[NSW] Boost: REBOOT - Sunday, the 11th of September 2011

[luke_atyeo]

welcome enemy, snake main?

and lol at christian bale trying to get the role for snake in the mgs movie, as if they wouldnt cast david hayter, he'd be king for the role (or kurt russel lol if only he wasnt so old)

 

[Enemy]

Nah, snake isn't my main, I just thought the pic was cool. I main as link.

David Hayter would be awesome in the mgs movie if they decide to make one, although Christian Bale has the looks and the voice to pull it off if they don't cast David. I'll just be happy to see a half-decent mgs movie (as if they weren't already movies amirite!?).

 

[Melancholy]

I main as link.

I predict a very happy Scabe

 

[S.D]

Would this bring you back to playing Brawl again so if we team we actually do good?

Eh, we still do good, we just lose the close ones these days.

 

[SummonerAU]

Hayters gun Hayt

 

[Enemy]

I predict a very happy Scabe

Lol, I wish I was that good. I still need to practice moar.

Hayters gun Hayt

Haha, I was hoping some one would come up with a hayter pun. I frikking love puns.

 

[...Ellipsis...]

Remove the ledge grab rule.

 

[Leisha]

Ledge grab rule is ghey =<

Please destroy it shaya <3

 

[swordsaint]

Yes, let's totally make the game worse than it already is. What? Ledge grab rule is good. I think too many characters are near impossible on the ledge, and why are you trying to make the game campier than it already is?
You're giving advantages to characters people either don't use, or already have advantages with, and taking away advantages for characters that people DO use, but aren't winning anyway.

Pointless change. The reason people don't go over 25 ledge grabs on a time out is because the rule is in place. If it were to be removed, I reckon anyone who wants to win will start breaking that old rule, because they have easier tactics now.

Silly.

Why do you want to promote heavier camping, and longer games on an already overly long game? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Nova]

Get rid of it.

 

[Alzi]

If someone was playing gay on for edge too me i would pause the game then scream so loud any swear word that comes to my head then take a deep breath and then continue on with the game playing so intense that i gimp them so badly they cry.

Nah it depends if you have anyone in your state who does every exceed 25 limits. Since the only way you can exceed it is on purpose you can never do it by accident. Having the ledge grab rule is quite pointless anyway what if someone quickly presses start after the game ends and you never got to see the limit lol.

 

[Silfa]

It's not really necessary I feel.

If people begin to abuse ledge grabbing with the intent of timing someone out, then putting it in place would make sense. I forgot there was a ledge grab rule to be honest, lol.

 

[Vermy]

If someone was playing gay on for edge too me

......what?

 

[Nova]

If someone was playing gay on for edge too me i would pause the game

Lose instantly if you pause.
And
What Vermy said.

 

[Shaya]

Is Ledge Camping ... BROKEN?

If its a legitimate strategy, why do we remove that whilst a Falco can shdl you over and over?

 

[SummonerAU]

Vermy, is that an image of Mars Guo from episode one...?

 

[luke_atyeo]

Nah, snake isn't my main, I just thought the pic was cool. I main as link.

David Hayter would be awesome in the mgs movie if they decide to make one, although Christian Bale has the looks and the voice to pull it off if they don't cast David. I'll just be happy to see a half-decent mgs movie (as if they weren't already movies amirite!?).

looks maybe, voice lol no, not even close, and his characters are too 'angry' to fit snake.

the only person I know who will ever ledge camp is isaac/throwback, and its not a broken tactic at all for samus, no ones gonna gay anyone.

 

[tedeth]

Ok. It is reasonable to remove the rule, as long as there are strict and outlined ledge stalling rules in place.

Like the whole "If you're not being threatened and you still plank" rule is good, but we need to outline what "being threatened" actually is. Like if I'm at their max edgeroll distance, am I threatening them? Or do I need to be on the other side of the stage to be not threatening? If I have a projectile an I spam it over the edge, am I threatening them?

If rules like this could be agreed on, the edgegrab limit would be obsolete and unnecessary. Just saying "Get rid of it" is asking for people to be ultra gay. I know Shaya will say "We already have that rule in place" or something about the whole stalling thing, but it's not clearly enough defined. Having someone tell you after a match "Technically you were breaking this rule" is way to arguable without it being in writing exactly what constitutes ledge stalling.

 

[Splice]

Does the allowance of planking with unlimited grabs affect character viability?

Like was the tier list done with unlimited planking in mind, or with the ledge grab rule in place in mind?

If you could plank unlimited, GaW should be higher on the new tier list.

Anyway, those 2 rulesets would actually change how good some chars are, so im wondering if they were taken into consideration when making tier list 4?

 

[C~Dog]

It was done assuming people will be as gay as possible, hence Pits rise.

 

[Vermy]

Vermy, is that an image of Mars Guo from episode one...?

Yes. Yes it is. Why? Glad you asked. Everyone who was at Jei's meat understands that this is now a meme. Mars guo appeared for 3 seconds to say "RAWR!" and explode. Hilarious. And so "RAWR" *explodes* will spread.

 

[C~Dog]

I ****ing hate that meme.

 

[SummonerAU]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267257

blehblehlbleh

 

[SummonerAU]

I only know because I used to use Mars Guo heaps in podracer

 

[swordsaint]

Ok. It is reasonable to remove the rule, as long as there are strict and outlined ledge stalling rules in place.

Like the whole "If you're not being threatened and you still plank" rule is good, but we need to outline what "being threatened" actually is. Like if I'm at their max edgeroll distance, am I threatening them? Or do I need to be on the other side of the stage to be not threatening? If I have a projectile an I spam it over the edge, am I threatening them?

If rules like this could be agreed on, the edgegrab limit would be obsolete and unnecessary. Just saying "Get rid of it" is asking for people to be ultra gay. I know Shaya will say "We already have that rule in place" or something about the whole stalling thing, but it's not clearly enough defined. Having someone tell you after a match "Technically you were breaking this rule" is way to arguable without it being in writing exactly what constitutes ledge stalling.

I agree with Ted on this. It's ok to plank the ledge as long as there's stipulations. Ledge planking doesn't fall under my understanding"stalling" because you're in a place that can be reached. It's just a tactical advantage, but it'll just make the competitive players less fun to play.

Hell, I'm so rusty, that if the ledge grab limit is removed for Boost, you can guarantee that I'll unrust my Metaknight instead of Falco and just plank the ledge.

 

[Nova]

lol
Fine.
People can outgay me if they want.
I generally don't play gay.
Just with the "Gaga" tag. But if people want to sit there humping the ledge all day, then have a blast.

@ Ted
Yeah I've never really had anyone play ultra gay at me.
I'm sure I would have had I gone to America with you guys.
But yeah, not in this country, but I can seeeeeee how it could be annoying.
btw this is not an invitation for someone to start playing gay at me.
Or I'll rip organs out. Seriously.

 

[Shaya]

Ok. It is reasonable to remove the rule, as long as there are strict and outlined ledge stalling rules in place.

Like the whole "If you're not being threatened and you still plank" rule is good

Its not a rule, its a recommendation. I cant really DQ anyone under that pretence.

Strict outlined ledge stalling rules?
They cant exist.
Really...
Especially because you can argue that camping on the ledge is NOT stalling (except maybe Meta Knight).

 

[swordsaint]

You can still reach Metaknight, you're just in an unfavourable position.

 

[CAOTIC]

You're only now thinking about removing the ledge grab rule? I want my victories back! BOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[Sieg]

looks maybe, voice lol no, not even close, and his characters are too 'angry' to fit snake.

the only person I know who will ever ledge camp is isaac/throwback, and its not a broken tactic at all for samus, no ones gonna gay anyone.

Kojima pretty much said himself that if there was an MGS movie that he would want Viggo Mortensen to play Snake.

 

[luke_atyeo]

theres one in semi-production (lol halo) but the director in charge of it has it postponed/on hold beacause of kojima expressing concerns that a bad movie would damage the popularity of mgs, in other words, they are too dumb to realise that david hayter is the man for the job, espcially since he's a voice acter second and a scriptwriter first (and they rejected his script )

viggo would be so ****

 

[Gords]

Strict outlined ledge stalling rules?
They cant exist.

isn't that what the ledge grab rule was, a strict outlined ledge stallng rule? As in a way to prevent a method of stalling in a clear defined way?

Anyways. I agree with Ted and scoot. I believe it should be there. It only comes in to play when the match is timed out and only applies to the person who is stock/% leader after the 8 minutes iirc.
However I believe 25 grabs is too low since certain characters can reach this without actually stalling. 25 ledge grabs over a match that is timed out (since this is the only situation the rule is used) which is 8min equates to an average of about 1 ledge grab every 19 seconds. Hardly stalling IMO.

I say the Rule should exist but at a more realistic than someone with taking a match to time with a ledge grab every 19s. If someone was to stall for a time out using ledge camping they would be spending more time on the ledge. Maybe about 1 ledge grab every 10seconds. Therefore the ledge grab rule should be about 48 grabs.

Another way to calculate it to be more realistic would be to use a bech mark Percent that would be considered to long on the ledge to be stalling.
I am not sure what this would be since I am not sure how long would be considered too long. Using this bench mark and the time it takes some one to grab the ledge when using it for stalling ( which would include the grab animation, the invincibilty frames and then some more for common stalling tactics, which again I am not too sure on how long the knowledgable players would consider this to be) you could calculate the ledge grab rule amount. So as an example let's say that if a person spending 30% of the game on/near the ledge is considers ledge stalling and that each ledge grab used for stalling is 3sec then can work out the ledge grab number.
30% of 8 min (480s) is 144s
144/3 is 38 ledge grabs.
So following these number this means that if a person with stock/% lead after a match that is timed out has 38 or more ledge grabs then they were considers stalling and are DQed and loses that game.

Note: these numbers are only as an example since they are easy to work with The more skilled and knowledgable players of the metagame should discus what values should be used for % considered stalling and how long a ledge grab used for ledge camping normally takes.

 

[swordsaint]

I don't think it should be analysed that in depth, but the rule should be there. The only change that needs made in my opinion is the number of grabs. I'd say about 35 or 40, That way you can plank, but you can't play 100% of the match on the edge. It'll give people the chance to play on the ledge more for drawn out games and for the characters that in the loosest sense of the word "need" the ledge to be viable but would still force them to play on stage at times too.

The fact that not many games have been timed out isn't a real reason to not have the limit. It's there for the few that do, why should we promote those who rely on the ledge for 8 minutes?

Just a bad example, but let's say that someone made finals who employs this tactic and they go for all 5 games.

8 x 5 = 40 minutes for one set, not including character, stage, etc etc.
And increasing the time limit (which was a suggestion Shaya gave) would just make the games take longer.

Don't fix what's not broken.

Shaya: as for Falco's SHDL, comparing that to ledge camping doesn't even make sense. They're entirely different. People can approach and punish lasers. Literally speaking, some characters can't be beaten on the edge.

 

[luke_atyeo]

8 x 5 = 40 minutes for one set, not including character, stage, etc etc.
And increasing the time limit (which was a suggestion Shaya gave) would just make the games take longer.

already happens

 

[tedeth]

Contrary to popular belief (for some reason), me and Shaya have never actually gone to time. We've come close, but have never taken the full 8 min. 7:40, sure.

I don't see why so many people have an issue with the rule really, we've only had 1 instance where it wasw employed, possibly the only instance in all of Australian smash, and that was with the limit at 50!

Still would be interesting to remove it and see how quickly things went super gay. I guarentee that I'd be abusing it like crazy if we didn't have some rules down to stop it. lol.

 

[Shaya]

Show me how regrabbing the ledge is actually BROKEN (as in what stalling generally covers: not being able to be touched). Applying the rule to MK only (atm) seems to be the only... realistic option.

I dont know about you scoot, but if I recall correctly, DEHF has been timing many meta knights out recently with the power of shdl and side bing away. He is employing what you would call stalling tactics.

 

[tedeth]

Applying the rule to MK only is actually quite reasonable. As DMG's data showed, MK is by far the best at planking and is really the only one who can remain close to untouchable by employing the tactic. If something like that were to happen I'd be fine with it. Most characters have ways of forcing most other characters of the edge, or at least creating some danger for them.

This could lead to the potential changing of a few matchups too. Would be at least interesting to see which directiuon the metagame went in.

I mean, when you think "edgegrab rule" you think "Metaknight" anyway.

 

[CAOTIC]

I agree with the MK-only ledge grab rule. I'll be going to this with Billy/Booker, since we're going to a Sharks game the night before. I'll be more than happy to show anyone the first half of the Thriller dance in-between matches.

 

[Sieg]

I dont know about you scoot, but if I recall correctly, DEHF has been timing many meta knights out recently with the power of shdl and side bing away. He is employing what you would call stalling tactics.

Is this really the way you want the game to go though?

I'd be pretty sad if camping out planking was standard in my metagame.

 

[swordsaint]

Mmhm. I think the cons outweigh the pros for removing the ledge grab rule. I actually don't see any pros at all for removing it, except that Falco's gonna have less effect, and that's a con for me Shaya.

In any case, I'm not DEHF. I don't time people out with lasers, I never intend to do so cos that's boring as ****. I'll play campy Falco if I need to, but I make sure I still play enough up close to beat the clock. In any case, that requires getting a percentage lead first, if I did plan to camp with lasers, and they're still not as safe or as good as the ledge.

You can plank the ledge as soon as you're tied in percent and just hit someone when the timer goes down, from a perfectly safe position. Where you're getting invincibility. Tell me where lasers have invincibility?

They're incomparable.

Without the rule, the metagame would head in a terrible direction, it'd wouldn't be interesting at all.