Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[Melomaniacal]

Than that MK is bad and that falco is bad. Both of those tournaments had little to no representation of good players. Obviously that falco player was under-par as is the MK.

Dude, you've never heard of A Falco, or An MK?
They are both amazing players, at the top of the metagame.

 

[Kewkky]

Than that MK is bad and that falco is bad. Both of those tournaments had little to no representation of good players. Obviously that falco player was under-par as is the MK.

Too bad the Ike still won the tourney, eh? If they're hard counters, then even under-par Falcos should be able to destroy Ikes... A victory is still a victory, his name is on the #1 spot.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Too bad the Ike still won the tourney, eh? If they're hard counters, then even under-par Falcos should be able to destroy Ikes... A victory is still a victory, his name is on the #1 spot.

I beat a friend using Ganon against his Sheik. That's the hardest counter there is (one of, at least).
Doesn't mean crap, because he's terrible.

 

[Chis]

Than that MK is bad and that falco is bad. Both of those tournaments had little to no representation of good players. Obviously that falco player was under-par as is the MK.

Because you where at the tourney in person right?

Assumptions =/= Fact

 

[Palpi]

Where are there names at a regional or national tournaments?

 

[Metatitan]

About hard counters, if a player is truly horrible and another one is really good, it doesn't mean squat. My jigglypuff can take down really bad gw's, doesn't mean the matchup is 50:50 tho. It's still a 20:80 matchup gw's favor, my opponents just didn't know how to fight that well.

 

[Kewkky]

I beat a friend using Ganon against his Sheik. That's the hardest counter there is.
Doesn't mean crap, because he's terrible.

Umm... I have no idea if this is intended to be a joke or not.

The Ike player still had to get by everyone else, not just the Falco/MK in that tourney. Making it past everyone and avoiding making any fatal mistakes means that Ike can win tourneys, I mean, he's won the 3 that people have mentioned. And no, I'm not about to start talking about "Oh, but Ike at the top levels of play i sgoing to get obliterated!". That wasn't a top tourney, and so the Ike was good enough to win... Which meant bypassing a Falco/Mk in a whole set.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

And lol at the "just don't get in range of the jab" argument. I guess then ICs are crap. I mean, all you have to do is stay out of their grab range, and their grab is over twice as slow as Ike's jab....OH WAIT, THAT ARGUMENT DOESN'T WORK! OH SNAP!


Sonic is hovering 16th-20th in tournament results. Everyone needs to be foolishly bad talking another character now I guess. I'm taking bets now on if it will last longer then the Sonic bashing. 3-1 odds it will last longer.

Icies have Ice Blocks and desynched blizzards and stuff to help him get into range. All Ike rally has are spaced fairs and the fact that he's scary.


lol Sonic's been getting bashed before the game came out and he's STILL getting bashed by a lot of people. You'd lose that bet.


san is sick. I saw a match of him vs. Owna. It was awesome.

 

[Palpi]

If put the best ike against the best falco player, you will see why beating a falco player doesn't mean that much concerning the tier list.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Umm... I have no idea if this is intended to be a joke or not.

The Ike player still had to get by everyone else, not just the Falco/MK in that tourney. Making it past everyone and avoiding making any fatal mistakes means that Ike can win tourneys. And no, I'm not about to start talking about "Oh, but Ike at the top levels of play i sgoing to get obliterated!". That wasn't a top tourney, and so the Ike was good enough to win... Which meant bypassing a Falco/Mk in a whole set.

I was half-joking.
I'm just saying, if you pit one of the best Ikes there is against a inexperienced or poor MK/Falco, of course the best Ike will win. He will have better matchup experience, etc, etc.

Yes, I'm assuming, because I don't know who "a Falco," or "an MK," is.

 

[Kewkky]

If put the best ike against the best falco player, you will see why beating a falco player doesn't mean that much concerning the tier list.

And no, I'm not about to start talking about "Oh, but Ike at the top levels of play is going to get obliterated!".

Thank you, come again. A victory is still a victory, saying whatever you want to say won't change the fact that Ikes have won tourneys, sorry!

Plus I don't care about his placing in the tier list, I'm just taking a swing at what you said, that the tournament doesn't count because it had no representation of good players. Even so, Ike won the tourney.

 

[Palpi]

I don't care if they win a tourney. Happy for them, but you can't use a tourney in weak areas that has little representation of high/top tier characters as proof that ike should be higher on the tier list or that Ike is a viable tournament character.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Thank you, come again. A victory is still a victory, saying whatever you want to say won't change the fact that Ikes have won tourneys, sorry!

Yes and no.
You really can't ignore the skill level of the players involved, especially since the tier list is supposed to be based off the metagame (meaning both opponents are in the metagame). And in the metagame, Ike will almost never win a tournament.

 

[ook]

I was at the tourney that Kirk won with Ike (granted it was like 6 months ago), and I can vouch that the Falco (Arty) is a pretty d*mn good Falco....

Last week he got 5th at a regional/local tourney, only losing to Lain and Judge (who got 1st and 2nd, respectively, and I'm sure you know are really really good).




So yeah. The Falco was good, and wasn't just "some scrubby falco".

 

[SuSa]

A victory is a victory, eh?

So a Pro Ike beats a Scrubby Falco, should that change Ike's tier spot? No.

Dumb logic is really dumb. It's like saying Ike has an advantage in a matchup because a Ike has beaten a _____ (insert character in ______)

 

[Kewkky]

Yes and no.
You really can't ignore the skill level of the players involved, especially since the tier list is supposed to be based off the metagame (meaning both opponents are in the metagame). And in the metagame, Ike will almost never win a tournament.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7501273&postcount=7924

Is Pokemon Trainer supposed to win tourneys? Just asking...

So a Pro Ike beats a Scrubby Falco, should that change Ike's tier spot? No.

Plus I don't care about his placing in the tier list, I'm just taking a swing at what you said, that the tournament doesn't count because it had no representation of good players. Even so, Ike won the tourney.

Like I said, I'm just pointing out that the victor of the tourneys was Ike, so Ike's victory means Ike can win tourneys. And I also stated that I'm not talking about top levels of play. Come on, SuSa, read my posts! -_-

I mean Ike has a lot of 6-4 disadvantage match ups and it is possible to win with him and do well at some tournaments if you are significantly better than your opponent but at the peak of his metaknight game, like how tier lists are made there is no chance in him winning against the best of the best.

And no, I'm not about to start talking about "Oh, but Ike at the top levels of play is going to get obliterated!".

Why is everyone misreading what I write, or reading just what they want...?

 

[Palpi]

I mean Ike has a lot of 6-4 disadvantage match ups and it is possible to win with him and do well at some tournaments if you are significantly better than your opponent but at the peak of his metaknight game, like how tier lists are made there is no chance in him winning against the best of the best.

 

[Melomaniacal]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7501273&postcount=7924

Is Pokemon Trainer supposed to win tourneys? Just asking...

Well, in theory no, but when you have a top pro and the best with that character playing people who obviously don't have a lot of experience in that matchup, of course it's possible.

Don't get me wrong, it's possible for any character to win a tournament. The player just has to be significantly better/more experienced than his opponents to win with a worse character.

 

[Palpi]

Kewkky the point you are trying to prove (If you can even call that a point) is absurdly stupid. Captain falcon has won tournaments before... who the **** cares?

 

[Chis]

People should stop making assuptions.

 

[Deathcarter]

Well, in theory no, but when you have a top pro and the best with that character playing people who obviously don't have a lot of experience in that matchup, of course it's possible.

Don't get me wrong, it's possible for any character to win a tournament. The player just has to be significantly better/more experienced than his opponents to win with a worse character.

As far as Pokemon Trainer goes, you have to remember that Reflex was able to take a match off of M2K with PT. Sure, it is only a match, but not only does M2K adapt on the fly, but he lost a match to a player using a character SEVEN tiers below his own main. That has to count for something.

A LOT more characters are more viable in Brawl than initially meets the eye; you don't need a player who makes the other top players mediocre to make the majority of the cast viable (unless they are facing M2K; he is just too good). They just gotta not run into their hard counters (and most viable characters have less than two hard counters in the top tier anyway).

 

[Jigglymaster]

Best of Luck to Jigglypuff on the tier list >_<

Get that char outta Bottom Tier srlsy.

 

[Palpi]

Are you maining him yet? I don't wanna see you play diddy anymore! Jiggs is too pro.

 

[Melomaniacal]

As far as Pokemon Trainer goes, you have to remember that Reflex was able to take a match off of M2K with PT. Sure, it is only a match, but not only does M2K adapt on the fly, but he lost a match to a player using a character SEVEN tiers below his own main. That has to count for something.

A LOT more characters are more viable in Brawl than initially meets the eye; you don't need a player who makes the other top players mediocre to make the majority of the cast viable (unless they are facing M2K; he is just too good). They just gotta not run into their hard counters (and most viable characters have less than two hard counters in the top tier anyway).

M2K beat Reflex. Yes, it's great and all that Reflex took a game off of him, but then again, M2K also likes to sandbag. But that doesn't matter, regardless of how it happened, M2K won. It probably won't happen again (Reflex taking a game off M2K with PT).

What does "a lot more viable" mean? Like... viable enough to not come in last?

 

[Kewkky]

Kewkky the point you are trying to prove (If you can even call that a point) is absurdly stupid. Captain falcon has won tournaments before... who the **** cares?

Since my first post in this series of posts, I was merely stating that Ike DOES win tournaments, and in the same post, I wrote that "I'm not talking about top-levels of play". If my point is absurdly stupid, then you trying to disprove my absurd (yet obviously true, according to your Captain Falcon line) statement, is even more absurd, as you are dragged by a conversation (i never intended to argue) in which you yourself think is not true. Changing my mind won't change Nigtendo's mind, and the points you're trying to prove are pretty vague, since you're forcing them down my throat when I'm just pointing a simple fact out to correct a single point you said.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Are you maining him yet? I don't wanna see you play diddy anymore! Jiggs is too pro.

Too bad Jigglypuff will probably never be a viable character regardless if she moves up.

I'm still using Diddy lol.

 

[BSP]

I think ness will move above lucas, and luigi might make it into D tier.
-Edit-
I read a wario guide and it seems that he doesn't many bad matchups. He might go up too.

 

[Palpi]

Too bad Jigglypuff will probably never be a viable character regardless if she moves up.

I'm still using Diddy lol.

So your livesteam main is still jiggs puffster? You could've won that match against hylian and dojo if u didn't rest! Full charge fsmash on both and you could've gayed out hylian like you usually do lol

Jiggs is always viable in my heart.

 

[Zankoku]

It's three currently, the newest one hasn't been posted due to the fact the tournament was 6 days ago + slow posters + they lost the bracket and are trying to sort everything else first.

That's more wins then the two guys above him.

To be fair, being better than Lucas and Yoshi isn't saying much, either.

And lol at the "just don't get in range of the jab" argument. I guess then ICs are crap. I mean, all you have to do is stay out of their grab range, and their grab is over twice as slow as Ike's jab....OH WAIT, THAT ARGUMENT DOESN'T WORK! OH SNAP!

Uhhh, yeah it does? The only reason anyone ever gets in range is because their character happens to be unable to handle desynched iceblocks or something. Or they're just dumb. But I sincerely hope we're talking about the level of play where it's the former, not the latter. You know how ICs players have trouble with Peach, Zero Suit Samus, and Diddy Kong? Guess why? Here's a hint - it has to do with grab range, and staying out of it.

And I was talking mainly about jab for things you can not physically react to in time. I believe Bair and the Grabs are also too fast. Don't give me the wifi crap, Ike does even worse on wifi.

His jab, bair, and grabs are indeed relatively solid parts of Ike's moveset. So with that in mind, how do you plan to consistently bait the opponent into coming within range?

 

[MrEh]

Bowser needs to move to SSS tier.

 

[Jigglymaster]

So your livesteam main is still jiggs puffster? You could've won that match against hylian and dojo if u didn't rest! Full charge fsmash on both and you could've gayed out hylian like you usually do lol

Jiggs is always viable in my heart.

I just wanted to make the best possible ending since I still had to kill a low % pro G&W who hard counters Jigglypuff.

I main Jiggs on livestream and wifi. Diddys boring on livestream unless if its a tournament match or i'm going against another diddy. I'll use Jiggly then.

btw I beat ADHD's diddy with Jiggs

 

[Matador]

Five bucks says Sonic and Ike both drop. Three and a half hours till tier list.

 

[REL38]

Is the tier list gonna get a midnight release?

 

[Matador]

question: is the tier list coming out today at midnight or tomorrow sometime?

Tonight at midnight.

Place ur bets?

 

[fromundaman]

Five bucks says Sonic and Ike both drop. Three and a half hours till tier list.

Ike, probably. Sonic? I doubt it. I mean, he outplays his tier, and it's not like he can go much lower than he already was...

 

[Jenkins]

Bowser needs to move to SSS tier.

more like SSSS tier

he needs an extra tier between everyone else :

 

[Kewkky]

more like SSSS tier

he needs an extra tier between everyone else :

LOL a tier specifically for him in between everyone else? XD

*Votes for Tier C++*

 

[SuSa]

Since my first post in this series of posts, I was merely stating that Ike DOES win tournaments, and in the same post, I wrote that "I'm not talking about top-levels of play". If my point is absurdly stupid, then you trying to disprove my absurd (yet obviously true, according to your Captain Falcon line) statement, is even more absurd, as you are dragged by a conversation (i never intended to argue) in which you yourself think is not true. Changing my mind won't change Nigtendo's mind, and the points you're trying to prove are pretty vague, since you're forcing them down my throat when I'm just pointing a simple fact out to correct a single point you said.

Problem:

I'm certain every character has won at least 1 tournament. That means every character can win a tournament.

Second Problem:

Not all tournaments matter. If you have a school tournament filled with random scrubs and it's only 10-15 people it is far different then a regional tournament with Pro's that is 100+ people.

If an Ike wins a 16 man tournament, who cares? So he won what, 3 sets?

If an Ike wins a tournament with 100+ people, that'd be far different. He'd have to play more rounds, most likely in the semi-finals and finals they'd be playing a top player, and if they won people would actually care.


A) What point are you trying to make?
B) Why does it have to be specifically Ike?
C) Most people only care about the higher/top levels of play.

 

[Palpi]

Problem:

I'm certain every character has won at least 1 tournament. That means every character can win a tournament.

Second Problem:

Not all tournaments matter. If you have a school tournament filled with random scrubs and it's only 10-15 people it is far different then a regional tournament with Pro's that is 100+ people.

If an Ike wins a 16 man tournament, who cares? So he won what, 3 sets?

If an Ike wins a tournament with 100+ people, that'd be far different. He'd have to play more rounds, most likely in the semi-finals and finals they'd be playing a top player, and if they won people would actually care.


A) What point are you trying to make?
B) Why does it have to be specifically Ike?
C) Most people only care about the higher/top levels of play.

Thank you for making sense when I couldn't get my point across leet post!!!

 

[Jenkins]

LOL a tier specifically for him in between everyone else? XD

*Votes for Tier C++*

nah he's godly. puts mk to shame