Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[Nidtendofreak]

Most of it works at any % as for what they are suppose to do. The Nair -> Jab doesn't, but I already mentioned that it's only at low %s. The throws onto the platform obvious depend on the platform and opponent % (silly Dthrow, trying to be a killing move at high %s). But if one doesn't work, the other one will.

The stuff from Fthrow and Bthrow again, depend on opponent %, but the dash attacks have a very large range they work in. (40% range on average if you are in the back end of that range, Dash attack is knocking off stage a fair ways) QD will work pass that range due to the fact it goes farther, and by that % the opponent will get knocked back too far to punish it.

Jab is fast enough to work. It's frame 3 for crying out loud, you're not going to be able to see that coming and block it. And while you are constantly expecting Jab, we can just fair you instead. Or just go straight for the grab. Or use nair first. Or RARBair/Uair (Uair hits behind Ike twice, out lasts spotdodges, can poke the top of shields)

We have options, and we know how to use them.

EDIT:

I don't want to get into a dumb debate, I'm really tired at the moment.

Ike is bad. Avoid his Jabs and DSmash/FSmash, he gets punished hard.

All it takes is a Shieldgrab, every single d@mn time.

That being said, I'm not saying your Ike is bad or anything. Nothing personal. I've just been ****** Ike's since Brawl came out. I've probably never seen an Ike place well in an IRL Tournament.

But again, predictable as hell.

Yes, avoid something you can not physically react to in time. And why the heck would we be randomly throwing out Dsmash and Fsmash? That's like a Yoshi randomly throwing out Egg Roll.

If all you had to do with shieldgrab everything, why do Ikes win tournaments? Because that doesn't work. Have fun shield grabbing Fair with the vast majority of the characters in the game.

No, my Ike sucks. My reaction time is terrible. However, I have a lot of information in my head, which I can use instead.

Please, play better Ikes. Go play Kirk or Ninjalink's Ike.

 

[Flayl]

I don't want to get into a dumb debate, I'm really tired at the moment.

Ike is bad. Avoid his jabs and DSmash/FSmash, he gets punished hard.

You don't get to do that. "I'm tired so I'm not going to explain this but here's my opinion. Also don't counter my opinion, cause like I said, I'm too tired"

Ikes, afaik don't even DSmash and FSmash often. You must be talking about wifi Ikes. I can make generalizations about avoding Yoshi's OverB, doesn't mean any Yoshi worth his salt is going to use it.

Also, people are putting a bit too much emphasis on how predictable Ike is. Welcome to Brawl, where almost all of the characters have ~2 approach options and a camping option.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Gee, I wonder what attack he's going to use first?

Quote of the thread.

 

[Zankoku]

If all you had to do with shieldgrab everything, why do Ikes win tournaments? Because that doesn't work. Have fun shield grabbing Fair with the vast majority of the characters in the game.

What? My records show two Ike players winning tournaments in the past three months. Incidentally, if you're also counting Wifi, tournaments, it would also completely explain why such things cannot be "physically reacted to in time."

But, after all, if the only actual fast thing to worry about is that 3 frame jab, "avoiding" it would best be done by never getting in range of it, right?

 

[.Marik]

And here we go.

Yes, good Ikes may give people a run for their money.

But honestly? The lag on his moves are terrible. He gets punished extremely easily.

Jabs>Combo's are quite good, so is Bair and Uair. The list goes on. He kills fast, takes stocks off easily.

Only if opponents get hit. The hitboxes on his moves aren't even that great, and avoiding most of them shouldn't be a problem.

Bleh. I can't think today. I never said he was 7th worse, but he's not that much higher either. Granted, he has a few viable options, but even then, he's so slooooooooooow. Gets. Punished. Quite. Easily.

@ Flayl: Lol ETS and ECE.

*Edit* Lol what Ankoku said about range of Ike's jabs.

 

[Kewkky]

Stop bandwagoning!

I could suggest something that might help your cause: Ike gets gimped easy if he falls for an attack whose purpose was gimping. Other characters have some options in which to come back to the stage, but if you knock Ike horizontally/diagonally away from stage/downwards, he is doomed to die more than half the time.

 

[SilverDoc~]

Pit should be the bottom of high tier

Fox should go up

Luigi needs to go up

Sonic needs to be higher as well as jigglypuff

Zss needs to go up

Diddy kong needs to be 5th or 4th

Ice climbers should be 9th instead of 10th

Wario should go up

Rob needs to go down a bit

DK needs to go down.

GnW down

Marth down 1

 

[MorphedChaos]

Wario should probably be no. 3, hes beastly and kinda owns all of top tier besides Marth. That and he goes even with MK.

 

[ThatGuy]

I think MK deserves to move up on the list a bit.

 

[Chis]

This whole Ike thing sounds like all the bashing Sonic used to get. Isn't being 'predictable' player dependent?

lmao @ Fsmash

 

[AvariceX]

Pit should be the bottom of high tier

Fox should go up

Luigi needs to go up

Sonic needs to be higher as well as jigglypuff

Zss needs to go up

Diddy kong needs to be 5th or 4th

Ice climbers should be 9th instead of 10th

Wario should go up

Rob needs to go down a bit

DK needs to go down.

GnW down

Marth down 1

Jiggs needs to be at the bottom with Link. Can't believe I'm saying this but Falcon needs to go up a bit. After all the Falcon stuff I learned from Ally he's at least better than Link and Jiggs.

I agree with all the rest.

Other than that, PT definitely needs to go up, Ike should go down just a little, and I'll hold in my opinions on Ness and Lucas

Also

Ike isn't predictable if he sticks with three attacks and his grabs? What, is every Ike player equivalent to Drephen or something?

sigged.

 

[Flayl]

@ Flayl: Lol ETS and ECE.

What in the ****?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ike's can win but there's a difference between your character winning for you and you simply outplaying your opponent.

 

[.Marik]

What in the ****?

Lol, come on down to the Yoshi Boards and find out for yourself.

 

[Kewkky]

Everytime someone makes a list, there has to be at least one person basing that guy for the list (or opinions) that guy posted...

To evade that, I suggest all the characters move up a spot. That way, everyone goes up on the tierlist and no one goes down!

 

[Nefarious B]

This whole Ike thing sounds like all the bashing Sonic used to get. Isn't being 'predictable' player dependent?

If you don't have options to begin with then no, it's not.

 

[AvariceX]

Everytime someone makes a list, there has to be at least one person basing that guy for the list (or opinions) that guy posted...

To evade that, I suggest all the characters move up a spot. That way, everyone goes up on the tierlist and no one goes down!

^And Mewtwo is still at the bottom

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Everytime someone makes a list, there has to be at least one person basing that guy for the list (or opinions) that guy posted...

To evade that, I suggest all the characters move up a spot. That way, everyone goes up on the tierlist and no one goes down!

lol. I love you.

 

[Flayl]

Lol, come on down to the Yoshi Boards and find out for yourself.

Why should I? If you can't bother to find out what moves Ike uses often, why should I visit a board to find out what these obscure acronyms mean and what their techniques entail?

 

[Espy Rose]

Just out of curiousity - why do you think that?

Because Sonic is garbs compared to pretty much everyone else above him.

Sonic shouldn't make it out of low tier, because he just isn't that good.

 

[Crizthakidd]

sonics always place so well in tournies tho.

and wtf reflex is skewing the pt numbers lol.

mk
snake
ddd
wario
gnw
diddy

 

[MarKO X]

is reflex really ****ing with the PT numbers?

 

[Sharpevil]

Ganondorf is going Up Up Up.

Guess how many Ses are going to be in the name of his tier? I'll give you a hint. It's the same as the noise a snake makes.

Sssssssssss.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Metaknight
Snake

Wario
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Falco
Mr.Game and Watch
Marth

Ice Climbers
Olimar
R.O.B
Pit
Pikachu
Kirby
Lucario

Donkey Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Toonlink
Wolf
Peach
Luigi
Fox
Sonic
Zelda/Sheik

Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Lucas
Mario
Ness
Ike
Bowser

Jigglypuff
Samus
Link
Captain Falcon

Ganondorf


@Fromundaman: Yes, Ganon does deserve his own tier as last.
@TheMadIkeGuy: Yes, I do think Ike is the seventh worst in the game. That's my opinion, live with it.

 

[Morrigan]

I don't think they'll put Sheik And Zelda together. Not that I'm against it.

 

[Deathcarter]

MK
Snake
Wario
Dedede
Diddy Kong

Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Falco
Olimar

R.O.B.
Kirby
Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong
Peach

Wolf
Shiek
Luigi
Fox
Sonic
Bowser
Pokemon Trainer

Zelda
Ike
Ness
Mario
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Lucas
Samus

Link
Captain Falcon
Ganondorf




My thoughts. I hope to see some big changes in the official tier list and I try to reflect that in my list.

 

[tehf1r3]

Metaknight
Snake

Wario
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Falco
Mr.Game and Watch
Marth

Ice Climbers
Olimar
R.O.B
Pit
Pikachu
Kirby
Lucario

Donkey Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Toonlink
Wolf
Peach
Luigi
Fox
Sonic
Zelda/Sheik

Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Lucas
Mario
Ness
Ike
Bowser

Jigglypuff
Samus
Link
Captain Falcon

Ganondorf


@Fromundaman: Yes, Ganon does deserve his own tier as last.
@TheMadIkeGuy: Yes, I do think Ike is the seventh worst in the game. That's my opinion, live with it.

I can't imagine Bowser ever being that low. He ***** the erst of that crap tier you put him in. Literally. He has the grab infinite thing on Lucas and Ness that Marth has, and winning matchups against them all im sure. As for Ike, he actually has some sort of metagame... shouldn't that put him above the chars who don't have as much as he does (PT, Ness Lucas, yoshi)?

 

[Palpi]

sonics always place so well in tournies tho.

and wtf reflex is skewing the pt numbers lol.

mk
snake
ddd
wario
gnw
diddy

That is good cept switch diddy and G&W.

 

[Kewkky]

Metaknight
Snake

Wario
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Falco
Mr.Game and Watch
Marth

Ice Climbers
Olimar
R.O.B
Pit
Pikachu
Kirby
Lucario

Donkey Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Toonlink
Wolf
Peach
Luigi
Fox
Sonic
Zelda/Sheik

Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Lucas
Mario
Ness
Ike
Bowser

Jigglypuff
Samus
Link
Captain Falcon

Ganondorf


@Fromundaman: Yes, Ganon does deserve his own tier as last.
@TheMadIkeGuy: Yes, I do think Ike is the seventh worst in the game. That's my opinion, live with it.

Kirby is 14 on that list.......... He should be at LEAST 13! He's a stand-alone character, unlike ROB, who gets his *** handed back to him by a lot of people! And yes, I'm biased because he's my main, but I'm also smart enough to know when I'm blinded by personal preference, and when I'm not.

Kirby can handle any stage, goes well against almost any character, has a good moveset, his grab game is good, his attack's priorities are great, is difficult to gimp, has 6 jumps and an upB, a projectile (although I don't use it), a spacing attack, can survive to decent %s thanks to DI+momentum cancelling, has a relatively easy learning curve, and a 'combo' that can rack up damage from 0-45%. Seems like lots of good things in his favor! Not to mention he goes even with MK (definitely) and Snake (when you put player skills in the picture, not just character skills)!

His only downsides are: his projectile's reliability, and lack of mid/long-range attacks... And these aren't gamebreaking. The fact that he's underrepresented in the tournament scene doesn't mean he's a bad character overall, it just means people would rather stick to the 'better' characters rather than spend the extra time developing one that isn't as great as the top 5.

[/tantrum_because_he_wants_Kirby_higher_in_your_opinion]

 

[Deathcarter]

I can't imagine Bowser ever being that low. He ***** the erst of that crap tier you put him in. Literally. He has the grab infinite thing on Lucas and Ness that Marth has, and winning matchups against them all im sure. As for Ike, he actually has some sort of metagame... shouldn't that put him above the chars who don't have as much as he does (PT, Ness Lucas, yoshi)?

Pokemon Trainer has more going for him than Ike does. Squirtle alone is confirmation enough on that fact.

 

[IxxI]

Guys! I found the tier list leak!
I present to you all the Tier List V 3.0

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

See? Even idiots know about the steak!

I think he's severely misunderestimating Kipachu.



Edit: Also. Where did you get that? lol

 

[IxxI]

Lol, on April Fools day, Gheb01 posted it as a joke in place of the current tier list the entire day.
I took a screen shot because it was just too good.

Edit: I still lol @

"All other characters are banned "

 

[ook]

----S TIER----

Meta Knight
Snake

----A TIER----

Marth
Ice Climbers
Donkey Kong
Mr.Game and Watch
King Dedede

----B TIER-----

Olimar
Falco
Toon Link
Diddy Kong
Wario
Lucario

----C TIER-----

R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Pikachu
Yoshi
Samus
Kirby
Jigglypuff

----D TIER-----

Wolf
Sonic
Ike
Luigi
Fox
Link
Bowser
Peach
Zelda/Sheik
Captain Falcon

----E TIER-----

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Ganondorf
Pokemon Trainer

 

[Melomaniacal]

----S TIER----

Meta Knight
Snake

----A TIER----

Marth
Ice Climbers
Donkey Kong
Mr.Game and Watch
King Dedede

----B TIER-----

Olimar
Falco
Toon Link
Diddy Kong
Wario
Lucario

----C TIER-----

R.O.B.
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Pikachu
Yoshi
Samus
Kirby
Jigglypuff

----D TIER-----

Wolf
Sonic
Ike
Luigi
Fox
Link
Bowser
Peach
Zelda/Sheik
Captain Falcon

----E TIER-----

Lucas
Mario
Ness
Ganondorf
Pokemon Trainer

Most accurate tier list ever made, IMO.

 

[Kewkky]

Guys! I found the tier list leak!
I present to you all the Tier List V 3.0

I saved that pic under the name of 'Tier List v3.14'... Am I allowed? It made me smile in 3 different ways...

 

[Palpi]

Most of it works at any % as for what they are suppose to do. The Nair -> Jab doesn't, but I already mentioned that it's only at low %s. The throws onto the platform obvious depend on the platform and opponent % (silly Dthrow, trying to be a killing move at high %s). But if one doesn't work, the other one will.

The stuff from Fthrow and Bthrow again, depend on opponent %, but the dash attacks have a very large range they work in. (40% range on average if you are in the back end of that range, Dash attack is knocking off stage a fair ways) QD will work pass that range due to the fact it goes farther, and by that % the opponent will get knocked back too far to punish it.

Jab is fast enough to work. It's frame 3 for crying out loud, you're not going to be able to see that coming and block it. And while you are constantly expecting Jab, we can just fair you instead. Or just go straight for the grab. Or use nair first. Or RARBair/Uair (Uair hits behind Ike twice, out lasts spotdodges, can poke the top of shields)

We have options, and we know how to use them.

EDIT:



Yes, avoid something you can not physically react to in time. And why the heck would we be randomly throwing out Dsmash and Fsmash? That's like a Yoshi randomly throwing out Egg Roll.

If all you had to do with shieldgrab everything, why do Ikes win tournaments? Because that doesn't work. Have fun shield grabbing Fair with the vast majority of the characters in the game.

No, my Ike sucks. My reaction time is terrible. However, I have a lot of information in my head, which I can use instead.

Please, play better Ikes. Go play Kirk or Ninjalink's Ike.

Ike's don't win tournaments with viable representation of high/top tier characters. Not even close.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Lol, on April Fools day, Gheb01 posted it as a joke in place of the current tier list the entire day.
I took a screen shot because it was just too good.

Edit: I still lol @

"All other characters are banned "

Oh. I was having computer problems that day. Can't believe I missed it. T_T


Awesome though.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What? My records show two Ike players winning tournaments in the past three months. Incidentally, if you're also counting Wifi, tournaments, it would also completely explain why such things cannot be "physically reacted to in time."

But, after all, if the only actual fast thing to worry about is that 3 frame jab, "avoiding" it would best be done by never getting in range of it, right?

It's three currently, the newest one hasn't been posted due to the fact the tournament was 6 days ago + slow posters + they lost the bracket and are trying to sort everything else first.

That's more wins then the two guys above him.

And lol at the "just don't get in range of the jab" argument. I guess then ICs are crap. I mean, all you have to do is stay out of their grab range, and their grab is over twice as slow as Ike's jab....OH WAIT, THAT ARGUMENT DOESN'T WORK! OH SNAP!

And I was talking mainly about jab for things you can not physically react to in time. I believe Bair and the Grabs are also too fast. Don't give me the wifi crap, Ike does even worse on wifi.

The hitboxes on his moves aren't even that great, and avoiding most of them shouldn't be a problem.

Having the most disjointness on your hitboxes, and top 3 overall non-projectile range isn't great? Then everyone in this game must be crap when it comes to range.

This whole Ike thing sounds like all the bashing Sonic used to get. Isn't being 'predictable' player dependent?

Sonic is hovering 16th-20th in tournament results. Everyone needs to be foolishly bad talking another character now I guess. I'm taking bets now on if it will last longer then the Sonic bashing. 3-1 odds it will last longer.

Ike's don't win tournaments with viable representation of high/top tier characters. Not even close.

Thats why Kirk beat a Falco to win his tournament, Ike's 2nd worse match-up. >_>

And why San beat an MK twice to win his tournament.

 

[Palpi]

Than that MK is bad and that falco is bad. Both of those tournaments had little to no representation of good players. Obviously that falco player was under-par as is the MK.