Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Mad Duck]

How do you guys feel about your control with PKT -> PKT2 in terms of using in an actual match ?

Hm...kinda OK,I always move the stick in a full circle so I PKT2 diagonally,nothing out of the ordinary (I always try to sweetspot the ledge,not sure if good or bad)

 

[Neon Ness]

(I always try to sweetspot the ledge,not sure if good or bad)

Depends on what your opponent is doing. They might try to hang on to the edge at the last moment to make you bounce off the side to your death. Sometimes it's good to mix it up with aiming yourself slightly above the ledge so you'll land on the stage, you just have to try to predict your enemy's actions.

 

[Screk]

This is why I throw out random questions now lol

 

[yoshi8984]

My PKT2 over the stage is alright, though offstage I can only do a PKT2 Inverse Recovery (where you send it in FRONT of Ness) if I'm on the right. >__>

Though I can mix-up my PKT2 paths offstage when I have to recover.

 

[xoxokev]

I'm very confident with my PKT2. However I really only use it when I need to. If I can recover without it, I will. I also try to avoid recovering with it from below, it's way too predictable and can cost you a stock. I also like to mix it up and aim my PKT2 diagonally downwards when returning to the stage from above. When I do have to recover from below, depending on how close and quick my opponent is, I will either aim for the ledge or just above the stage. I also try to mix it up if I'm on a stage that you can pass through from under (Halberd or Delfino).

PKT is great for chasing down an offstage opponent. I usually do some circles around where I think he/she is going, and after they spot dodge (which they usually do) they get hit my the tail. If they just move away from it, that's fine because you can still control it towards their direction. I usually mix up PKT and PK Flash to throw off an opponents recovery. I prefer PK Flash because they honestly don't expect it and they go crazy when you hit them with a well timed fully charged PK Flash. My 2 cents.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFoWVa2uOA0 <- Old video about PK Thunder. It's worth watching =p

 

[Mad Duck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFoWVa2uOA0 <- Old video about PK Thunder. It's worth watching =p

That vid is so amazing, I lol'd with the end when I watched it for the first time

 

[Jamwa]

Oh we're talking about control control.

Yeah PKT is easy on Ness, as you can delay it for good results, or bait rambo's into your PKT2

I have never sui'd in a tournament (that wasn't due to it being a really hot day and my whole sweaty thumb slipped and i PsiFired to my death...................................................................................................................................................................................)

Its quite easy to mix up your direction, as in
doing it early and above the ledge, and either going for a platform, auto cancel or straight down at the ledge.
doing it side on and going for something similair above
doing it just a little under so that if someone gets up off the ledge to punish or hogs you it will hit them, and it they dont it autocancels (easiest on lucas)
doing it low and delaying to great effect

PKT harass on lucas can be annoying since it hits once then you're still controlling it and they can sometimes get down and hit you :/

 

[P.I.E.]

ummmmmmmmm.... can I be cocky and say perfect? I can miss myself, loop it back and still manage to recover when offstage.

That's broken.


If I'm facing an MK, wolf, mario, sonic, or marth using the apex stagelist, what stages do you you guys think would be good to use, and what stages should i avoid? all i know is that YI + sonic = NO. for me at least.

 

[Mad Duck]

Is it good to Fast Fall Ness' aerials? (In a Short Hop,for example)

 

[Eagleye893]

It mostly depends on the situation. Most of the time it won't be any more beneficial to fast-fall a short-hopped aerial than it would be to NOT fast-fall. Regular speed lets you do stuff like BAir > UAir, NAir > UAir, BAir > NAir, and FAir > Nair before hitting the ground (if you buffer the input of the aerial from your jump)

The only case in which it's good is for DAir.

Fast-falling Ness' aerials from any height HIGHER than a short-hop is good depending on the situation. Most of the time I'll use a fast-falled BAir and poke at the opponent's shield in a weird way. Other times, I'll drop down slowly and FAir around in a weird way. It more just depends on how you want your opponent to act or how you think they'll act which will cause you to vary your drop-speed at that point.

 

[PK Jibaku]

I'm new to the Ness boards and Smashboards.com in general, I just joined yesterday, and I too have a question about Ness.

Should I spam F-air vs a MK user? Some MK users that I play like to nado spam... :/ F-air > MK's nado, so I think spamming F-air is a good idea right?

Thanks! (I'm sorry if this is not where I'm supposed to post.)

 

[yoshi8984]

Well, spamming attacks mindlessly in general will get you punished. =P Use F-air often, but be smart and don't be too predictable with it.

I haven't played a Meta Knight, so I wouldn't know how F-air works against Nado. However, just do what works for you.

 

[PK Jibaku]

Well, spamming attacks mindlessly in general will get you punished. =P Use F-air often, but be smart and don't be too predictable with it.

I haven't played a Meta Knight, so I wouldn't know how F-air works against Nado. However, just do what works for you.

Thanks! I'll see what I can do!

 

[Jamwa]

Jibaku, it's definitely not about spamming, but more about spacing.
If you think he's going to use a nado, do a retreating fair, which is probably the safest move in this mu (mu = matchup).
dont think about using a move often, rather try to play reactive; this mu relies on you being better at spacing, reading and mind games than the mk

 

[Neon Ness]

I'm new to the Ness boards and Smashboards.com in general, I just joined yesterday, and I too have a question about Ness.

Should I spam F-air vs a MK user? Some MK users that I play like to nado spam... :/ F-air > MK's nado, so I think spamming F-air is a good idea right?

Thanks! (I'm sorry if this is not where I'm supposed to post.)

No, this is pretty much the best thread for you to ask questions. :D Welcome.

Echoing what the others said. Never 'spam' a move mindlessly, but if it works against the MK you're playing exploit it as long as you can until they adapt. You've got to figure out which of MK's options Fair works best against. I guess that goes for any move, really.

 

[Li'l Lethal]

I'm not particularly 'new' to the Smashboards, but this is my first post.
So, I'm a self-taught (only have been to 3 competitions so far; really enjoyed them though) Ness player who recently started going to competitions. In one of them, I faced against a Diddy Kong player who really made me struggle with all this banana-throwing mess. Anyhow, it might just be that I'm inexperienced since I haven't had matches against many players, but could I ask for some tips on Diddy Kong? Thanks.
P.S. Do Ness players usually pivot grab a lot or is it situational?

 

[Jamwa]

I'm not particularly 'new' to the Smashboards, but this is my first post.
So, I'm a self-taught (only have been to 3 competitions so far; really enjoyed them though) Ness player who recently started going to competitions. In one of them, I faced against a Diddy Kong player who really made me struggle with all this banana-throwing mess. Anyhow, it might just be that I'm inexperienced since I haven't had matches against many players, but could I ask for some tips on Diddy Kong? Thanks.
P.S. Do Ness players usually pivot grab a lot or is it situational?

If you see someone running at you and you predict a dash attack or dash grab, the best reaction is to Pivot grab, or SH and use an aerial of choice. Dair even works if you space it. This is a great tool against fast characters such as MK or sonic

Ive been playing in the scene for 10 months now, and I still cant beat some peoples diddy kongs, even though i can beat their main, MK.
Apparently it just takes time and practice to get used to, theory is nice, but once your in the match you'll probably get too disoriented to think about any of it.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

It's just a simple question : are there any characters U-Tilt isn't recommended against for juggling ? I know it works great on heavyweights and fast-fallers like DK or Falcon, but I want to know if there are some characters that can counter U-Tilt.

What I often do to get the opponent in my juggle string : fast-fall U-Air at low %, then 3 U-Tilts then I follow up depending where my opponent intends to go.

 

[PK Jibaku]

I'm not particularly 'new' to the Smashboards, but this is my first post.
So, I'm a self-taught (only have been to 3 competitions so far; really enjoyed them though) Ness player who recently started going to competitions. In one of them, I faced against a Diddy Kong player who really made me struggle with all this banana-throwing mess. Anyhow, it might just be that I'm inexperienced since I haven't had matches against many players, but could I ask for some tips on Diddy Kong? Thanks.
P.S. Do Ness players usually pivot grab a lot or is it situational?

One trick that I know vs a Diddy is to punish him when he trys to get a naner back... if the Diddy does a dash attack, I shield grab him. Lots of Diddy's like to get a naner with dash attack. :/ You grab him when his dash attack animation is ending. I don't know much about this MU so maybe what I just said won't work. I suggest looking at the Diddy MU thread.

Thank you everyone for the help on my Nado and F-air question!

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Diddy's Dash Attack has very little ending lag, which means you gotta be quick if you intend to shield-grab through his dash attack. I don't know much about that MU either, so don't take my comment as granted. ^^;

 

[PK Jibaku]

Diddy's Dash Attack has very little ending lag, which means you gotta be quick if you intend to shield-grab through his dash attack. I don't know much about that MU either, so don't take my comment as granted. ^^;

Well I can shield grab a Diddy 80% of the time... you have to grab at the very last second! Or else you'll get hit.

a little trick that I like to do is...

If the Diddy's damage % is over 130% try to get one of his naners an throw it at him, when he slips grab him and B-throw for a KO.

 

[xoxokev]

i actually use diddy as one of my secondaries, and i'm pretty comfortable playing with bananas, but if you're playing an experienced diddy, its probably best to just throw those bananas off the stage. you're best bet is to shield the thrown bananas and jump up and z grab them as they bounce off your shield, then either hold on to it or throw it away. even if youre a good ness player, theres almost no way you can use the bananas to your adv against a good diddy.

try your best to get him off stage and get rid of his double jump via aerial, tilt, or pkt. once he's below stage and recovering with up+b, get in his path and use nair. if you connect, he'll have almost no chance to recover. easy gimp.

as for pivot grabs, they are always situational no matter what the match up is. just play smart and be able to predict

It's just a simple question : are there any characters U-Tilt isn't recommended against for juggling ? I know it works great on heavyweights and fast-fallers like DK or Falcon, but I want to know if there are some characters that can counter U-Tilt.

What I often do to get the opponent in my juggle string : fast-fall U-Air at low %, then 3 U-Tilts then I follow up depending where my opponent intends to go.

if your opponent is at 0% you can utilt juggle them at least 2-3 times depending on the character, except jigglypuff (you can only do it once even at 0%)

 

[Jamwa]

Metaknight can also dair with good DI/SDI, dont use it against him often

 

[PK Jibaku]

Is there anyone that can train my Ness online...? I don't really like asking for help, but I really need to get good... I read all the guides on here, but I still have no luck...

 

[Flame Hyenard]

You are from Florida, which means we can brawl a bit without the lag being much of a hindrance (if you lived in California, we would feel it !).

PM me whenever you want to brawl me

 

[Mad Duck]

I'd like to play you but I live in Argentina,so I think we'll get a ton of lag ):

Umm,I have a question,Is it hard for Ness to do a Dtilt/Jab lock? because it is for me,when I Dair people (If we both are in the air) they are too far for me to do the Jab/Dtilt,should I go with a tech/roll chase if I'm far from the other player?

(I think I messed up writing,sorry for my english )

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Spamming Dtilt will inflict a lot of %s, but the opponent can DI away. I've brawled PK Jibaku earlier, and while you can jab lock by doing the first part of the A-A-A button combo, you can lock the opponent as long as he/she doesn't DI away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmZKA_OzS2o <- this might help

 

[PK Jibaku]

That video might help. I also sent my answer to Mad Duck, I don't know if he understood my grammar though. xP

 

[Jamwa]

That video will teach you everything there is to know.

Usually after the first pummel, the opponent is far away enough that you can tipper f-smash them (after charging it a bit). You can jab a few times, but you risk them DI'ing away and you might be unprepared

 

[Tikao]

What are good counterpicks against Falco Mk and Snake and which stages should i avoid?
against Falco i would say Lylat is a good counterpick i guess , but i have no idea against Snake or Mk
and i should avoid Yoshi's Island in general , but against Snake , i always think i should rather ban Battlefield (i hate that stage anyway^^)

Stages , which are allowed in Germany :

Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Smashville
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick Stages
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Pokémon Stadium 1
• Pokémon Stadium 2

brinstar and rainbow cruise are banned >_<

 

[yoshi8984]

Against Snake, you should ban Halberd. The stupidly low ceiling makes his U-Tilt kill at even lower %s. >__>
I would suggest striking Lylat, Battlefield and Smashville for starters against Snake.

For Falco, don't go to Battlefield. Lylat is nice against him; the tilting can screw up his lasers and his recovery. Frigate also causes him to be more careful when recovering too.

MK, I have no idea, never played one.

 

[Nido]

MK, I have no idea, never played one.

Lol that matchup is so fun to play, I take them to either FD or SV because they're the only good stages for Ness in my region, maybe BF if I can't repick either of them.

 

[Tikao]

The Ness-MK MU is funny (and without the grabrelease regrab it would be a good MU) but I'm very bad in that MU ... and like everyone has at least a pocket mk

MK, I have no idea, never played one.

and how is that possible xD

 

[yoshi8984]

Well then again I've only been to 2 tourneys and they were MK banned XD
(Though if I go to this next tourney it'll be Japan Ruleset with MK legal lol)

 

[Tikao]

not even in Freeplays? ... I've only been to one tourney , but in Germany mk is not banned , up to now double MK in teams is sometimes banned ... but not in that tourney I've visited xD ... got bracket ****ed in teams in that tourney anyway ... give the Ness-Newcomer the #1 and #6 ot the German Powerranking , and after that double DK ;_; ... sry , back to the Topic ... i had sooooooo many freeplays against him , i get better in that MU , but i have to train harder ... anyway , good luck against him

 

[Shaky]

What are good counterpicks against Falco Mk and Snake and which stages should i avoid?
against Falco i would say Lylat is a good counterpick i guess , but i have no idea against Snake or Mk
and i should avoid Yoshi's Island in general , but against Snake , i always think i should rather ban Battlefield (i hate that stage anyway^^)

Stages , which are allowed in Germany :

Starter Stages
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Smashville
• Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick Stages
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Pokémon Stadium 1
• Pokémon Stadium 2

brinstar and rainbow cruise are banned >_<

Snake:

Avoid FD, Halberd, YI, Lylat.

Go to SV, PS1, Delfino, PS2.

Falco:

Avoid FD, YI, Castle Siege, Halberd.

Go to SV, PS1, Delfino, PS2.

MK:

Avoid everything not mentioned below.

Go to FD, BF, SV, PS1, PS2, Delfino.

 

[Tikao]

wow thanks shaky ... but I've one question left , should i just ban a stage against mk , which is not FD , BF , SV , PS1 , PS2 and Delfino , or are there some stages , which are even worse than some others (even if all others are bad)?

 

[Jamwa]

I don't like BF that much vs MK because you cant Full Hop PK Fire as the platforms stop it, But BF can be great if you can utilize the platforms which i cant

 

[Tikao]

could there be something like a silent pk-fire ? (like falco's lazer) ... i've done something like that i think , but i wasn't able to record it ... it was like a landing lag cancelt pk-fire , but i'm not sure about that