashville Shaya? Everybody loves Smashville.
I'd say just play with tripping, it's a part of brawl, just play melee if you don't like it that badly. Glancing blows on the other hand...
People don't edit pokemon to give consistent damage to attacks(Hopefully they don't, that's just silly).
Both players are affected by random tripping, it happens.

 

[Shaya]

Well if you want to play friendlies on it in the morning/later in the day...

I think me having an SD card with all 'okay codes' and put it in the right wiis is best...
Although... I have an NTSC brawl... I'd need to get a copy of the right codeset on my SD card for PAL too.

Oh EA

Yeah, ambiguity sucks.

* Stalling is the act of deliberate avoiding of conflict that makes the game unplayable. Avoiding conflict whilst the player is LOSING (stock/percent) can be considered stalling.
Repeated ledge grabs is not considered stalling. However, staying on the ledge when there is no immediate danger to you (and you aren't attacking) as to allow you to continue the fight onstage may be called for stalling and excessive amounts may invoke forfeits. Pausing the game for anything other than serious reasons, or not informing the opponent first can have the game forfeitted.

"as to allow you to continue the fight onstage may be called for stalling and excessive amounts may invoke forfeits."

This it how it goes.
Take Meta Knight, Game & Watch or Marth, planking on the ledge.
Saying 'stop planking' isn't right, you're at an advantageous position being on the stage with them on the ledge if they attempt to get back on.
So repeated ledge drop aerials if you get too close.

What if I step away a good distance away from the ledge? There is no reason for you to remain on the ledge, percent up or not. You can be called for stalling.
Generally, Meta Knight infested America has this come up often; it's stupid that you have to give up a good position (which will be if you don't have percent lead), but it's worse for them to remain on the ledge arguing they're just keeping themselves safe from the opponent's edge options. Being called to return to the stage in this situation is common, and I'm fine with really anyone doing this if someones planking for any noticable period in this situation. If it's happening enough, or they stay on the ledge, "i.e. GET OFF THE LEDGE KID" I may call for a forfeit.

The only planker who can 'stay on the ledge' whilst still attacking is Pit and ROB. ROB doesn't do to well at all though. But even that can be called for stalling if the other player just plainly moves out of way so you can't hit them.
The ledge grab rule regulates this as well.

 

[Toby.]

Remember when you 2 stocked my Metaknight on RC Toby?

I must suck XD

Your metaknight did suck at the time

You didn't know how to play cruise with MK, and furthermore you didn't know how to play against pokemon trainer with metaknight. That made the counterpick somewhat flawed.

I still <3 you though. Just don't be pulling silly stuff like that when you could just beat me consistently with peach or diddy

 

[ComboTurtle]

im a little bit tipsy, but i briefly looked over the last 32 or so pages and all i got was rainbow cruise is good, pick rainbow cruise vs everybody. protip kthx

 

[EverAlert]

Shaya - Thanks, that makes sense. Also: what about if I'm not on the ledge, but still running the timer? i.e. Bowyering or DMGing.

How would that be called?

 

[ComboTurtle]

Edited for content

 

[tibs7]

turtle mannn, is that real? if so that is sooo screwed up..omg face in 2 .....

 

[fruityman]

*charity voiceover*
This...is Fruity. Everyday, players like Fruity have to live off supplies of level 9 CPU and 1P modes, like Classic and Adventure mode.
But with every smash tourney you host near new players like Fruity, you can help give them the essential skills they need to compete in competitive smash, such as smash DI, SHFFLing and comboing.
With every tourney you host, you can help make a difference to players like Fruity, and give them a better quality of gaming. *end voiceover*

I couldn't help it. I am so glad that I can finally come to another smash tourney! Tysm!!!1!

 

[Melancholy]

There will be no SHFFLing unless melee gets organised :S

 

[EverAlert]

There will be SHFFing though.

 

[Vyse]

Turtle, that wasn't so bad til we got a close up of his face. lol.

I had to remove it though :X
Sorry bout the infraction but rules is rules, etc.

EDIT: But man...MAAAAAN.

 

[Shaya]

fruity =)

Are you still able to come with gords not coming either?

Also, someone else that only a few of us "OLDER" brawlers would know.
And a few of the meleers too.
Was at my first tournament, made it through swiss, and wasn't at any of the others.

He says he'll be coming on the 27th, so "new" faces all about.
Maybe he'll post?
SAMUEEEEEEEEEEEL.

P.S. Confirm attenance on AiB
http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=7399

 

[fruityman]

Ya, Ill be there on the 27th if that's what you're asking I also confirmed on AiB.
I'll be making my own way to and from the venue on the day.
Did you want me to bring anything in particular? (aside from GC controller and all the rest of it of course)

 

[Melancholy]

My reaction to Turtles video:

Shaya, do I need to confirm through AiB as well or is here enough? I don't have an account there, I've never used that site...

 

[Shaya]

Don't need to, no.

Makes my life a little tiny intsy bit easier though.

Uhh fruity, I doubt you can bring a tv, but do you have a wii with homebrew? if so, thats a helpful contribution :D

Oh fruity,

say you attended

http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=7162
and
http://allisbrawl.com/ttournament.aspx?id=7160

Boost 2/3.

 

[Melancholy]

Well I might just do it anyway, in case I have to for future tourneys

 

[F_T_S]

although the video was taken off...by the comments about the face im assuming it was the one with the guys face split in two after he jumped off a ledge into the water (btw they are both different spliced clips, the guy with the face split in 2 is of an attempted suicide with a shotgun, yes i have friends who know about all that)

 

[fruityman]

unfortunately, I don't have wii w/homebrew or a TV that I'd be allowed to take with me.
But yeah, just makin' sure.

 

[gopobox]

F_T_S

Why aren't you complaining about HSC?

 

[F_T_S]

F_T_S

Why aren't you complaining about HSC?

because i don't like you

 

[gopobox]

You make me very sad F_T_S